They Are ALL Stoppers

[Joe Chartreuse]

I feel a rant coming on:
I see so many "experts" here ( and for transparency, I never claimed to be one) saying that small caliber guns are "Better than a stick" and it's starting to get to me, a small caliber enthusiast. Some politician tried to use bird shot out of a 28 gauge for defense and it didn't work. Did you know they make Thug Slugs (5/8 oz ) for a 28 gauge? A stopper. Even bigger for a .410, as well as 00 buck. That's stopper shotguns. Rifles and handguns in .22? Well, you know a .22/250 will take out anyone, but about others?

• Browning Performance Rimfire 36 Grain CPHP.
• CCI Stinger 32 Grain CPHP.
• Winchester Super-X 40 Grain CPHP.
• Aguila 38 Grain CPHP.
• Federal Punch Defense 29 Grain Nickel Plated Flat Nose
  Hornady Critical Defense poly filled hollow points""
  
  These are just SOME .22 defensive rounds.
  Now that everyone and their mother has body armor the targets have changed. Instead of front center mass, EVERYONE who knows anything is aiming for the side center mass, or the face, groin, knees, whatever. ALL of which are equally affected by smaller rounds.
  
  I could load salt rounds into my .410 and shoot someone in the face. or throat, or any other exposed area. Could do it with freakin' GRAVEL and stop them.
  
  My point? Sure there are bunches of guns that are shooting killer ammo, but most here are loaded up for DEFENSE, not a kill (though I am sure some are). As a defensive weapons, ANY gun- with the proper ammo- is a stopper ( OK, OK, leave out derringers and NAA revolvers that only shoot .22 shorts, or the 2.7mm Kolibri- though both my stop with an eye shot) BTW- If you can only use, say, an LCP, and post that you can MAYBE get accuracy at 10 yards, it's not the gun size. The bullet does drop a lot, but it's up to the SHOOTER to practice at longer ranges. Yes, the sight sucks, so you get an ArmaLaser trigger guard laser or similar and learn to compensate for the approximate 1" drop at 30 yards. The point is that it's not the caliber, it's the shooter and proper ammo of that caliber.
  OK, rant over.

 

[Jeepnik]

It's pretty well known that I invented The Perfect Jeep Gun by modifying a Mossberg .410 Model 500. So you're preaching to the choir on that one. But I have only used two rifle rounds with the intention of stopping someone. The 5.56 x 45 and the 7.62 x 51. I found the 5.56 less than desirable. While the 7.62 worked admirably. Similarly I have only use two handgun rounds. The 9 mm ball and the .45 acp ball. Again the 9mm was left wanting while the .45 acp was very satisfactory.

I'm sure there are folks here who have used dozens of rounds for the purpose of stopping human beings. I'll let them chime in with their observations.

 

[ArizonaTea123]

Federal Punch 22 Magnum is not to be trifled with. It will stop many creatures, two and four legged.
I have a very early Charter Arms Pathfinder in 22 Mag with a 4-inch barrel.

 

[Jeepnik]

Just curious, how many humans have been "stopped" by the 22 mag Punch so far?

And before anyone accuses me of not liking the .22 mag, remember I carry this every day.

 

[ArizonaTea123]

Just curious, how many humans have been "stopped" by the 22 mag Punch so far?

And before anyone accuses me of not liking the .22 mag, remember I carry this every day.

Good question. Who would keep track of such info?

 

[ArizonaTea123]

 

[Mobuck]

One of the factors often overlooked when discussing terminal effectiveness is low powered (and often round nose profile) bullets tend to 'skitter off course' when striking bone.
Yes, a head shot seems to be a good option BUT is far less effective if the bullet fails to penetrate the skull.

 

[eveled]

2 things you didn’t mention.

Rimfires are much more susceptible to misfires than center fire.

Stopping a threat immediately is better than stopping one slowly.

Much like Smokey the bear said “Only you can prevent forest fires”

Only you can choose what is right for you to carry on any given day. Odds are you won’t need it anyway.

What if Elijah Dicken was carrying a mini .22 revolver in that mall in Indiana?

 

[blume357]

One thing is true is this discussion .... You never know until you know.....

 

[Mobuck]

Here's a scenario for those who think the 'little guns' (22.r & 25 ACP) are 'good enough': Victim is sitting in his vehicle, attacker reaches through passenger window and fires as victim has both arms raised (range approx 3'). First bullet penetrated victim's right bicep, struck forehead above left eye, slid between skin and skull approx 1.5" before exiting leaving a 1" tear in skin. Bullet then penetrated left bicep but stopped under the skin on back of left upper arm. Second shot fired at an upward frontal angle as victim turns head toward attacker struck 1/2 inch below hairline on center of forehead, traveled between skin and skull approx 2" exiting through scalp and finally lodging in vehicle headliner. Victim did not lose consciousness but apparently attacker assumed the shots were fatal and left scene ending attack. Both FMJ bullets were recovered plus one empty 25 ACP case.
Would this have stopped an attacker? Maybe or maybe only provoked him more.

 

[rugerguy]

oh well here we go again, now I forgot if it was 'Ford' or 'Chevy'......

......opinions are like butts ,we all have one....


"...and so it goes... Wil Terry".......may he rest in Peace

 

[Dan in MI]

I'm not going to wade completely in the pool, but the 28 gauge is leaving a burning question. How far? At hallway distances dang most every shotgun round is nearly a slug.


Ford......

 

[peachhead]

I'm not going to wade completely in the pool, but the 28 gauge is leaving a burning question. How far? At hallway distances dang most every shotgun round is nearly a slug.


