JohnnyRingo
Bearcat
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2009
- Messages
- 28
Rick Courtright":uj6ok7m9 said:
"Old Model" = original Blackhawk, w/ three screws thru the frame, marked on frame "Blackhawk" ("Old Model" being common usage to describe the "original" BH series--it's not stamped anywhere. Sometimes also commonly referred to as "3 screw") Came from the factory w/o transfer bar mechanism; may have been "converted" to the t/b at the factory
(im going to use caps to differentiate my answers from your questions,so you know im not shouting!...LOL)
YES, THESE WOULD BE REFERRED TO AS "OLD MODEL" IN MY BOOK. THEY WOULD HAVE THE NAME OF THE GUN SUCH AS BLACKHAWK,VAQUERO,SINGLE SIX,ECT STAMPED ON THE FRAME, BUT WOULDNT BE HAVE THE WORDS "OLD MODEL" THAT IS JUST THE MOST COMMON WAY TO REFER TO THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE ORIGINAL MODEL AND THE "NEW MODEL" GUNS
"New Model" = New Model Blackhawk (NMBH), pins instead of screws, marked on frame "New Model Blackhawk". Came from the factory
YES, THAT WOULD BE CORRECT!
"Bisley" = variant of NMBH, marked on frame "New Model Blackhawk"
YEP!
"Vaquero" = variant of NMBH, marked on frame "New Model Blackhawk" (there is NO "Old Vaquero" either stamped or in common usage.)
NO, THE VAQUERO IS MARKED ON THE FRAME "VAQUERO" FOR WHAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED THE "OLD MODEL" AND "NEW MODEL VAQUERO" FOR THE NEW MODEL GUNS. THE OLD MODEL VAQUERO IS ACTUALLY A MODIFIED BLACKHAWK FRAME, AND CAN GENERALLY TAKE ANY LOAD DATA YOU CAN SAFELY SHOOT THRU THE BLACKHAWK, GENERALLY MARKED AS "RUGER AND T/C ONLY LOADS" IN MOST BOOKS
"New Vaquero" = variant of NMBH, marked on frame "New Vaquero"
YEP!
Old model, and these three variants of the New Model are built on the heavy frame, heavy cylinder blueprints. Reloading data listed as "Ruger Only" applies to these models.
YES. WHEN YOUR LOOKING THRU RELOADING DATA, AND COME ACROSS DATA THAT SAYS "RUGER ONLY" WHAT THERE GENERALLY REFERRING TO IS THE "OLD MODEL" OR "ORIGINAL MODEL" GUNS,USUALLY IN 45 COLT.
New Vaquero is built on a lighter frame, lighter cylinder blueprint. Reloading data listed as "Ruger Only" does NOT apply to these models.
YES, THAT IS ALSO TRUE, BUT I THINK THATS WHAT THIS WHOLE THREAD WAS STARTED OVER. THERE IS CONTROVERSY OVER WHAT LOADS WOULD BE SAFE IN THE "NEW MODEL VAQUERO" IN 45 COLT. THE OLDER MODELS ARE BEEFIER, AND CAN HANDLE MUCH HIGHER PRESSURED ROUNDS THAN THE NEW MODEL GUNS IN 45 COLT. THAT SAID, AS I SAID IN A PREVIOUS POST, I HAVE FIRED SOME PRETTY STOUT LOADS IN MY NEW MODEL WITHOUT DAMAGE, BUT I WOULDNT RECOMEND DOING SO WITH ANY REGULARITY! I EVEN WENT AS FAR MYSELF AS TO ORDER A LARGE BATCH OF NICKEL PLATED 45 LC BRASS JUST SPECIFICALLY FOR MY HIGHER PRESSURE LOADS I SHOOT IN MY "OLD MODEL" OR "ORIGINAL" MODEL VAQUEROS AND BLACKHAWKS,ECT. THAT WAY, EVEN THOUGH I USE THE SAME BULLET, I CAN TELL AT A GLANCE IF IM LOADING THE CORRECT AMMO FOR THE CORRECT GUN (OLD MODEL-NICKEL, NEW MODEL-BRASS)
YOU HAVE TO ALSO REMEBER, THAT WHEN THIS ISSUE USUALLY COMES UP IN THE RELOADING CIRCLES, IT IS REFERRING SPECIFICALLY TO THE 45 COLT. THE 357 OLD AND NEW MODELS ARE BOTH STOUT ENOUGH TO SHOOT SOME PRETTY INCREDIBLE STUFF THRU. IN LOOKING AT THE OLD MODEL VAQUERO 357, IM AFRAID YOUD HAVE TO REALLY SCREW THE POOCH WHEN RELOADING FOR IT TO SHOOT SOMETHING THRU IT THATS STOUT ENOUGH TO DAMAGE IT. I DONT KNOW IT FOR A FACT, BUT ID PROBABLY BET THAT THE CYLINDER IN THE OPRIGINAL 357 BLACKHAWK AND VAQUERO ACCOUNTS FOR A HUGE PART OF THE WEIGHT TO THE GUN.
(one thing i do have to say though, i also spoke to ruger about the issue of the higher pressured rounds thru the new model vaquero 45 colt, and they did tell me that the new model is ok to shoot regular ammo, +P and +P+ ammunition thru. while i do agree there isnt any sort of "standard" for those for 45 colt,i do know just from taking to gloria over at ruger that they proof the guns at about triple + cowboy load pressures....i just went thru all of this recently with an old model vaquero i sent back to them to have a new sight blade installed on. long story short, somehow when they proofed the gun at the factory after the repair ( they told me they proof all guns,new,used,repaired,ect before they leave the factory as a CYA procedure) they cracked my cylinder. when i got it back, after 7 rounds of magtech cowboy loads, the cylinder cracked thru and i had to have it sent back and a new cylinder fit,no charge of course!). so point being, while i wouldnt shoot those kind of loads continually thru my new models, they will take higher than cowboy load pressures.
hope i answered some of your questions.
