They Are ALL Stoppers

[Joe Chartreuse]

Personally, I would not depend on a .25 as a defense round. I know of a SO deputy that got shot with .25 up close and personal. Now understand he was shot by a dirtbag who most likely was shooting said gun for the first time. Unlike the OPs friend this dirtbag did not kill the LEO, the dirtbag did hit the officer in the head but all the round did was take a lap and a half under skin plowing a furrow ending dead center of the LEO's forehead. The shot did though take the LEO out of the fight, which I guess is the idea in a self -defense shooting, stopping the threat, or in this case the arrest. Though only for a bit, the dirtbag was later caught and arrested.

Same here. It's not the caliber, it's just a crappy round,. Usually underpowered and a tumbler, coming out of a crap gun. The only reason it exists is because it's just big enough to be a center fire, which is what Browning? ( I think) wanted.
NOTE: I have been speaking of pistol rounds. I have no idea how it would work in a rifle. No experience with it.

 

[Old1215]

Next time I get an extra 5 grand I’m thinking I’m gonna build an AR pistol in .22ARC for a truck gun. That’s a hot round and seems to out perform the 22-250 for varmits. For SD though, I’d guess over penetration would be a problem. Unless you could get ‘em to all line up. Probably take 4-5 with one round. Or maybe I’m just a spoon and like to stir.

 

[ArizonaTea123]

This is a 22 WMR and it hits where pointed. I would never hesitate to carry it.

View attachment 87506

That's a good looking piece of iron ya got there pardner.

 

[s4s4u]

Next time I get an extra 5 grand I’m thinking I’m gonna build an AR pistol in .22ARC for a truck gun. That’s a hot round and seems to out perform the 22-250 for varmits. For SD though, I’d guess over penetration would be a problem. Unless you could get ‘em to all line up. Probably take 4-5 with one round. Or maybe I’m just a spoon and like to stir.

The 22 ARC is a nice round. It will take a lot less than 5 grand to get into one tho, unless you are putting a $4,000 scope on it

 

[peachhead]

I like what I've seen on 22arc although I have not shot one.

Though rarely mentioned here, I use Aguila for my range shooting. Well known as a top rimfire brand, and have't had a single misfire. No problem with CCI MiniMags or Blazers yet either. BUT, I will NEVER buy Remington or Winchester rimfires again.

my experience with Aguila is different. Had some issues with semi autos. Actually I don't think there is any 22 I have not had some issues with, maybe Ely but I don't shoot that brand much. Minimal issues with CCI so that's generally what I shoot.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

I like what I've seen on 22arc although I have not shot one.


my experience with Aguila is different. Had some issues with semi autos. Actually I don't think there is any 22 I have not had some issues with, maybe Ely but I don't shoot that brand much. Minimal issues with CCI so that's generally what I shoot.

Most of my problems are caused by me if I am using a good brand. For instance, somehow I managed to load and LCP II with subsonic ammo. Jam, Jam, Jam..... I just grabbed the wrong ammo. BBTW- I store all ammo in ammo boxes with moisture and O2 absorbers.

 

[The.Tumbleweed]

Chase down the one with nine rounds, especially in magnum, andthey have birdshead or plowhandle grips andb1-1/2" to16" barrels

It all looks good, until I read "zinc alloy".

 

[el caminero]

It all looks good, until I read "zinc alloy".

Colt, ruger, and high standard made aluminium alloy guns for years. They contained zink, since they used the basic ZAMAK alloy, even the currnt wrangler; Zink, Aluminium, Magnesium, And Kupfer (copper); could as well call it a magnesium or copper alloy.

 

[The.Tumbleweed]

Personally, I would not depend on a .25 as a defense round. I know of a SO deputy that got shot with .25 up close and personal. Now understand he was shot by a dirtbag who most likely was shooting said gun for the first time. Unlike the OPs friend this dirtbag did not kill the LEO, the dirtbag did hit the officer in the head but all the round did was take a lap and a half under skin plowing a furrow ending dead center of the LEO's forehead. The shot did though take the LEO out of the fight, which I guess is the idea in a self -defense shooting, stopping the threat, or in this case the arrest. Though only for a bit, the dirtbag was later caught and arrested.

I have always wondered why Browning didn't make the .25acp casing twice as long. It would still have been a small round, and would have made more sense.

Anyone else wonder such things?

