Another "hearing" issue.

[PinnedAndRecessed]

The best protection is plugs and muffs. That's my go-to range setup. But in the field, with plugs and muffs, I'm not able to hear game walking through the fall leaves, for example. Even with my new Howard Leight Impact Sport Bolt and custom gel pads, if I'm wearing plugs underneath, I can't hear ambient noises. Like, a Grizzly bear walking up behind.

Yet, to use only the muffs still allows damaging noise to enter my ears, if I'm understanding correctly.

For example, take the AR15. Caliber .223, 55 gr bullet; 18 inch barrel: produces noise of 155.5 dB. Howard Leight Impact Sport Bolt: NRR 22dB.

From the formula from this link:
https://www.listentech.com/understanding-noise-reduction-ratings/22 (NRR electronic muffs) -7 divided by 2= actual NRR = 7.5.

That gives 155.5dB – 7.5 NRR = 148dB actual noise reaching your ears. Even with these electronic muffs.

Even the addition of plugs only adds 5 to the NRR, which is still 143dB reaching your ears.

From the research I've seen, sudden noise 140dB and above will cause instant hearing damage. Very disconcerting if one hunts with only electronic muffs. And if one would like to hear ambient noise, he'll only hunt with electronic muffs. And that doesn't even take into consideration the difficulty of cheek weld.

Do all us gunners have hearing damage? Is that simply an acceptable risk?

 

[JPGLSG1234]

"Do all us gunners have hearing damage? Is that simply an acceptable risk?"

I believe that is a correct statement.

 

[txramfan]

Both of my ears always ring because of a concert when I was 19. I always wear foam plugs or similar when hunting. Dove for 30 years, deer twice. My left ear rings louder due to my negligence in removing my foam plugs thinking my companion was done dove hunting real close to sundown. He wasn't.

On a side note, sorry thread drift.

A/C sound in a hotel my wife heard and thought would bother me , I didn't hear. Turned a/c on off and my ringing ( hum) didn't change. She finally understood.

 

[Mobuck]

When the bullets are flying and folks are dying, there's little concern for hearing damage. We didn't even know what hearing protection was on the old time trap ranges.
The only time I'm concerned about muzzle blast while hunting is when using short barrels such as 10.5" AR 'pistols' or an actual handgun.

 

[NikA]

One problem with the OP's calculation is that the filter adjustment, correction factor, etc. are geared towards constant noise levels versus impulse noises. That won't apply to most firearms.

 

[ediogenes]

22 NRR is never enough for firearms, especially those that produce supersonic muzzle velocities. I always look for something approaching 30. The lightweights don’t cut it.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

One problem with the OP's calculation is that the filter adjustment, correction factor, etc. are geared towards constant noise levels versus impulse noises. That won't apply to most firearms.

Well then, numerous gun websites are perpetuating this myth.

https://tacticalearsafety.com/what-is-the-recommended-nrr-for-shooting/

 

[NikA]

Well then, numerous gun websites are perpetuating this myth.

https://tacticalearsafety.com/what-is-the-recommended-nrr-for-shooting/

That'd be the classic gun website parroting without understanding the underlying data.

Both sites reference a weighted TWA. If you go to the NIOSH or OSHA site and read the reference material, that Time Weighted Average is recorded over an 8 hour period. Are you continuously exposed to noise at the sound level of gunfire for 8 hours? If not, than an 8-hour equivalent dose calculation doesn't really apply.

There are very likely groups out there measuring the value you seek. A cursory reading of parroted information is not going to get it for you.

ETA: The following paper places the acoustic disturbance of a gunshot at 3-5 milliseconds. Using a TWA figuring 1 gunshot per second continuously, that gives a TWA of about 122 dB. That sounds reasonable to me for an average, but really shows how little this standard applies.

https://www.montana.edu/rmaher/publications/maher_aac_0406.pdf

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

In simple terms, if you, NikA, buy quality muffs with an advertised NRR of 30dB, and are shooting a gun that produces 150dB noise, can you expect the actual noise that reaches your ears to be 120dB? Or, is there yet another formula that applies?

 

[jimbo1096]

I wear Walker electronic ear muffs. They are fine if I am doing the shooting. If there is someone next to me using a 500 magnum, then I put in plugs. While out in the woods the Walkers have sound amplification they are actually too loud so I have to turn them down.
I prefer no muffs or plugs when out in the woods.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

I prefer no muffs or plugs when out in the woods.

You don't use hearing protection when you hunt?

 

[Kevin]

I use those foam ear plugs with over the ear protectors also.

Normally with pistols it isn’t a problem but when I shoot rifles, the over ear muffs knock up against the butt stock. It’s workable, just annoying.

 

[kmoore]

How much actual firing are you doing? Shooting at big game is for me. I am by myself; I fire 1 or 2 rounds or let's say I can't hit a target and shoot 4 or 5 rounds during the whole season. I don't wear hearing protection, hearing my surroundings is more important.
Duck hunting, I do that with up to 4 others nearby. Sometimes I fire a box of ammo a day as others. I have been wearing hearing protection of some type for over 20 years. What seems to work best for me is electronic shooting muffs.

 

[jimbo1096]

You don't use hearing protection when you hunt?

No ^^see post above by kmoore

 

[NikA]

In simple terms, if you, NikA, buy quality muffs with an advertised NRR of 30dB, and are shooting a gun that produces 150dB noise, can you expect the actual noise that reaches your ears to be 120dB? Or, is there yet another formula that applies?

In simple terms, with appropriate hearing protection fit, the difference between the unprotected and attenuated sound levels is the NRR. That is the method specified by EPA for determining NRR. The 7 dB correction factor is for a different frequency weighting and the 50% factor is to account for the population fraction that don't correctly insert/fit their hearing protection. In other words, the value you are coming up with is an OSHA sounds dosage level and does not give the true noise level when hearing protection is properly used.

 

[contender]

"You don't use hearing protection when you hunt?"

Most people do not wear hearing protection while hunting.

Different styles of hunting may not be capable of using hearing protection. Or,, some folks may have a medical issue to prevent their use too much.
But in general,, many just prefer to not wear any protection.

 

[Ka6otm]

I've never met anybody wearing ear protection while hunting and that includes me.

 

[Paul B]

"I've never met anybody wearing ear protection while hunting and that includes me."

Well, now you have. I'm for all practical purposes legally deaf in my right ear and only have about 55% left in the left ear. At the range it's muffs and plugs. On a hunt it's muffs. FWIW, the electronic ones work just like hearing aids and do a right fair job of keeping your ears warm at near zero temperatures. Last two elk hunts I did had highs of 4 and 14 degrees above zero and my ears stayed warm enough for comfort. The guide looked at me kind of funny but I'm trying to keep what little hearing I have left.
Paul B.

 

[ccw1911]

Good quality electronic muffs used with whatever plugs you like works well for me, you get protection and if you turn up the muffs you can still hear what you need to. No amount of hearing protection is overkill, once you damage your hearing it's permanent, Tinnitus or ringing in the ears is cumulative so if you have it believe me you want to do everything you can not to make it worse.