John taffin has some measurments of few cylinders. can't remember the caliber. they are available on the web........I've found them once before. I'm looking right now to see if i can find them again.........I remember they are in an article and in some matrix that has blue, yellow and ? colors in it.
The New Vaquero will take +P 45 Loads per Ruger(do not try)
- Thread starter tek4260
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AH HA, found it, but it's not what you're looking for.
here it is anyway:
http://www.sixguns.com/range/Fa45.htm
sorry about that
c.r.
here it is anyway:
http://www.sixguns.com/range/Fa45.htm
sorry about that
c.r.
outlaw_dogboy
Single-Sixer
Just what the he** are we talking about here??!!!!! Are we talking about New Model Vaqueros, or New Model New Vaqueros?!!!
Because I keep seeing New Vaquero post his letter that he sent to Ruger asking about a "new model Vaquero," which OF COURSE will take ALL the heavy loads you want to put in it. I haven't seen ANYONE post that they have contacted Ruger about a Ruger "NEW VAQUERO" and Ruger say it will digest SAAMI +P loads. New Vaquero's letter proves nothing, except exactly what has been said since shortly after the "New Model Vaquero" came out in, what, the 80's?
THIS is why people like Flatgate and other keep harping -- rightly so, IMO -- that people that are referring to Vaqueros or New Vaqueros need to use the correct terminology. THAT is how people get hurt!
Because I keep seeing New Vaquero post his letter that he sent to Ruger asking about a "new model Vaquero," which OF COURSE will take ALL the heavy loads you want to put in it. I haven't seen ANYONE post that they have contacted Ruger about a Ruger "NEW VAQUERO" and Ruger say it will digest SAAMI +P loads. New Vaquero's letter proves nothing, except exactly what has been said since shortly after the "New Model Vaquero" came out in, what, the 80's?
THIS is why people like Flatgate and other keep harping -- rightly so, IMO -- that people that are referring to Vaqueros or New Vaqueros need to use the correct terminology. THAT is how people get hurt!
In my post I quoted the CEO of Ruger as telling me that ALL Ruger firearms are rated to accept all SAAMI-rated ammo.
Some of their manuals say the same thing, and go so far as to include +P SAAMI-rated ammo.
The only true SAAMI +P ammo is for 9mm, .38 Special, and .45 ACP. In addition, .38Super is usually listed as .38 Super +P to distinguish it from the original .38 ACP.
There is no SAAMI +P rating for any .45 Colt ammo.
Edited to comply with my following post.
Some of their manuals say the same thing, and go so far as to include +P SAAMI-rated ammo.
The only true SAAMI +P ammo is for 9mm, .38 Special, and .45 ACP. In addition, .38Super is usually listed as .38 Super +P to distinguish it from the original .38 ACP.
There is no SAAMI +P rating for any .45 Colt ammo.
Edited to comply with my following post.
outlaw_dogboy
Single-Sixer
Ale-8(1)":2hjvnd4h said:In my post I quoted the CEO of Ruger as telling me that ALL Ruger firearms are rated to accept all SAAMI-rated ammo.
Their manuals say the same thing, and go so far as to include +P SAAMI-rated ammo.
The only true SAAMI +P ammo is for 9mm, .38 Special, and .45 ACP. In addition, .38Super is usually listed as .38 Super +P to distinguish it from the original .38 ACP.
There is no SAAMI +P rating for any .45 Colt ammo.
So the New Vaquero manual says nothing about +P ammo for the .45 then, correct? Maybe an obvious answer, but with all the implications and mis-applied terminology getting thrown around in this thread, it is worth asking.
The New Vaquero manual lists .357 Magnum and .45 Colt as appropriate ammo for the New Vaqueros. It does not mention +P.
It goes on to disallow "remanufactured" or handloaded ammo, or any other ammo not manufactured to industry standards.
As mentioned above, there is no "industry standard" +P ammo for .357 Magnum nor .45 Colt.
It goes on to disallow "remanufactured" or handloaded ammo, or any other ammo not manufactured to industry standards.
As mentioned above, there is no "industry standard" +P ammo for .357 Magnum nor .45 Colt.
As I have mentioned:
[ I spoke with the Head of Ruger's Technical and Service Department several times when my "VAQUERO" grenaded and he specifically said that Cor-Bon's +P 45colt ammo was NOT approved for the "New Vaquero". ]
(When I called Cor-Bon and talked with their Tech, the first thing he asked "Was it a "New Vaquero"? They are not equipped to handle our ammo". end quote.)
This was straight from their department head.
{Ruger does not offer the New Vaquero in 44magnum.