 

[The.Tumbleweed]

Colt, ruger, and high standard made aluminium alloy guns for years. They contained zink, since they used the basic ZAMAK alloy, even the currnt wrangler; Zink, Aluminium, Magnesium, And Kupfer (copper); could as well call it a magnesium or copper alloy.

When I see "zinc alloy" I think Raven, or Jennings

 

[el caminero]

I have always wondered why Browning didn't make the .25acp casing twice as long. It would still have been a small round, and would have made more sense.

Anyone else wonder such things?

jmb dident like that the 22lr wasent reliable, so he shrank the tech that made his 45acp, 380, 32, and 38 colt auto and 38 super become world class cartridges.

 

[el caminero]

When I see "zinc alloy" I think Raven, or Jennings

And hypoint and bryco.

 

[DGW1949]

And hypoint and bryco.

The Titan .25ACP and RG revolvers.....and don't forget the infamous "Roscoe"..LOL.

DGW

 

[Star43]

When I see "zinc alloy" I think Raven, or Jennings

I agree 100%....I have always been a steel and wood kind of guy. I can deal with a quality aluminum frame. That's ok, but the zinc, Zamak stuff is kind of heavy and seems kind of cheap to me. For those of who have it and like it, that's ok. For me, give me the steel or at least the aluminum. For me, anyway....

 

[TheTexasRAT]

I agree 100%....I have always been a steel and wood kind of guy. I can deal with a quality aluminum frame. That's ok, but the zinc, Zamak stuff is kind of heavy and seems kind of cheap to me. For those of who have it and like it, that's ok. For me, give me the steel or at least the aluminum. For me, anyway....

I prefer 100 percent Stainless Steel and wooden grips.

 

[Mobuck]

The point is: Do you carry a pipsqueak pistol with ineffective ammo to make yourself 'feel good' or do you carry a bigger gun and more effective ammo with at least a modicum of assurance of it's usefulness?
Grouch Attack's paternal Grandfather carried a Colt 1903(?) in 32 ACP in his overalls pocket every time he went to town. A while after Grandpa passed, my FIL asked me to look the gun over to see if it was safe to shoot. After cleaning the pocket lint and assorted gunk out and hand cycling a bit, we shot it. First up was the ammo that had been in the pistol for ?? time (most likely decades). IIRC 2 of the 5 didn't fire and the 3 that did fire barely penetrated one water filled milk jug-stopping in the second jug and leaving only a weeping hole in it's wake. It's presence made the old man feel safe and since it was never needed, the actual performance was not an issue.
When my older Son decided he needed a concealed carry pistol, he bought a small .380 as it was easily concealable. Soon after he bought the pistol, I was visiting his place and he was showing me the little peashooter. Again, the test media was water filled milk jugs and his 380 with ?? brand hollowpoints seemed to produce good effect splitting the jugs and sometimes passing through two jugs. There were two jugs left so I drew my 9mm ( think I was packing a STAR BM at the time) and shot the two jugs sitting in line. The bullet exploded the first and shredded the second. Son began having second thoughts about his cute little .380 right then.
All this proves is that bigger cartridges have more effect. I carry a 9mm which I consider the lower end of 'good enough' but I won't go into the reasons I don't carry a 45.

 

[eveled]

jmb dident like that the 22lr wasent reliable, so he shrank the tech that made his 45acp, 380, 32, and 38 colt auto and 38 super become world class cartridges.

The guy hit a few home runs. The .25 was the little dribbler down the foul line.

It’s a shame because the small center fire cartridge seems like a great idea.

I carried a small .22 automatic briefly. Until I realized I could carry an airweight Jframe just as easily.

 

[Sam Summey]

I have a friend who was MACV SOG CCN Intelligence operator (Laos, Cambodia, NVN) who did two tours. He said that he was given a 25ACP on one of his first "prisoner snatches", he said after the first he left it in his locker in Thailand. The logistics of the operation was pretty confusing, he was based in Thailand, he would be transported to Danang for transport to the area of operation. I guess this was to maintain some level of clandestine activity.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

When I see "zinc alloy" I think Raven, or Jennings

Add Bearman / Cobra to that list, and whoever bought THEM out.

 

[Jeepnik]

I have a friend who was MACV SOG CCN Intelligence operator (Laos, Cambodia, NVN) who did two tours. He said that he was given a 25ACP on one of his first "prisoner snatches", he said after the first he left it in his locker in Thailand. The logistics of the operation was pretty confusing, he was based in Thailand, he would be transported to Danang for transport to the area of operation. I guess this was to maintain some level of clandestine activity.

