Another Sigcident

[Mike J]

This is a Ben Stoeger video relating that another range has banned the P-320. There is nothing I can say that he doesn't touch on. I would really like to see video of the incident.

 

[GSP7]

Yeah , "social media" gotz da dope and da skinny breaking newz

 

[RoninPA]

YEAH - if it's on ANY social media it MUST BE TRUE - what a bunch of hokie bulls!!t.

 

[jimbo1096]

Might keep an eye out and find a P320 on sale

 

[DGW1949]

Where there's smoke, there's usually at least some amount of fire.
Just sayin'.

DGW

 

[GSP7]

I expect no one on here knows JBelk

 

[XUSNORDIE]

Growing tired of the P320/M17/M18 BS....let it go FFS it's over......

 

[hittman]

I don’t know the author but he seems to have some street cred.
——————————————-

Benjamin Thomas Stoeger is an American competition shooter and firearms instructor who started competing actively in 2005.

He placed first in the 2017 IPSC Handgun World Shoot, second behind Bob Vogel in the 2011 IPSC Handgun World Shoot, and placed third in the 2014 IPSC Handgun World Shoot behind Eric Grauffel and Simon "JJ" Racaza.

He is also three time IPSC US Handgun Production Champion (2012, 2013 and 2015), eight time USPSA Handgun Production Champion (2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018, and 2019).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Stoeger

 

[blume357]

I firmly believe the average gun owner should not be allowed to own a striker fired pistol.... they have not had enough training to handle a gun like this. If I was elected there would be a law. I know y'all realize part or most of what I said is either a joke or me being stupid but I do believe the average gun owner in this country does need at least four days of training for me to be comfortable hanging around with them.

 

[eveled]

It’s not the striker itself at fault. Fully cocked strikers with no safety’s are the problem.

A partially cocked striker is like a double action revolver.

A fully cocked striker makes a 320 like a 1911 cocked and unlocked.

I am also convinced some user errors are being blamed on the 320. Just too easy to blame the gun now.

 

[Kevin]

Well I really like my 320. And thank god I live in Texas where my range has rules. But not dumb ones.

They need to ban the shooter not the gun. I think Blume is right actually about striker fired guns.

If people would grow up shooting and learn on single shot 22’s. Then progress to a revolver. After that on to magazine equipped guns.

But no! Now they become adults, have a semi decent job and go buy the latest plastic striker 9mm.

 

[Jeepnik]

It's a poor workman who blames his tools. But these days just about everyone wants to blame inanimate objects for anything untoward that occurs.

And then when their own stupidity causes some disaster they want to blame the manufacturer. And of course be rewarded with a huge settlement well over the actual loss caused by said stupidity.

There was a time, and I'm not that old, when I did something stupid my dad would look at me, shake his head and say "well you won't do that again, will you boy?"

Today parents first thought is, call a lawyer.

 

[themousethatroared]

They need to study this like they do research on dark matter and neutrino detection.

Get a really deep mine with a lot of space inside. Set up thousands of tables, and put all the 320s on the tables, loaded and fully clocked. Then get out of the mine and wait to see if one of them goes off on its own.

On the down side, if one goes off, it would probably be like a floor that is covered with mousetraps. The first one goes off and triggers all the rest. In this case, it might cause the end of the world, or possibly the end of the universe.

But it would be worth doing the experiment for the sake of research.

 

[xTopGun]

Well I really like my 320. And thank god I live in Texas where my range has rules. But not dumb ones.

They need to ban the shooter not the gun. I think Blume is right actually about striker fired guns.

If people would grow up shooting and learn on single shot 22’s. Then progress to a revolver. After that on to magazine equipped guns.

But no! Now they become adults, have a semi decent job and go buy the latest plastic striker 9mm.

so, are you saying that some people shouldn't be allowed to own a gun unless they take a course.... such blaspheme, some sites say that goes against everything the 2nd stands for and should not be tolerated to any degree . . . . .

 

[375hh1973]

Well I really like my 320. And thank god I live in Texas where my range has rules. But not dumb ones.

They need to ban the shooter not the gun. I think Blume is right actually about striker fired guns.

If people would grow up shooting and learn on single shot 22’s. Then progress to a revolver. After that on to magazine equipped guns.

But no! Now they become adults, have a semi decent job and go buy the latest plastic striker 9mm.

LOL

Ive never owned a single shot .22.

First handgun was a Glock .40

Have never had an issue being safe. Can be just as stupid with a single shot .22 or a revolver, Im just saying.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

They need to study this like they do research on dark matter and neutrino detection.

Get a really deep mine with a lot of space inside. Set up thousands of tables, and put all the 320s on the tables, loaded and fully clocked. Then get out of the mine and wait to see if one of them goes off on its own.

On the down side, if one goes off, it would probably be like a floor that is covered with mousetraps. The first one goes off and triggers all the rest. In this case, it might cause the end of the world, or possibly the end of the universe.

But it would be worth doing the experiment for the sake of research.

You forgot the trigger pulling holsters in that scenario.....

 

[DGW1949]

It's a poor workman who blames his tools. But these days just about everyone wants to blame inanimate objects for anything untoward that occurs.