I wonder why.?}
I know how I feel about it... I certainly don't want to be on the firing line with ANYONE using "Ruger Only" loads in a 45colt New Vaquero !!!
[ I spoke with the Head of Ruger's Technical and Service Department several times when my "VAQUERO" grenaded and he specifically said that Cor-Bon's +P 45colt ammo was NOT approved for the "New Vaquero". ]
(When I called Cor-Bon and talked with their Tech, the first thing he asked "Was it a "New Vaquero"? They are not equipped to handle our ammo". end quote.)
This was straight from their department head.
{Ruger does not offer the New Vaquero in 44magnum.
I wonder why.?}
I know how I feel about it... I certainly don't want to be on the firing line with ANYONE using "Ruger Only" loads in a 45colt New Vaquero !!!
I have been reading this thread for some time.
After measuring the cylinder of my now ex-NM Vaquero,and
the cylinder of my Uberti Cattleman,both in 45 Colt,a conclusion
has been made:The NM Vaquero can be "upped" a tad.
But NO "Ruger Only"in the NM Vaquero.
Stick with standard 45 Colt loads only.This would mean no 300gr of any type.
Those 240 to 270gr SAAs will be fine.
There is no reason to "magnumize" this Ruger.
If you need more speed,then buy a BlackHawk or a Freedom Arms.
Pay attention to your reloading manuals.Use the correct powder and primers,
bullets etc.
After measuring the cylinder of my now ex-NM Vaquero,and
the cylinder of my Uberti Cattleman,both in 45 Colt,a conclusion
has been made:The NM Vaquero can be "upped" a tad.
But NO "Ruger Only"in the NM Vaquero.
Stick with standard 45 Colt loads only.This would mean no 300gr of any type.
Those 240 to 270gr SAAs will be fine.
There is no reason to "magnumize" this Ruger.
If you need more speed,then buy a BlackHawk or a Freedom Arms.
Pay attention to your reloading manuals.Use the correct powder and primers,
bullets etc.
pvtschultz
Blackhawk
45 Colt, what you have just said is very dangerous. The New Model (NM) Vaquero is synonomous with the Vaquero which was a New Model Ruger revolver. The New Vaquero too is a New Model Ruger revolver which is the sucessor of the Vaquero. Unfortunately, the New Vaquero does not fit the "Ruger Only" mold for reloading.
COFFEE POT
Bearcat
You're putting up one heck of a fight there, guy, and you have it right. There is no SAAMI .45 Colt +P spec. the SAAMI spec for .45 Colt is: 14,000 psi Max Avg Pressure, 14,400 psi Max Probable Lot Mean and 15,000 psi Max Probable Sample Mean. Proof pressure for the .45 Colt is 16,900 psi min/21,700 psi max. That's a 1.4 to 1.55 multiplyer which is based on cartridge operating pressure and caliber. Based on that, keep your .45 Colt handloads at 14,000 psi allowing for a variation to 15,000 psi absolute max. That is the stated rating for the gun. Do NOT exceed it!!Ale-8(1)":1rntmb73 said:
The point is, there should be no "Ruger only" loads in ANY of the Ruger handguns. The "Ruger only" comment implies loads in excess of SAAMI ratings, and Ruger disallows this.
Yes, a lotta people have successfully used elevated loads in their Rugers. It's a common occurrance. This does not make it "right" by any means.
And for what it's worth, I am definitely NOT telling anyone what to do with their own guns. But we should ALL heed the comments of COFFEE POT since he is THE MAN from Ruger. Word to the wise . . .
;-)
Yes, a lotta people have successfully used elevated loads in their Rugers. It's a common occurrance. This does not make it "right" by any means.
And for what it's worth, I am definitely NOT telling anyone what to do with their own guns. But we should ALL heed the comments of COFFEE POT since he is THE MAN from Ruger. Word to the wise . . .
;-)
outlaw_dogboy
Single-Sixer
45 Colt":1hnum9f9 said:
Good GRIEF!!!
A NEW MODEL VAQUERO CAN TAKE "RUGER ONLY" LOADS ALL DAY LONG!
A NEW MODEL "NEW VAQUERO" -- WHICH MOST PEOPLE LIKE TO JUST REFER TO AS THE "NEW VAQUERO" CAN'T!!!!
WHAT IS SO FREAKING HARD ABOUT USING THE RIGHT MODEL NAMES??!!!
The point, as we're all trying to make clear, is that while the large frame Ruger single-actions may "take Ruger only loads all day long" you do so at your own risk, and against Ruger's specific recommendations.
And using the proper names is a good idea . . . like for instance "Vaquero" and "New Vaquero" . . . just like it says on the guns themselves. They are both New Models.
That's it. I'm done. Outta here. Promise.
