Just wondering about this, and not out to criticize. It seems like there are a number of newer (last 20 years maybe?) churches I see around as I travel, that have a "dynamic" one-word name. Some I’ve noticed are Discover, Catalyst, Orchard, and Vertical. It makes me think of some of those TV preachers from years ago that turned out to be scammers. I hope these that I see around here are legitimate….
Church business model?
- Thread starter NC FNS
- Start date
There are a lot of new age progressive type churches around Dallas and Plano. Some really massive churches that must have thousands of members. Not my style at all.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
"One mans theology is another mans belly laugh." R. Heinlein
Well, freedom of religion was one of the founding principles of our nation. As long as you aren't hurting anyone call yourself anything you want.
I've seen some around lately. Doesn't much matter to me what the name is, it's the message that counts. I went to one of the big megachurches that's not far from me and I didn't care for the message at all. Seemed to be about making sure you were giving enough to the church, with the pastor mentioning his book several times. I was not impressed with that one.
And the sign says "Everybody, welcome, come in, kneel down and pray"
But then they passed around a plate at the end of it all
And I didn't have a penny to pay
So I got me a pen and a paper
And I made up my own little sign
I said, "Thank you, Lord, for thinking about me
I'm alive and doing fine", oh.....
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2012
- Messages
- 10,877
Their business model is to separate people from their money.
I go to Church but I don’t give money, the Catholic church has plenty of money already. Plus they are anti gun.
If they went out of business it wouldn’t affect my relationship with God one iota.
There is a Church in Roxbury called Jubilee. Their service is so loud you can hear it from outside. Sounds like a concert. Much more of a social event than a service. Nothing wrong with that as long as God is front and center.
I go to Church but I don’t give money, the Catholic church has plenty of money already. Plus they are anti gun.
If they went out of business it wouldn’t affect my relationship with God one iota.
There is a Church in Roxbury called Jubilee. Their service is so loud you can hear it from outside. Sounds like a concert. Much more of a social event than a service. Nothing wrong with that as long as God is front and center.
Western Christianity is filled with fraudsters, scammers, con men, liars, cheaters, thieves, backstabbers, and hypocrites. Especially the ones that supposedly "speak in tongues"
I gave up years ago trying to find an honest group to join. From my experience many pastors/ ministers are completely full of poopoo.
The focus almost always gradually drifted from the Word of God and towards money
I gave up years ago trying to find an honest group to join. From my experience many pastors/ ministers are completely full of poopoo.
The focus almost always gradually drifted from the Word of God and towards money
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bobski
Hunter
judge not lest ye be judged my friends.
leave the judging to THE judge.
take care of that log, he will take care of the twigs.
money is a tool. everyone needs it.
that includes church groups.
the last person in the world i want to rob is G-D.
if he tells me 10%, he gets 10%. more if i can.
what the entrusting elders do with it.....G-D holds accountable.
you think mafia is strict with money? try robbing G-D someday. he never forgets a debt.
leave the judging to THE judge.
take care of that log, he will take care of the twigs.
money is a tool. everyone needs it.
that includes church groups.
the last person in the world i want to rob is G-D.
if he tells me 10%, he gets 10%. more if i can.
what the entrusting elders do with it.....G-D holds accountable.
you think mafia is strict with money? try robbing G-D someday. he never forgets a debt.
God the Creator owns all the wealth on this planet. We are just custodians for a short period. Tithing is not 10%. That figure is taken from Abraham and King Melchizedek of Salem from the Old Testament. It was 10% of the spoils of war. Abraham defeated his enemies and took all their cattle, grain, oil, gold, silver, etc (and slaves)....and offered 10% to the King of Salem (before it became known as Jerusalem)
It happened one time in the Old Testament.
The tribes of Israel were commanded by The Creator to give 10% to the tribe of Levi. That is because the tribe of Levi were the priestly class. They served The Creator and were forbidden to own livestock or grow crops. The other tribes were to feed and care for the Levites.
If you want to tithe there is no set standard (ask a practicing Jew if you need clarification). You tithe whatever you heart tells you to tithe. Also it doesn't have to be money. It can be food, shelter, your time, your knowledge, your skills. Most people tithe money because it's easy and the modern church can't pay for the high fees for Christian rock groups if your tithe a chicken, a cow, or two bags of wheat.
The paster needs a new Range Rover and you can't make payments with a sacrificial goat or sheep.
Jesus (Yeshua) only spoke once about tithing and he was chastising the temple priests for their hypocrisy. It is mentioned twice in two Gospels.
Luke 11:42:
Matthew 23:23:
It happened one time in the Old Testament.
The tribes of Israel were commanded by The Creator to give 10% to the tribe of Levi. That is because the tribe of Levi were the priestly class. They served The Creator and were forbidden to own livestock or grow crops. The other tribes were to feed and care for the Levites.
If you want to tithe there is no set standard (ask a practicing Jew if you need clarification). You tithe whatever you heart tells you to tithe. Also it doesn't have to be money. It can be food, shelter, your time, your knowledge, your skills. Most people tithe money because it's easy and the modern church can't pay for the high fees for Christian rock groups if your tithe a chicken, a cow, or two bags of wheat.