And then when their own stupidity causes some disaster they want to blame the manufacturer. And of course be rewarded with a huge settlement well over the actual loss caused by said stupidity.

There was a time, and I'm not that old, when I did something stupid my dad would look at me, shake his head and say "well you won't do that again, will you boy?"

Today parents first thought is, call a lawyer.

DING-DING-DING !......We have a winner folks.

DGW

 

[DGW1949]

You forgot the trigger pulling holsters in that scenario.....

.....which a thumb safety would prevent.

There, finished it for you.

DGW

 

[XUSNORDIE]

.....which a thumb safety would prevent.

There, finished it for you.

DGW

Tell that to the USAF!

 

[Jeepnik]

Tell that to the USAF

Hey, that whole thing was BS from start to finish. But again, an example of blaming the inanimate object for human stupidity. But this time compounded by institutional stupidity for believing the BS from the start.

 

[hittman]

Sig knows theres problems with that gun.
They went from total denial to blaming the user for improper cleaning and re-assembly.
They don’t know how to fix it. Simple as that.
Fanboys can keep their heads buried all they want …. But it don’t change those facts.

 

[Mike J]

I do believe there is a problem with the P320's. I don't claim to know what it is but there has been enough happen that I wouldn't want one. I did notice in the video he said he didn't think it was all P320's. I honestly wonder if it might be a tolerance stacking issue.

For some reason thinking about all this makes me think about the issue Remington had with model 700 triggers.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

Hey, that whole thing was BS from start to finish. But again, an example of blaming the inanimate object for human stupidity. But this time compounded by institutional stupidity for believing the BS from the start.

Oh I agree......I was just directing that to the comment insinuating the thumb safety was the cure all....the M17 (and M18) have thumb safeties.

Before my kid went to boot camp I drilled the COF commands in his head with both M9 and M18....putting the safety on/off during COF and prior to holstering is a command used often. During firearm phase there was an ND in a company prior to his. Sure enough the recruit did not listen to the commands, holstered with safety off and finger on trigger. BOOM....bloody leg. Followed by a ridiculous safety stand down/investigation for some morons inability to pay attention to commands. At least the weapon was cleared of fault.

Last month he graduated ECS (Expeditionary Combat Skills). By the time you hit ECS you have already been basic pistol qualed. The instructors talked about the "issues" with the "Sig" and pointed to everyone in the class and told them their brain is the issue with the M18 and any other weapon they would fire during the course. During pistol phase yet another ND. Investigation showed commands were not followed, finger on trigger when holstering. BOOM...dead concrete deck. Student dropped from school and sent back to their command a failure.

Can't believe this thing is being rehashed...again....

 

[eveled]

They should have stuck with hammer fired sidearms.

The Beretta was working fine. If they really wanted modular they could have went with the P-250.

 

[gnappi]

The only issues with the 92/96 is they're bulky and not fully ambi.

I discovered FN's FN-X series this year, they're like a mini H&K USP with an ambidextrous thumb safety / decocker. The FN-X upped the game over my M&P 2.0.

 

[blume357]

Being a fanatical Sig fan I think the Army should have gone with the P226 in the first place and just stuck with it... but we have to have newer and replace what we got... that is part of the Military and it's relationship with the industrial military complex. As for the P320, of which I have one, I do see how any pistol like this could actually go off on it's own if the mechanical tolerances are too much off. If there is anyone here who is not familiar with the difference.. in a double action pistol / single action one (safety or no safety) with one in the chamber it takes 8lbs or more to pull the trigger causing the hammer to come back and fall forward... On my Sig P320 it takes right dead on 4lbs of trigger pull and there is no travel either.

 

[eveled]

People distrusted Glocks at first, but gradually we learned the system and began to trust it.

People wrongly assumed the P320 was the same as a Glock, so they trusted it. It is not the same as a Glock.

 

[Mike J]

Being a fanatical Sig fan I think the Army should have gone with the P226 in the first place and just stuck with it... but we have to have newer and replace what we got... that is part of the Military and it's relationship with the industrial military complex. As for the P320, of which I have one, I do see how any pistol like this could actually go off on it's own if the mechanical tolerances are too much off.

I may be completely wrong. There has just been so much put out there about these I'd rather not chance it. It could be user error but it might not.
I went to youtube & read the comments. Sig is getting bashed pretty hard.

 

[Jeepnik]

People distrusted Glocks at first, but gradually we learned the system and began to trust it.

Speak for yourself. Anything with nothing more than a little, very easily moved lever "on the trigger" is as safe as something with a manual safety. Thing is, you will never know how many AD's have been prevented by thumb safeties and grip safeties. Because no one knows it happened. It's like trying to prove a negative. How do you prove nothing happened?

 

[eveled]

I was speaking mostly about the half cocked striker on the Glock vs the full cocked striker on the 320 and Glocks safe action system.

You aren’t in the group I was speaking for. I never said you were part of the group. I was speaking of the group of people who actually understood and trust Glocks. The flipper is just one part of Glocks safe action system.

The point is the sig 320 is very different from a Glock and the 320 is far less safe than a Glock.

I also never compared the Glock to a 1911 or any other gun with a safety lever or grip safety.