Church Security

[Jeepnik]

Interestingly, I haven't seen any references to Jewish Temples. There are quite a few in my area.

Physical security is obvious. But their security teams are both overt (uniformed) and covert (the folks with the serious firepower).

Other churches, regardless of denomination, are way behind the curve. With one exception. The local Mormon, I think they also call those temples, is pretty tight. Then again considering the history of the abuse the Mormons have taken is similar to the Jews, just shorter.

How do I know this, you asked. Who do you think my churches non existent security team went to for advice?

 

[blume357]

I would expect most synagogs to be heavily armed right now....both covert and overt.... I know they would be targets but put a few guys outside with ARs....

 

[GunnyGene]

I'm going to have to defer to XUSNORDIE for the simple reason he obviously has actual experience in this. I have to admit I'm not comfortable being my churches security but the issue is no one else is stepping up. Ideally we would hire off duty police officers to stand guard but it aint' happening ...

I keep mentioning Ed Monk's book but I guess another way to look at it is he has only taken events that prove his point. I agree that most people should run away or hide... but then in most active shooter cases like the ones XUSNORDIE described it is just some idiot that really does not have a plan or clue, drunk and pissed off at one person is not the same as hyped and loaded with 300+ rounds of ammo with the one goal of killing as many people as they can before some one with a gun and trained to use it shows up.

I've thought too much about these things and if I was one of those 'with a plan' the first thing I would do is recon the place and then on 'D-Day' take out the security first.... I've always thought that with any campus security you would need at the very least two armed people and the first rule is they are never in the same place a the same time.

The big question that nobody want's to talk about is how much perimeter depth should you have, given the weapon tech available these days. Not every attacker is going to walk thru the front door and get in bad breath distance.

Layered security is expensive and the further you push your security perimeter out the more expensive it gets. Our problem with foreign adversaries is a good ( extreme) example. Just for Iran it's costing over $1billion per day.

 

[kmoore]

It's been over 10 years ago when the Secretary of State of Oregon (person 2nd in charge in OR. government) reached out to me and others to attempt to form a group of retired cops to provide free armed security at schools. Sounds good for a solution to keep schools safe, right?
After about 2 months it was stopped. Nothings free and no funds were available besides teachers' union didn't support it.
Here's some of the problems: Training, at least the instructors need to be paid, and funds needed for the venue. Also, background and physical testing needed to be done to the free help. To maintain continuity some full-time workers (supervisors) were needed. The big deal, liability coverage for the retired cops doing the free work. We agreed no one would do it without being protected from possible lawsuits. The "what if's" were nearly endless regarding legal protection.
Examples of big problems: A student filing a civil or criminal charge etc and we did not even get to the use of a firearm to save the kids. Who would be responsible for all costs (legal and otherwise) of any stray bullet? Even if the charges were unfounded A retired cop doing free work for a good cause could lose their house over legal costs.
For church security armed and unarmed, liability is still an issue.

 

[Jeepnik]

It's been over 10 years ago when the Secretary of State of Oregon (person 2nd in charge in OR. government) reached out to me and others to attempt to form a group of retired cops to provide free armed security at schools. Sounds good for a solution to keep schools safe, right?
After about 2 months it was stopped. Nothings free and no funds were available besides teachers' union didn't support it.
Here's some of the problems: Training, at least the instructors need to be paid, and funds needed for the venue. Also, background and physical testing needed to be done to the free help. To maintain continuity some full-time workers (supervisors) were needed. The big deal, liability coverage for the retired cops doing the free work. We agreed no one would do it without being protected from possible lawsuits. The "what if's" were nearly endless regarding legal protection.
Examples of big problems: A student filing a civil or criminal charge etc and we did not even get to the use of a firearm to save the kids. Who would be responsible for all costs (legal and otherwise) of any stray bullet? Even if the charges were unfounded A retired cop doing free work for a good cause could lose their house over legal costs.
For church security armed and unarmed, liability is still an issue.

While not the main reason, but certainly a consideration, this is why we don't have a security team at my church now. Wink wink.

 

[blume357]

Yep, I hate to say it once you get lawyers and insurance folks involved there is only one answer, don't do anything and keep your head buried in the sand and just pray......

as for Gunny Gene's remarks about "the perimeter... I know what he means... when I first got on our safety team I printed out an aerial map with different places that were perfect for a sniper... I guess the next step should have been places to put people to be able to dispose of a sniper... but the reality is there is only so much you can do.