Church Security

[MaxMan]

This war started on Ramadan. The boys of Biden (sleeper cells) and lone wolf crazies are out there. I see Easter as a perfect time to get back at the infidels. I hope churches beef up their security.
Anyone who has any kind of a security responsibility, I would like to hear your comments. And others Even agnostics, atheist or deist

 

[Jeepnik]

We aren't allowed, by the "regional" church officials to have armed parishioners. We did but were forced to disband.
That's our story and we are sticking to it.

However, yesterday day after mass a group of folks, who coincidentally happened to have been members of our merry band had lunch and this topic came up.

Seemed some of the guys and gals have decided to have heavier weapons available "nearby", but not on church property.

Other people thought an even more deeply layered approach their individual security is needed.

 

[badguybuster]

Forewarned is forearmed. We need more militant christians

 

[GunnyGene]

We aren't allowed, by the "regional" church officials to have armed parishioners. We did but were forced to disband.
That's our story and we are sticking to it.

However, yesterday day after mass a group of folks, who coincidentally happened to have been members of our merry band had lunch and this topic came up.

Seemed some of the guys and gals have decided to have heavier weapons available "nearby", but not on church property.

Other people thought an even more deeply layered approach their individual security is needed.

Do what you gotta do, and don't look back.

 

[hittman]

Reach out to blume357. I think he’s in charge of security at his church and has lots of experience. If I’m wrong somebody will let me know.

 

[GunnyGene]

This war started on Ramadan. The boys of Biden (sleeper cells) and lone wolf crazies are out there. I see Easter as a perfect time to get back at the infidels. I hope churches beef up their security.
Anyone who has any kind of a security responsibility, I would like to hear your comments. And others Even agnostics, atheist or deist

I don't have the responsibility, but we do have a Church Protection Act in MS that many have implemented. This is only part of it, other statues expand on it.

MS - Mississippi Code of 1972 Annotated Miss. Code Ann. § 45-9-171

Title 45. Public Safety and Good Order > Chapter 9. Weapons > Chapter 9. Mississippi Church Protection Act

(1) This section shall be known and may be cited as the “Mississippi Church Protection Act.” (2) (a) The governing body of any church or place of worship may establish a security program by which designated members are authorized to carry firearms for the protection of the congregation of the church or place of worship, including resisting any unlawful attempt to commit a violent felony listed in Section 97-3-2(1) upon a member or other attendee in the church or place of worship or on the immediate premises thereof. A church or place of worship may establish a security program ...

... Miss. Code Ann. § 45-9-171 Mississippi Mississippi Church Protection Act; security program requirements. § 45-9-171. (1) This section shall be known and may be cited as the “Mississippi Church Protection Act.” (2) (a) The governing body of any church or place of worship may establish a security program by which designated members are authorized to carry firearms for the protection of the... ... congregation of the church or place of worship, including resisting any unlawful attempt to commit a violent felony listed in Section 97-3-2(1) upon a member or other attendee in the church or place of worship or on the immediate premises thereof. A church or place of worship may establish a security program that meets the requirements of subsection (2)(b)... ... of this section, and a member of the security program shall be immune from civil liability for any action taken by a member of the security program if the action in question occurs during the reasonable exercise of and within the course and scope of the member’s official duties as a member of the security program for the church or place of worship. For purposes of this section... ... incident in which the member used a firearm while acting as a member of the security program; and (iii) The member of the program who is claiming immunity under the provisions of this section must have met the requirements of this paragraph (b). (3) A person who is indicted or charged with a violation of criminal law while acting as a member of a security program of a church or place of... ... July 1, 2019; Laws, 2020, ch. 398, § 1 , eff from and after passage (approved June 29, 2020). Public Safety and Good Order Title 45. Weapons Chapter 9. Mississippi Church Protection Act...

 

[Mike J]

In Georgia it is legal to carry in church if the church allows it. I was on a church security team of sorts, but it was not really organized. They let the ushers do all the meet & greet type stuff. They just wanted discreetly armed & aware members present so that if a situation did arise someone would be prepared.

 

[Kevin]

Around DFW I see many churches and schools putting up tall metal perimeter fences. Most have Rolling gates and security guards. One main entrance.

I don’t know if the security guards are armed or not. I bet they are.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

It’s my observation that most churches have little to inadequate security. I’ve been in a couple of churches that have extremely high layers of security. High levels of security if appropriately activated is layered security. To get into the sanctuary involves getting past a minimum of 2 layers of security. That would be having friendly and well trained security to greet people at the doors prior to entering the building. Secondly another layer of security at each door prior to getting into the sanctuary part.
Next adequately trained people at those doors who are DISCREETLY armed that can access people who are unknown and appear to be concealing anything. It’s not as difficult as it sounds. In general people are creatures of habit. They typically go to the same church Sunday after Sunday, they typically enter the same door coming into the building, and into the Sanctuary. If security people don’t have adequate training with ideas of what to look for they are useless. They must have access to communication that brings backup immediately to what ever location has someone suspicious. That is extremely important, because if you have backup it can be an adequate show of strength that makes it less tempting to try and push forward if they have bad intentions.
The last church we went to in Idaho no one had any idea what security was. Unbelievably a police officer was in charge, and he didn’t even carry a gun. His answer to everything was to fallback and call the police. He was more accustomed to showing up after the crime was committed. I bowed out and was satisfied to come to church armed with the knowledge of the pastor.