The paster needs a new Range Rover and you can't make payments with a sacrificial goat or sheep.
Jesus (Yeshua) only spoke once about tithing and he was chastising the temple priests for their hypocrisy. It is mentioned twice in two Gospels.
Luke 11:42:
Matthew 23:23:
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I returned to 'the church' because I realized I needed to give back to my community in some kind of way and the one I go to does that. Yes, it's about as liberal as one can get. I actually don't get involved in their active community projects but I support and help maintain the building. The building which is relatively new is a monstrosity that is in constant need of maintenance.... Also, I show up on Sunday and never attend the service, I'm outside or in the foyer just watching the folks come in and go out.
Sounds like some are seeing the $$$ side of religion. :oops: :unsure:
we've got some of those of what I see as new big Mega churches here in my area too... seems like one of the pastors in the last year or so made the news when he bought his wife a Ferrari or such....
but then for the last 1500 years or so most of the Christian religion has been about the dollars... Look at why Martin Luther nailed the paper on the door of the church.... The big money back then was paying the church to get your dead relatives out of purgatory and into heaven.... and he happened to venture down to Rome and saw how that money was being spent.
but then for the last 1500 years or so most of the Christian religion has been about the dollars... Look at why Martin Luther nailed the paper on the door of the church.... The big money back then was paying the church to get your dead relatives out of purgatory and into heaven.... and he happened to venture down to Rome and saw how that money was being spent.
When the most expensive vehicle in the church parking lot on Sunday morning was driven by the preacher???
Man you hit the nail square on the head with your statement. At the risk of offending the genuinely faithful I have been screwed more by people claiming to be "Good Christians" than any other kind.Western Christianity is filled with fraudsters, scammers, con men, liars, cheaters, thieves, backstabbers, and hypocrites. Especially the ones that supposedly "speak in tongues"
I gave up years ago trying to find an honest group to join. From my experience many pastors/ ministers are completely full of poopoo.
The focus almost always gradually faded from the Word of God and towards money
I have several friends who are Pastors of small churches and I am willing to help them with anything that I can. I don't attend any particular church but I have looked at the HVACR systems and boilers in a bunch of different churches.
My wife and much of her family are very devout Catholics and the churches they attend are having great financial difficulties due to sexual abuse settlements.
The 3 parishes that they attend are being whacked with an 80% confiscation of their church funds to help pay for the misdeeds of priests who never served in their churches.
It doesn't look like the Vatican is going to kick in with anything to help pay off claims. No Vaseline for parishioners....
GasGuzzler
Hawkeye
We have one that popped up out of nowhere. Bought an abandoned retail site and built a giant building. Now there are traffic problems on Sunday morning.
My problem with the idea is that they make it very difficult to discover their affiliation (if there is one but there usually is because of the money) and nearly impossible to find their set of beliefs written down anywhere. This makes me feel like it's a nebulous, floating and wandering target. And that sounds like a scam.
My problem with the idea is that they make it very difficult to discover their affiliation (if there is one but there usually is because of the money) and nearly impossible to find their set of beliefs written down anywhere. This makes me feel like it's a nebulous, floating and wandering target. And that sounds like a scam.
PinnedAndRecessed
Single-Sixer
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2006
- Messages
- 269
To all: be advised. Religion is huge business attracting some of the most unethical con artists on earth. They prosper because people are simple. And they will pimp whatever product will sell.
Sesame street ish entertainment sells. Bands, flashing lights, whatever. And simple minded people go, wanting, craving that it's the answer to their cheap interpretation of what Jesus Christ is.
And the con artists prosper because they pimp exactly what the simpletons are looking for, viz. easy, lackadaisical "religion" that requires zero obedience and minimal effort.
I'm reminded of this: Matt 15:8-9: This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
All the above is not Christianity. The above is absolutely, diametrically opposed to Christ's teachings, such as: Matt 16:24: Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
The cross is not a piece of jewelry, nor is it an item of luxurious easy faith. It it an instrument of sacrifice, and any Christianity that is "easy?" It needs to be examined in light of revealed New Testament scripture.
Sesame street ish entertainment sells. Bands, flashing lights, whatever. And simple minded people go, wanting, craving that it's the answer to their cheap interpretation of what Jesus Christ is.
And the con artists prosper because they pimp exactly what the simpletons are looking for, viz. easy, lackadaisical "religion" that requires zero obedience and minimal effort.
I'm reminded of this: Matt 15:8-9: This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
All the above is not Christianity. The above is absolutely, diametrically opposed to Christ's teachings, such as: Matt 16:24: Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
The cross is not a piece of jewelry, nor is it an item of luxurious easy faith. It it an instrument of sacrifice, and any Christianity that is "easy?" It needs to be examined in light of revealed New Testament scripture.
Yaworski
Hawkeye
My parish priest worked two part time jobs to makes ends meet, so not all priests get paid a lot.
I view all religion with great skepticism. It's in the book so it must be true! How do we know that? Because it's in the book. My book is true and your book is false. You must believe the book because some guy over a thousand years ago wrote it and told someone that it is the truth and that person told someone who told someone.