Wasn't uncommon for folks "stationed" in Thailand to "visit" Vietnam, Cambodia & Laos.

Most were aircrews but others did whatever they did. They were generally happy to see us. Nice folks for the most part.

 

[s4s4u]

When I see "zinc alloy" I think Raven, or Jennings

And, Davis...

 

[Mobuck]

Hey, don't knock on those Jennings too hard. I used to carry one in my hip pocket when we went fishing. One evening Daughter made a booboo cast and got her favorite Snoopy bobber caught too far up in a tree to reach. Second shot from the little Jennings cut the 6# monofilament and rescued Snoopy from the tree.

 

[neilin]

They are all stoppers if you hit them in the right place.
When they are running at you or moving , that right place might not be so easy to hit.

I don’t think anyone could come up with a good argument against this statement. I feel if the shot does not hit in the right place, the larger the caliber, the better chance for the defense.

 

[neilin]

While I hear that about rimfire misfires, it hasn't been in my experience- and I use more rimfires than anything else. Then again, I don't buy crap ammo. Many companies that have good ammo reputations have them built on center fire or their weapons, but make truly low quality rimfires. Both Winchester and Remington are examples.

Once again, it's about placement. Given the targets I mentioned above it's a stop then and there.

I agree that Winchester and Remington are low quality rimfires. Would you give a couple of examples of what you feel are top quality rim fire brands? Thanks!

 

[neilin]

Though rarely mentioned here, I use Aguila for my range shooting. Well known as a top rimfire brand, and have't had a single misfire. No problem with CCI MiniMags or Blazers yet either. BUT, I will NEVER buy Remington or Winchester rimfires again.

We agree on placement. I go SIDE center mass. Still a big target, plenty of organs, but no breastbone, and if wearing a vest, no plate there. Harder targets but great stoppers are knees ( as in fighting, no legs mean no battle and a VERY painful hit), face / neck are instant stops. Harder to hit, but if you can,,,

A hit in the knees will still allow an assailant to shoot. Even a hit to the stomach. Of course, a shot to those places might allow you a split second chance for a more accurate follow up shot.

 

[neilin]

Great minds. I use Shockwaves, which are short pumps as they come from the factory.

Love my Shockwave. I have to hold it right, though.

 

[neilin]

I've never shot a human..... but the day ain't over yet.... All I know is that once I put a bullet into an animal the fight pretty much went out of them.. regardless of how hard they were hit (near missed)...
There are exceptions, brown bears (and I'd imagine cape buffalo), get pretty amped up when shot sometimes.... I've never shot a brown bear.. but I know plenty who have.... and they can act very differently than ballistics charts tell us...
As for humans.... I'd think the fight is usually done once they guy realizes they've been shot.. I sure as heck don't want to get shot with anything!!
I'd fer sure carry a .22 or a .32 if that's what I had.... Ask me why I shot such and such with a particular firearm.... it's because it's what I had with me.....

Once a guy realizes he has been shot, he gets angry and fights harder.

 

[neilin]

I don't do "self defense", but if I did, it would be a PUMP SHOTGUN (cut down for my Bermuda shorts and knee-high white socks).
J.

Well, I do not know why a person would not defend himself.

 

[Jeepnik]

Well, I do not know why a person would not defend himself.

I suspect he "doesn't do self-defense" because this is the internet and open for all to see.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

I agree that Winchester and Remington are low quality rimfires. Would you give a couple of examples of what you feel are top quality rim fire brands? Thanks!

It all depends on what you want to do with it. Myself, I don't bother researching rimfire for self defense because I have never considered carrying it for that reason, and never will. I have witnessed what 22LR does to folks large and small. Plinking, hunting and target competition is what consider the only use for rimfires.

That said, Winchester Supreme and Remington Premier 22WMR were a favorite and very reliable round for me. Even in my Remington 597. Remington Yellow Jackets 22LR were also accurate and devastating on ground squirrels and larger varmints. Remington Green Label in my comp rifles was just a tad better than CCI SV and Wolf Match. But for serious target/comp I go with SKS and Eley.

It's the "Bulk" stuff you want to mostly stay away from, especially for semi autos. The best bulk in my experience is Federal Champion. It's very reliable in my factory and custom rimfire rifles/pistols.