 

[gjgalligan]

Seemed some of the guys and gals have decided to have heavier weapons available "nearby", but not on church property.

That just doesn't make any sense to me.
Kinda like locking your home defense gun in the safe before you go to bed.

 

[Jeepnik]

That just doesn't make any sense to me.
Kinda like locking your home defense gun in the safe before you go to bed.

Goes to layered protection. when we had a team they were just inside the building. But it could be some folks are outside with more effective very close at hand. We have to keep the Archbishop happy after all. He doesn't allow protection for his sheep. But strangely his boss has an entire military guard unit to provide for his security. Hey, wait a minute, that sounds like every other politician.

 

[contender]

It's sad that we even have to discuss going armed, putting up fences, adding security forces etc to just go to church.

But it's the way things have evolved over the last few decades.

If people do not believe we are at war within our own USA borders,, they are viewing things from under the sand their head is stuck into.

It's BECAUSE of the wide open borders, the ease at which so many people from other Countries,, that actually HATE the USA & what we have or what we stand for,, that has brought us to this point.

It's also truly sad that; "We aren't allowed, by the "regional" church officials to have armed parishioners. We did but were forced to disband."
AND yet; "He doesn't allow protection for his sheep. But strangely his boss has an entire military guard unit to provide for his security."

I don't care what faith it is,, or where it is. If I was to attend that church & wasn't allowed a way to protect myself & my family,, I would find a different church, different religion, or just stop going to an organized church & worship on my own.

Big wars are often preceded by smaller battles or attacks. We are witnessing small battles & such all over this Country.

 

[M118LR]

As a Knight of Columbus there is no questioning if I attend Mass while concealed carrying. Perhaps it's my military background, or maybe the Churches proximity to the NAS, but since several other members of the congregation are also ex- LEO and CCW at services that allow the members to comfortably attend services freely?

 

[Jeepnik]

I don't care what faith it is,, or where it is. If I was to attend that church & wasn't allowed a way to protect myself & my family,, I would find a different church, different religion, or just stop going to an organized church & worship on my own

Perhaps we stay because our faith is strong. Because we believe that no one will drive us from our chosen religion. And although the world is full of idiots, it doesn't mean we have to follow them.

 

[ex13F]

No one at my church knows I'm armed. To me that's what concealed carry means.

 

[M118LR]

No one at my church knows I'm armed. To me that's what concealed carry means.

Since I am a member of "The Church" responsible for numerous Crusades, perhaps the parishioners comprehend the need for armed members! Or maybe it's just the mindset of folks in Florida?

 

[ex13F]

Since I am a member of "The Church" responsible for numerous Crusades, perhaps the parishioners comprehend the need for armed members! Or maybe it's just the mindset of folks in Florida?

We hope that more people wake up or "comprehend the need".

 

[Larryburford]

A 380 in the pocket is better than the rifle at the house.

 

[Randyzzz]

At our last church, I was asked by the pastor to assemble and lead a security team. It was basically a situation where the pastor recognized the need but the church leadership didn’t.

At the church we attend now, I am part of the security team. We have a skilled and well equipped team. Regular meetings, committed members, and the full support of church leadership, right down to insurance and regular training and qualification. It’s a good thing.

 

[Jeepnik]

Since I am a member of "The Church" responsible for numerous Crusades, perhaps the parishioners comprehend the need for armed members! Or maybe it's just the mindset of folks in Florida?

Oh many of us comprehend. But, when your Archbishop takes a stand against church security...

 

[Slyk Willy]

I'm proud to say that we've had enhanced security at my church for about 8 years now. I just did a presentation to the congregation this last Sunday to remind and introduce to new members our "multi-layered" approach to security the most fundamental was...locking the doors during service and having a team member stand guard at the door.
In Michigan we're required to get permission from the "Designated Official" to carry. Our church counsel officially voted that our Pastor would be that person. He gathers appropriate documentation from the prospect and upon making the decision signs a formal document allowing that person to carry. I understand that some faiths have designated their regional officials (Bishops and the like) to be their DO.
I wrote a detailed security manual that was Council/Pastor approved, detailing the roles, responsibilities and obligations of our security team.
The security team is not required nor encouraged to carry but some do because it's also not discouraged.
I attend as many seminars and training events regarding church security that I can and make sense.
I've also applied for a state grant specifically for security in places of worship that has not been decided yet.
It's been said that "YOU'D HAVE TO BE CRAZY TO ATTACK A CHURCH"... that would be a correct statement and they ARE out there.

