1911 45 acp

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In reality there are two many variables for the stories to have much validity. Only when shooting under controlled conditions is there more of a scientific basis for valid conclusions.

I might mention that way back in the 1980's there was a "new kind" of Gun Magazine called "Pistolero" devoid of the influence of the firearms advertisers so therefore the Editors could publish the "truth" about gun tests they ran and not soft soap the results or even deliberately lie through their teeth as found in most gun magazines.

In one issue Pistolero Magazine went to Mexico to avoid U.S. animal cruelty laws and shoot barnyard pigs in the barnyard at point blank range with a variety of handgun calibers. What they found astonished them. I might add that Pigs are actually anatomically much like the human anatomy only the pigs are of course much better behaved.

Pistolero Magazine found no difference in killing power between the .45 acp, the 9x19, the .38 special and the .357 magnum. They did say that the pigs jumped higher and squealed louder when hit with the 9mm as opposed to when they used the .45 acp. I might add in Europe, in Strasburg they shot goats under controlled conditions and came to much the same conclusion i.e. not much if any difference in handgun killing power.

And lets not forget one of the biggest Charlatan's of all, Col. Thompson when he ran his famous Chicago Stock Yard Tests so he could hoodwink the U.S. Board of Ordinance into adopting a semi-auto .45 caliber handgun for the military which a few years later became known as Browning's 1911 Colt. What the devious Colonel did not reveal was that his tests too revealed that the big .44 and .45 caliber revolvers he used did not kill the 1,200 lb Steers any better than the .30 Luger and the 9mm Luger. This he concealed from the Ordinance Board. As a matter of fact Col. Thompson was so shocked by his own tests he even ran out and bought "Man Stopper" expanding bullets to use in the big revolvers (of course not revealing this to the Ordinance Board) and the Man Stopper revolver rounds killed no better than the fmj ammo he used in the .30 Luger and 9mm Luger.

You can read about this in an old copy of The Gun Digest which was titled "Shooting Holes In The Stopping Power Theory".

I think Pistolero's real life tests simply showed that handguns are nowhere near as lethal as people have been lead to believe by glitzy gun rags nor as lethal as high velocity rifle calibers.

When dealing with human targets there are many variables such as the thickness of the clothing worn, distance to target, angle of shot, penetration of the round, expansion of the round, amount of adrenaline pumping through the person at the time, the mental attitude of the person shot and the exact placement of the shot.

I might add I know of 3 incidents. two of which when the lowly .25 acp was used. In one case 3 guys jumped a man coming out of a bar and he killed them all with one shot a piece. Was it just luck? Without knowing all the variables we will never know.

In the second example a lady cab driver was kidnapped by a serial killer who took away her glasses and took her to an isolated spot to rape and kill her. The Nut Case did not search her and she at the last minute pulled out a .25 acp and killed him with it.

In the 3rd incident an aggressive cop harassed the wrong guy at the wrong time during a traffic stop and the guy went nuts and slyly waited until the cop was walking back to his cruizer. The stopped driver then attempted to shoot the cop in the back but his shot went low and he hit the cop in the buttocks. The bullet hit bone and then ricocheted up through the cops body turning the internal organs to jelly. The cop dropped as if lightning had stuck him and of course died on the spot. What was this astonishing lethal caliber? It was a high velocity .30 Tokarev. You know, a small .30 caliber handgun that the gun writers claim is anemic because of its small caliber.

In conclusion if you think that your "latest and greatest" handgun in 45 super daydream nightmare caliber that you are told has a 20 foot muzzle flash and will burn down half the forest or blow down the neighbors cow fence or cause a Whitetail Deer to be spun around like a top and then be knocked off his feet and then disappear in a red puff of mist with one shot you are living in a fantasy world because there is no such thing, at least not in any handgun caliber.
 
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If I had, I would never say so on the internet. Things can be twisted and misrepresented by others years later.
 
I have a mid 70s Colt, a Norinco, an Argentine 1927, and a homebuilt 1911. A couple years ago, Rural King had the Tisas GI 1911A1 for $299 so I bought one.

I was surprised and impressed by the quality. It came with two mags and a bushing tool. I put a couple hundred rounds through it without a hitch. For an entry level 1911, it can't be beat.

Of course, Ruger has Ruger customer service going for it and people know the name so you won't have to say, "It's from Turkey but it's really good." As others have said, there are loads of quality 1911s out there. Pick one that makes you happy and fits your budge.
 
The reason they are expensive is they are in such demand. How can something be "overrated" when in high demand? Demand is the basis of value. People see value in the name "Colt".