;-)
PS Yeah c.r. I can . . . but I'll always listen to pros like COFFEE POT. Some folks seem to miss that.
And using the proper names is a good idea . . . like for instance "Vaquero" and "New Vaquero" . . . just like it says on the guns themselves. They are both New Models.
That's it. I'm done. Outta here. Promise.
;-)
PS Yeah c.r. I can . . . but I'll always listen to pros like COFFEE POT. Some folks seem to miss that.
Texas Jack Black
Single-Sixer
This has turned into a name issue why not just say large frame and medium frame We are talking about the medium Frame Vaquero it has been tested by Brian Pierce to shoot loads in the 20,000 range and the large Vaquero has been tested to shoot loads of 30,000 by John Linbaugh And BOTH loads have NOT been approved by Ruger who says to only shoot factory loads in their guns. So all who shoot those big boomers in their Rugers also do so at their own risk.
As far as the SAA colt and its clones we all have our own opinions as to what pressure it will handle. I have found that more than 14,000 but less than 20,000 works in my guns with a 280 grain lead bullet traveling at 1020 fps at under 17,000 .
Best wishes
T J B
As far as the SAA colt and its clones we all have our own opinions as to what pressure it will handle. I have found that more than 14,000 but less than 20,000 works in my guns with a 280 grain lead bullet traveling at 1020 fps at under 17,000 .
Best wishes
T J B
COFFEE POT
Bearcat
Personally, I would suspect that Ruger knows far more about what the guns will handle than do writers/gunsmiths. Just because they haven't had a gun blow up on them doesn't mean the guns will handle a steady diet of higher than SAAMI pressures. Anybody who listens to writers/gunsmiths over the manufacturer is asking for trouble. Why is it so important that a caliber be pushed beyond it's stated operating pressure? Why don't you want to listen to the manufacturer? Do you think they're hiding something from you? What would be the purpose in that? You don't want a KABOOM and neither do they. Folks that think they more about a gun than the manufacturer are just fooling themselves. If they know so much, why aren't they in the industry designing guns? If you want a hotter load, get a bigger gun. In this case, go to a .454 if you want higher performance than standard .45 Colt specs.Texas Jack Black":117ih8d0 said:
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
COFFEE POT":21o7k344 said:
Hi, Coffee Pot
You're being far more polite about this issue than my old gunsmith boss when I ran the range. He had a term for such folks that sounded a lot like "clucking morons" from across the room...
We kept a display case full of torn and twisted steel at the range to help remind folks of what happens when one thinks one knows more than the mfr. That story I've told before.
The one I haven't told is the one about one of our guys who blew up a very high dollar single barrel trap gun. He sent it back to the mfr w/ a note he'd been shooting only factory loads (he hadn't--"buffalo loads" was a pet term we used for ammo such as his.)
They wrote back and told him they'd examined the gun, and found it was not a factory load that took it apart. They gave him an analysis (dunno how they did the testing) that told him the powder charge, wad, shot charge and a couple of other things about his load. He only semi-jokingly said the only thing they missed was the brand (and possibly size) of shot in his load.
Made a believer out of him. And a whole lot of us who knew him!
Rick C
COFFEE POT
Bearcat
I don't know about shotguns, but I've had ammo manufacturers come back with that sort of analysis on semi-auto pistols that were blown up by 'supposed' factory loads. I was told they can analyze the powder residue chemically, the bullet fouling chemically, the primer deposits chemically as well as the brass alloy left in the chamber from the case. If somebody thinks they can pull the wool over a manufacturer's eye by feeding them a bunch of bull, they are dead wrong. Just because the customer service dept doesn't call them a liar doesn't mean they don't know the truth. I saw a lot of that. If folks told me the truth I helped them to the best of my ability. If they lied to me, I stuck it to them.
Texas Jack Black
Single-Sixer
Interesting last few posts ,if we listen to the manufactures we would not use reloads. Most, if not all gun makers suggest using NO reloaded ammo .
Ruger would not need to make its guns so strong they could cut back on metal and save money.We could sell all our reloading stuff and most gun mags could just go away there would be no need for reloading material ,reloading manuals etc. and men like ELMER KEITH would be reduced to foolish shooters who take risks.
Was ELMER KEITH A CLUCKING MORON ? I THINK NOT
BEST WISHES
T J B
Ruger would not need to make its guns so strong they could cut back on metal and save money.We could sell all our reloading stuff and most gun mags could just go away there would be no need for reloading material ,reloading manuals etc. and men like ELMER KEITH would be reduced to foolish shooters who take risks.
Was ELMER KEITH A CLUCKING MORON ? I THINK NOT
BEST WISHES
T J B
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