Church Security

[Fox Mike]

Blume357 mentioned the book, the "First 30 Seconds", that should be made 'mandatory reading' for any and all in charge of anywhere a gathering of individuals occurs. I would almost bet that if an 'episode' happened in church, and I pulled a discretely concealed pistol and terminated the threat, that most would be thankful as opposed to want to jail me.

 

[xTopGun]

Contender, it isn't the Archbishop with the military guard. Although I am pretty sure he does have armed security he has a driver and an assistant with him whenever he goes out. I know that the assistant is armed.

I was speaking about the Pope. Many may recall an attempt on the life of the then Pope and the popemobile that resulted. When the increased threats to churches began to occur some folks thought this was rather hypocritical. But then, whether a political or religious leader all seemed to be more concerned about their personal security than those they lead.

I'm betting JFK wishes he'd kept the top on .....

 

[Huskerguy72]

I am part of our church security team. It is a very complicated situation in our case. First, the insurance company discourages it and then they have their requirements that are ridiculous. One is your local police department has to approve and sign off on your plan. I called the police and they just said, we don't do that. So now you are left with a bunch of people who have CC permits. That's great, most wouldn't be a threat to an elderly lady with a walker. In the end, each person ends of being pretty much on their own as if you say that you are part of the security team and anyone mentions firearms, you just implicated the church. The other issue like some have said on here is just the size and openness of churches. We have around 200 people and I have attended churches 3 to 4 times larger. Then you likely have multiple entrances and also multiple entrances into the sanctuary. In our church we can get to know most people coming through our doors but there is that person you don't know. I became convinced after multiple meetings and drills that the last place I would ever want to get into a fire fight is a church with so many people everywhere. Ultimately for ME I have already decided if I can, I am going to try and take the person down physically rather than risk shooting into a large room with panicked people.

 

[GypsmJim]

My solution is to avoid churches except for wedding, funerals, and Lenten fish frys.

Our DIL belongs to a congregation in GA. The Pastor does an online service every Sunday. We were introduced to him one Sunday when we were visiting my son and family, who do not currently live in GA.

I must say that he is more inspirational than any catlick priest I ever knew. We now watch "The Free Chapel" every Sunday. Donating online is also easier than scrounging up cash when the hat is passed.

We did not chose to go this route because of safety and security (although it does apply), but rather because because our faith was restored after many years of clergy abuse.

 

[Sam Summey]

We aren't allowed, by the "regional" church officials to have armed parishioners. We did but were forced to disband.
That's our story and we are sticking to it.

However, yesterday day after mass a group of folks, who coincidentally happened to have been members of our merry band had lunch and this topic came up.

Seemed some of the guys and gals have decided to have heavier weapons available "nearby", but not on church property.

Other people thought an even more deeply layered approach their individual security is needed.

Since 1995 I have not been to a church that I wasn't armed. I sit on the back row in the corner watching the center entrance, and opposite corner. I am able to observe the diagonal corner beside the chancel and the aisle that leads to the other side of the chancel. I don't discuss what is concealed about my body with anyone. Don't ask, don't tell.

 

[eveled]

I’m pretty much convinced if you are prepared nothing will happen. If you are not prepared Murphy’s law applies.

Odds are in your favor it won’t be your church and if it is, it won’t be the service you attend.

I have lived my life trying to use Murphy’s law to my advantage.

 

[warren5421]

Since being a teen I can't remember not being armed. The Paster follows church doctrine where I go. It is interesting as just this Sunday I counted 19 pistols. Some of the people carring I wouldn't think they would be armed. If the paster would say something to me, my money and I would not set foot in it again!

 

[Yaworski]

I'm sure that if I was still a church goer the priest at my wife's Episcolopian church would be aghast at the idea of a gun in the church as would the priest at my Russian Orthodox church.

 

[Randyzzz]

I am part of our church security team. It is a very complicated situation in our case. First, the insurance company discourages it and then they have their requirements that are ridiculous. One is your local police department has to approve and sign off on your plan. I called the police and they just said, we don't do that. So now you are left with a bunch of people who have CC permits. That's great, most wouldn't be a threat to an elderly lady with a walker. In the end, each person ends of being pretty much on their own as if you say that you are part of the security team and anyone mentions firearms, you just implicated the church. The other issue like some have said on here is just the size and openness of churches. We have around 200 people and I have attended churches 3 to 4 times larger. Then you likely have multiple entrances and also multiple entrances into the sanctuary. In our church we can get to know most people coming through our doors but there is that person you don't know. I became convinced after multiple meetings and drills that the last place I would ever want to get into a fire fight is a church with so many people everywhere. Ultimately for ME I have already decided if I can, I am going to try and take the person down physically rather than risk shooting into a large room with panicked people.

Sounds like you have thought it through. I will agree, any armed response will be severely hindered by parishioners not getting down and staying down.