 

[blume357]

Get and read the book "First 30 Seconds" by Ed Monk and what you will learn is there is really no way to stop an attack. What one can do is be mentally and physically prepared is reduce the amount of injured and dead from the attack. This is the sad truth of our times. That is actually the best even the best church security can do.

I've taken a lot of classes over the year both for my work and in firearms training but one two day seminar I took a number of years ago stands out.
This was a Sheep Dog Seminar on Church security with a number of speakers and it was an eye opener for sure. The first thing that needs to be recognized with security at a house of worship is there a a number of potential threats way before an active shooter.... first and foremost is a medical emergency usually with an elderly member... right after that are sexual predators and most often after children..... active shooters get the headlines but as we know the media tends to write their own view of any of this....

I'm not the leader of our Fellowships security... I actually declined the offer and let someone else have that job and he is better at it than me. But the reality is our 'team' is a joke.... not enough people and not enough training if a bad thing happens... but I do get thanked every Sunday by a member or two... which is kind of funny since all I do is sit in the forum most of the time during service and open the door for late comers. Oh, I did write a pre-service security check procedure which includes checking fire exits, all the doors and rooms... there are over 44 rooms in our building. The humorous part of the procedure is the last thing on the list is to check the cookies and cake set out in the fellowship hall for the coffee hour after service.

Here's me hard at work this past Sunday:

 

[Yaworski]

My solution is to avoid churches except for wedding, funerals, and Lenten fish frys.

 

[375hh1973]

My solution is to avoid churches except for wedding, funerals, and Lenten fish frys.

Agree 100%

Im not even sure about fish fry any more. Last one i went to the fish was burnt.

 

[Johnny-Baseball]

Around DFW I see many churches and schools putting up tall metal perimeter fences. Most have Rolling gates and security guards. One main entrance.

"MANY" is a huge overstatement. "MOST" - an even bigger one. You really need to get out more often. Churches in McKinney and Allen are Wyatt Earp- like. You know, "brave, courageous and bold." And being attended by real Texans, they take their cue from Texas' traditional music, "Don't fence me in."

In my church, I don't inquire about the handgun policy/position. Nothing is posted. 'Nuff said. If ever I carry there, it is concealed.

Don't ask, don't tell.

 

[contender]

"Perhaps we stay because our faith is strong. Because we believe that no one will drive us from our chosen religion."

I applaud you for your faith.

But,, sadly,,, it reeks of hypocrisy when the Archbishop has a military style of security,, and doesn't allow for or plan for the protection for his members.

That immediately reminded me of a very strong church goer,, the mayor of out town, who fought against the selling of alcohol in restaurants & stores in our town. He even had the pastor in his church preaching hard against it & fighting the businesses who wanted to have the ability to sell alcohol. Lots of public activity by him on this.
Yet,, I caught him in a town about 30 miles away,, coming out of a liquor store,, with (2) large bags of booze. He darn near dropped those bags when I loudly called to him & went to him. I politely confronted him & called him out on his hypocrisy and if I had a camera that I would have taken pictures of his purchases & his actions. (This was before cell phones.)
He BEGGED me to not tell people,, AND that he'd change his opposition to the businesses. I told him that I would not promise to out him,,, but I would hold off until I saw his actions.
He reversed his stance,, and got the church to back off, and the laws changed for the businesses.

Point being, it's a "Do as I say,, not as I do,, because I'm more important."

The BSA motto is; "Be Prepared."

And even the Bible talks of the shepherds tending their flocks against the wolves.

Jeepnik,, I'm NOT trying to upset you or say you are wrong. I'm trying to point out the sad way many in this Country view things, and fail to plan for the worst.

I do admire you for your strong faith!

 

[xTopGun]

Psalm 121 ..... or will he

 

[Jeepnik]

My solution is to avoid churches except for wedding, funerals, and Lenten fish frys.

So in your case, you mostly let the terrorists win?

 

[Jeepnik]

Contender, it isn't the Archbishop with the military guard. Although I am pretty sure he does have armed security he has a driver and an assistant with him whenever he goes out. I know that the assistant is armed.

I was speaking about the Pope. Many may recall an attempt on the life of the then Pope and the popemobile that resulted. When the increased threats to churches began to occur some folks thought this was rather hypocritical. But then, whether a political or religious leader all seemed to be more concerned about their personal security than those they lead.

 

[eveled]

In my church, I don't inquire about the handgun policy/position. Nothing is posted. 'Nuff said. If ever I carry there, it is concealed.

Don't ask, don't tell.