Certainly there are other makers for less money. Are they the same quality? Functionally perhaps they are.
JohnL, I own Colt's, Kimbers, Springfields, Norwegian. have owned and sold Rock Island, Staccato/STI, Wilson, Remington, Para, Tisas, Smith & Wesson, Taurus which pretty covers the parts/cast/forgings gamut of questions. My conclusion, MIM, investment cast parts ore okay for 99% of owners/operators, they don't shoot enough to perceive a difference. I have experienced sear failures for wire EDM fabricated homogenous steel (they are hard like glass), I have performed "trigger jobs" on all types of parts. In each case the trigger "pull" improved. Parts made of homogenous steel are superior and a gunsmith can get the best results with these parts. The parts I have replaced in the last 15 years are one link, and several barrels due to damage from firing a round with a bullet stuck in the barrel, worn out barrel bushings, sears and hammers and one barrel (Springfield) that the lug on the bottom of the barrel that the link mounts to, broke completely off (design flaw?). The worse examples I have come across were homemade kit built, one sloppy slide assembled from the factory (S&W). I rarely get complains or compliments, but recently I sold RIA 1911A1 9mm to two different gentleman who both rave about the accuracy, reliability and value of these handguns. The gents in question are experienced hand gunners. Colts I own; 1917 vintage 1911, 1943 vintage, 1968 vintage "Goldcup". All have been shot in the 60 years extensively. I have one Springfield Compact with over 30K rounds fired (the one with the lug failure at 23k). John knowing you and comments made on previous posts you won't believe a word I have posted on this subject. Bottom line, 1911s just work.
 
I wouldn't dream of telling someone what is the "best gun" for them. I will simply say that for the past half century it has been the 1911 for me. One rests on a folded tea towel on the desk next to me right now.
 
I wouldn't dream of telling someone what is the "best gun" for them. I will simply say that for the past half century it has been the 1911 for me. One rests on a folded tea towel on the desk next to me right now.
A tea towel?

The only experience with the .45 I've had was a Colt Gold Cup, far removed from a M1911. But in my Army days I did have a few .45s, 24 of them in fact as I was for awhile the company armorer. These were all M1911A1s, of course. I did shoot an M1911A1 on an Army pistol team and we did pretty good as a team. Not good enough to get to Hawaiii, though.


Bob Wright
 
I have shot lots of semi autos in my time and when I bought my first 1911, I went with a Ruger SR and was not disappointed. Since I bought it, I have owned and shot 2 Kimbers, which I have sold, Para Ordnance, Remington and Sig Sauer. My favorite is still the Ruger.
 
I just bought a Tisas Service model.
What I really like about is there is no huge billboard, or forward serrations.
All forged steel construction. $329 at Dunham's, on special.
It my Amish 1911.
Getting one as well for fun range time and Nostalgia. Many great thumbs up on this gun. Always wanted one.

Does this count?

9QKEhPn.jpg
 
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I might add in Europe, in Strasburg they shot goats under controlled conditions and came to much the same conclusion i.e. not much if any difference in handgun killing power.
Getting old I guess because I remember reading that.
 
What I know to be fact is that .45 ACP takes bowling pins right off the table and 9x19mm just knocks them over.
That's evidence of momentum, and nothing else. No surprise, since anyone can see that 230 x 900 is greater than 115 x 1200.
Momentum doesn't kill, or throwing someone a medicine ball in the gym would make you a murderer.

An expanded .45 is wider than an expanded 9 mm, so if both penetrated equally, I'd bet the .45 was more lethal. All I know is that I don't want to get shot with either. Or a .22LR, for that matter, but if I had to choose, I'd choose the .22!
 
That's evidence of momentum, and nothing else.

So now you bring science into it. I didn't believe the man who is the embodiment of science, Anthony Faucci MD so why should I believe you and your "science"?
 
Not really pertinent, but a high school classmate was riding in a convertible and someone following them shot him in the head with a .25acp.
The bullet traveled between his skull and scalp and stopped near the top of his head.
I heard they cut his scalp, popped out the bullet, a few stitches and sent him home
 
Raise your hand if you have ever defended your life with a handgun.
🙋
All others are simply speculating on what works. Or to be less kind regurgitating internet myths.
I did -- but not exactly. A gang land-yacht started following me -- stopping when I stopped and going when I started moving. I turned, faced the land-yacht and put my right hand inside my coat's empty left-hand chest pocket and held it there as if I had a handgun. The yacht stopped, waited, and then drove by me. So, for sure, if I had a handgun, its presence defended me from harm but the perceived presence of a handgun did the same in that instance.
 

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