Ford......

That's what I was thinking.
I don't see what's wrong with saying, it's better than a stick. I don't normally say that. I normally say, I can't throw rocks that fast.
But I'm also a big proponent of the 22mag.
Didn't I read somewhere that more people have been killed with 22s than anything else (outside of war)?

 

[p345Fan]

Get the right round for the job you want to do and the gun you are going to use it in. I could give examples, but we all know what they would be depending on our needs and the weapon we are using for any particular purpose.

 

[Joey]

I have a friend who stopped a possible bar massacre with a .25 auto. Shot the perp between the eyes. Would I advise the .25 for self defense carry or home defense? No, I want something a bit stouter. On the flip side, a guy I worked with asked several of us if we had a .44 mag, he wanted to buy for home defense. We asked him about the little old lady 2 house down that he could hit while opening her fridge. Like using a baseball bat to kill a spider. There is a happy median, every body will never agree on what that is. Meanwhile I will stick to my .38 and .45 colt or ACP for home defense, and my 12 gauge. 9 mm & .45 ACP for carry.

 

[Fox Mike]

This is a 22 WMR and it hits where pointed. I would never hesitate to carry it.

 

[vito]

If the 3/3/3 rule still is valid (defensive shot at 3 yards or less, within 3 seconds, 3 rounds or less) for most self defense situations, and it likely does still hold true, even a small caliber gun can stop the threat. I usually carry a 9mm semi auto, but sometimes I just slip the LCP2 in 22LR in my pocket and I do not overly worry about having "only" a 22 for self defense.

 

[Joey]

This is a 22 WMR and it hits where pointed. I would never hesitate to carry it.

View attachment 87506

! am wanting one like this for a driveway gun, I live about 280 feet off the road. We have raccoons coyotes, foxes, and worst of all, squirrels. I am concerned about a ricochet hitting a neighbors house. 3" barrel, front sight optional. Maybe a single six cut down?

 

[Armybrat]

! am wanting one like this for a driveway gun, I live about 280 feet off the road. We have raccoons coyotes, foxes, and worst of all, squirrels. I am concerned about a ricochet hitting a neighbors house. 3" barrel, front sight optional. Maybe a single six cut down?

Here’s one option along those lines….
http://heritagemfg.com/revolvers/he...gh-rider-22-lr-22-wmr-black-standard-cocobolo

 

[s4s4u]

"stopper"

 

[bobski]

why limit yourself?
use the 12ga and be sure.
unless owners arent man enough or afraid of recoil. lol.
people that use small cal and ga are like people who walk out on thin ice waiting to hear it crack before stopping and saying thats as far as i go, ignoring all the warnings from people before them saying...stay off the ice.
just stay on land and be sure.

 

[Joey]

Here’s one option along those lines….
http://heritagemfg.com/revolvers/he...gh-rider-22-lr-22-wmr-black-standard-cocobolo

Thanks much, armybrat. I hadn't considered anything but Ruger. This may be a good option.

 

[Jack Ryan]

People who have confidence in what they carry wish everyone else carried a 22 or a 410.

Only the weak need the pat on the back and the confidence boost to hear, "Yeah what ever. "

 

[kmoore]

I don't keep up with the latest and greatest .22lr ammo nor if the .22wmr. But back when I did, the .22wmr has a big advantage. The bullet is a copper coated lead bullet. CCI called it a copper wash applied to the lead.
Bullets used in ,22lr are a much softer swaged lead bullet, not to be compared to a hard lead cast bullet used in hunting bears or other big game in centerfire handgun or rifle rounds.
Putting any type of copper jacket over the swaged lead bullet will help with penetration.
I am glad some crooks use the .22lr to shoot people. I have 3 friends that lived after being shot by crooks using them. All 3 went back to work. 2 where shot in the face without any bone penetrated. The other in his vest at an angle that the bullet skipped off the vest and lodged in his forearm.

 

[Armybrat]

Thanks much, armybrat. I hadn't considered anything but Ruger. This may be a good option.

I have no experience with that brand - just remembered they had the magnum cylinder.

 

[GunnyGene]

Here’s one option along those lines….
http://heritagemfg.com/revolvers/he...gh-rider-22-lr-22-wmr-black-standard-cocobolo

Got one. Carry it on my JD riding mower (2 acres + 18 more forested). Usually with 3 shot shells up first ( for venomous snakes), 3 jhp.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/136497882795

There’s more information on stopping power than people remember.

 

[ArizonaTea123]

The little 25 ACP is not a "stopper" but more of a discourager.
However the weapon of choice for the mob (Italian, Irish, Jewish, etc...) was a suppressed 22lr at close range.
The Soviet KGB used the Makarov in 9mm Mak. (fat 380).
German Nazi officers carried mostly Walther PP's in 32 ACP.
The 32 ACP I would not consider a stopper unless they're standing right in front of you.

 

[Joey]

The little 25 ACP is not a "stopper" but more of a discourager.
However the weapon of choice for the mob (Italian, Irish, Jewish, etc...) was a suppressed 22lr at close range.
The Soviet KGB used the Makarov in 9mm Mak. (fat 380).
German Nazi officers carried mostly Walther PP's in 32 ACP.
The 32 ACP I would not consider a stopper unless they're standing right in front of you.

The .25 and the .32 acp are what I call get off me guns. The person I referred to with the .25 was a well trained shooter in Viet Nam at the time. A guy walked into the place with an AK, and was stopped by a well placed shot.

 

[gnappi]

Yawn