Required engravings/markings, Single Six

[RatCat454]

Subject gun is a stainless Single Six. It has had all markings/engravings removed except that the serial number is unaltered. The serial number is not altered. No billboard, no Ruger markings, no caliber indication, just the serial number. Is this legal?

 

[JAYDAWG]

Yes

 

[NikA]

I'm not so sure. ATF markings guide and federal code state manufacturer and place of business must be there in addition to serial number. Not sure there's an explicit law for non-NFA firearms regarding removing manufacturer info like there is for serial number.

 

[GYJ44]

Law requires the manufacturer/importer to have markings but the only thing YOU can't remove is the serial number.

 

[Yaworski]

I'm not so sure. ATF markings guide and federal code state manufacturer and place of business must be there in addition to serial number.

This comment made me go to the gun room and start looking at my guns. Everyone has that info but not all on the frame. My Browning HP only has the serial number on the frame. My S&W 3914 only has the trademark and SN on the frame. In both cases, the company name and address are on the slide.

 

[thinckley]

I'm not so sure. ATF markings guide and federal code state manufacturer and place of business must be there in addition to serial number. Not sure there's an explicit law for non-NFA firearms regarding removing manufacturer info like there is for serial number.

I've avoided weighing in because we are skirting the edge of "legal advice", but while they may have to include it when manufacturing, what about a barrel swap? That would remove quite a bit of info from most Ruger revolvers.

I also don't know about where you or the OP live, but here in Utah the local ATF offers a monthly or semi-monthly "Coffee with the ATF" for FFL holders to ask questions. Again, not speaking for the ATF as a whole, just the local guys here. They want FFL holders to succeed and be in compliance. They are not out there playing "gotcha" to bust FFL's that make innocent mistakes.

If I had a question about the legality of something, I would start with a reputable gunsmith. Not at a big box, but someone who actually cares about and knows guns, and the law.

 

[GYJ44]

A barrel swap has zero implications with regards to federal law. You can also draw file all the markings off a factory barrel with no issues. The serial number is the only thing that can't be altered in any way. Custom gunsmiths even have to make sure the SN is deep enough and far enough away from the cylinder window when they do an oversized cylinder conversion, to ensure they don't encroach on it.

 

[rkrcpa]

My custom 41 mag mid frame Blackhawk is marked this way. No Ruger markings at all. S/N only is on the flip side.

 

[Yaworski]

Again, not speaking for the ATF as a whole, just the local guys here. They want FFL holders to succeed and be in compliance. They are not out there playing "gotcha" to bust FFL's that make innocent mistakes.

ATF has multiple parts. The part that FFLs usually deal with is "Industry Operations." My inspector once told me, "My job is to help you stay in business. " I only had one audit and the inspectors (two VERY attractive young women) were very helpful and pointed out simple common paperwork errors that I had made.

Enforcement is a different matter. They have automatic weapons and balaclavas and want to use them. If they could come in the daylight and ask a simple question, they'll opt to kick your door in at 3 AM and shoot you when you come out of your bedroom with a gun.

 

[thinckley]

ATF has multiple parts. The part that FFLs usually deal with is "Industry Operations." My inspector once told me, "My job is to help you stay in business. " I only had one audit and the inspectors (two VERY attractive young women) were very helpful and pointed out simple common paperwork errors that I had made.

The gunsmith I do side work for went through an audit a year ago. First one since he started business 25 years ago. In those years they went from hard copy bound books, to software. They also moved a couple of times and went through 3 or 4 office managers who were supposed to take care of the paperwork. It was an absolute mess. There were three inspectors involved, the lead and two assistants. During the audit (which lasted almost 3 months) one of the inspectors brought his personal firearms in for my guy to work on.

We spent days going through old paperwork. Lot's of late nights.

They really were easy to deal with, wound up "citing" him for about a dozen cases of bad paperwork, but when he went before the review board, they just told him, "Do better".

During the audit (partially because of it), they also approved his switch from a Class 3 to a Class 7 since they build custom AR's (which resulted in even more work to box up everything from his Class 3 to send to the ATF).