It has been said that at our church you can figure about 50% of the parishioners are carrying at every service. Makes for an interesting “what if”. We have someone at the front door and one on either side in the back. The guy stationed up front has a monitor for all the perimeter cameras and a remote door lock. We all have radios with earpieces. We are lucky- only one entrance at our campus.

 

[bobski]

went to visit a church back east and 75% of the membership watches service on line - live feed.
weird feeling listening to the pastor welcoming his members on line....and the place was empty.

 

[eveled]

How do they receive communion online? I know there are Eucharistic ministers for those who are home bound.

 

[Jeepnik]

I'm betting JFK wishes he'd kept the top on .....

Different time.

 

[Yaworski]

How do they receive communion online? I know there are Eucharistic ministers for those who are home bound.

Virtual wine and wafers.

 

[xTopGun]

Different time.

that's what "Abe" thought too .....

 

[bobski]

the rcc must bless the sacriments.
same with some orthodox churches.
the gospel churches allow any wine or juice and any bread to partake.

 

[Yaworski]

the rcc must bless the sacriments.
same with some orthodox churches.

It's called "consecration" and no reason you can't do virtual consecration, after all this is the 21st century.

 

[Yaworski]

A acquaintance who is a catholic priest told me during COVID that his church was holding services in the parking lot. Like a drive-in, you'd tune your FM radio to a given station and for communion, the communion folks would just walk from car to car.

 

[bobski]

when i was in the hospital for 5 months, i use to watch the rcc channel and received communion make believe. i didnt have anything bedside. i knew G-D understood, considering my injury and my situation.
one thing they did on the rcc channel was they had a prayer flash up that could be prayed for those unable to be in church, during communion portion of the service.

when i was moved to the nursing home, my ordained layman friend i met at my shoot and hoot matches, came with blessed sacriments and gave me communion bedside when he could.
my mother once told me that you can tell your true friends when they visit you in the hospital.
he fit the description.

 

[Jeepnik]

Well, this just took a sharp turn into a theological discussion.

Communion is just a ceremony where one reaffirms what is in their heart. An expression of one's belief. The ceremony isn't what matters. How it's conducted isn't what matters. It's what's in your heart that matters.

Now back to the original topic.

 

[Johnny-Baseball]

How do they receive communion online? I know there are Eucharistic ministers for those who are home bound.

Just like Andy Griffith used to encourage. A Ritz cracker and Welch's grape juice.

 

[LAH]

Most people are armed here, in & out of Church. The larger ones have plans & teams. The smaller ones have people who watch. Most the small ones lock the doors at service time.

 

[blume357]

As many of you suspect I attend probably the most liberal house of worship here in town... many of you would be disgusted but it is the reality. And many of the members are the most anti gun folks ever.. but at the same time I've discovered some are just the opposite... in fact the members of our very small safety team actually have had several off site seminars... we go to a member's private range and practice....
I fully understand some of the pacifist beliefs of do no harm ever.... but here is the problem I have... I think one has the right if a mad man is coming at you to kill you to choose to do nothing and not fight if that is your core belief... but if there are children or others behind you that will be next then I personally think you have the obligation to do everything you can to stop that person... even if it means giving up your life to do it.
It's just how I was raised

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

I don't think that churches have as much to worry about compared to synagogues and mosques. I did see the local synagogue had extra police security last night when I passed. I am NOT saying churches are safe, only that they may face lesser risk- at least right now. Malls and main street retail strips, on the other hand......

 

[M118LR]

Well the greater your belief the more hypocritical it seems to be armed in the house of the Lord who looks after us all. Guess it's a good thing I'm a cafeteria Catholic?

 

[xTopGun]

just wondering, since God isn't allowed in the public schools maybe that's why so many school are not being protected by him..... hmmmm

 

[bigbillyboy]

No one at my church knows I'm armed. To me that's what concealed carry means.

This right here ... ... Don't wait for someone else , defend yourself....

 

[eveled]

Well the greater your belief the more hypocritical it seems to be armed in the house of the Lord who looks after us all. Guess it's a good thing I'm a cafeteria Catholic?

Peter had a sword.

 

[peachhead]

Agree 100%

Im not even sure about fish fry any more. Last one i went to the fish was burnt.

In the South, burning the fish will get you kicked OUT of the church

 

[peachhead]

I fully understand some of the pacifist beliefs of do no harm ever.... but here is the problem I have... I think one has the right if a mad man is coming at you to kill you to choose to do nothing and not fight if that is your core belief... but if there are children or others behind you that will be next then I personally think you have the obligation to do everything you can to stop that person... even if it means giving up your life to do it.
It's just how I was raised

100% agree. You don't have to have the obligation to protect yourself but you do for others.

I don't care if the archbishop, or the pope, or whoever doesn't like it. If I want to be armed, I will be. If I am part of a church security team then at least one member will be armed.

 

[eveled]

In the South, burning the fish will get you kicked OUT of the church

Must have been a Cajun running the fryolator