Basically organized religion is you paying someone with no marketable skills to tell you how to live your life based on a two thousand year old book of questionable origin.
Western Christianity evolved from the writings of Martin Luther, a German Catholic monk.
He translated the Latin Catholic Bible into High German.
This infuriated the Catholic Church. The church did not want the ignorant masses to see what was actually written in the Bible.
The Catholic Church was/is all about controlling the ignorant masses. Translating the Bible from Latin into any other language was strickly forbidden under penalty of death.
So, western Christianity evolved from a Catholic based ideology, not an ideology based on Judaism.
So. Was Jesus a Christian or a Jew?
All the Apostles were Jews except for Luke (Lucus) who was Greek (Gentile)
Yet modern Chrisians know absolutely nothing about Judaism.
This was done on purpose.
He translated the Latin Catholic Bible into High German.
This infuriated the Catholic Church. The church did not want the ignorant masses to see what was actually written in the Bible.
The Catholic Church was/is all about controlling the ignorant masses. Translating the Bible from Latin into any other language was strickly forbidden under penalty of death.
So, western Christianity evolved from a Catholic based ideology, not an ideology based on Judaism.
So. Was Jesus a Christian or a Jew?
All the Apostles were Jews except for Luke (Lucus) who was Greek (Gentile)
Yet modern Chrisians know absolutely nothing about Judaism.
This was done on purpose.
Top ten wealthiest "Christian" pastors/ ministers:
1) Bishop David Oyedepo $150 million
2) Bishop T.D. Jakes $147 million
3) Pastor Chris Oyakhilome $108 million.
4) Pastor Benny Hinn $90 million.
5) Pastor Joel Osteen $80 million.
6) Pastor Creflo Dollar $65 million.
7) Pastor Kenneth Copeland $60 million.
8) Pastor David Yonggi Cho $55 million.
9) Pastor Rick Warren $50 million.
10) Pastor Joyce Meyer $47 million.
......and the list goes on, and on, and on
1) Bishop David Oyedepo $150 million
2) Bishop T.D. Jakes $147 million
3) Pastor Chris Oyakhilome $108 million.
4) Pastor Benny Hinn $90 million.
5) Pastor Joel Osteen $80 million.
6) Pastor Creflo Dollar $65 million.
7) Pastor Kenneth Copeland $60 million.
8) Pastor David Yonggi Cho $55 million.
9) Pastor Rick Warren $50 million.
10) Pastor Joyce Meyer $47 million.
......and the list goes on, and on, and on
This is Joel Osteen's house in Texas.
17,000 square feet, 6 bedrooms and 6 bathrooms.
He bought it 2010 for $10.5 million.
17,000 square feet, 6 bedrooms and 6 bathrooms.
He bought it 2010 for $10.5 million.
I wonder who sweeps his chimneys?
Even though I see a lot of hypocrisy in religion and often in folks in the public eye that claim to follow their chosen faith I still have great respect for people who are spiritual and 'religious'.
Even though I see a lot of hypocrisy in religion and often in folks in the public eye that claim to follow their chosen faith I still have great respect for people who are spiritual and 'religious'.
THe churches I ee are Lif Church, Christ Fellowship and Calvary Chapel. I think there is a trend to disassociate with the sy=tandrad denomination names bevue so many kids don't want to be associated with the folk's religion. And sometimes with good reason. Our church is a PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) but on the church it says Christ Community Church, We did it because Presbyterian doesn't mean much to anybody, but a body of the believers that strive to chow Chrost to a community they are in is more really more descriptive of the mission of the church. Remember, the Church are those saved from Gods judgement by faith in Christ and his substitutionary death on the cross and resurrection to life. Perfect far from it, just read the letters Paul wrote to the early church Lots of problems getting their arms around the life God wants but redeemed by Christ just the same.
T D Jakes recently step down due to his health.
His daughter and son in law are now leading the Potter House.
Many of these mega churches and false teachers (pastors) teach something called the "prosperity gospel".
They never talk about sin and repentance. They talk about having a "good life filled with Gods love and wealth".
They make The Creator look like a big ATM machine in the sky, just waiting to shower you with money and worldly possessions.
Want a new Mercedes? Just pray for it and pay your tithe to the church.
Want a bigger house? Just tell God you're a good person and he may just give you a big house.
It's really sickening but this type of gospel appeals to people's greed and attracts the ignorant like flys to honey.
Also dont forget the Federal tax exempt status of religious entities.
They never talk about sin and repentance. They talk about having a "good life filled with Gods love and wealth".
They make The Creator look like a big ATM machine in the sky, just waiting to shower you with money and worldly possessions.
Want a new Mercedes? Just pray for it and pay your tithe to the church.
Want a bigger house? Just tell God you're a good person and he may just give you a big house.
It's really sickening but this type of gospel appeals to people's greed and attracts the ignorant like flys to honey.
Also dont forget the Federal tax exempt status of religious entities.
Yaworski
Hawkeye
Damn! That pool house looks to be bigger than my house house.
