Most of us have never had the experience you describe. None of us really know how we will react if ever faced with that situation.
What you carry isn't the entire story
- Thread starter Mobuck
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Didn't say it got harder. Said you don't "want" to do it.
The importance of "mindset" is critically important to self -defense, the Cooper color code was all about mind set and preparing your mind for doing the unthinkable, taking the life of another human being because you have determined in your mind that it is your life or the perpetrator's. Once you have "seen the elephant", you understand he importance of not only practicing with your firearm, but preparing your mind to fight and to WIN.
Cooper convinced you that is what your moral duty to WIN THE FIGHT!
Cooper convinced you that is what your moral duty to WIN THE FIGHT!
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There are many things in life that YOUR mindset at that moment will cause defeat or a win. With SD, many will never see that elephant in the room, but train and practice. When or if that elephant shows up many will do what they learned. Some won't, I seen that in police work. I only guess in a military battle the same applies.
It's often been said, you don't know until you know. And even if you do everything right there are absolutely no guarantees.
baumer
Bearcat
Well I guess that was a cheap lesson for him
I hope he went on and discovered other firearms.
Tom in Ohio
Bearcat
When I went to the police academy in 2001 after leaving active duty in the Marines, we had a guest speaker lead off our use of force/firearms training, Mike Plum. You may have heard of him:
He began by asking a question, "by show of hands, who knows that they could kill another human being if you had to?" I was one of a small percentage who raised their hands. He replied by saying that everyone had better be able to answer "yes" if you want to carry a gun and a badge and recommended some serious soul searching. He (correctly) said that you might not have the time if you wait until the moment of truth to figure out if you can kill.
He was right. It's not bravado. It's not being macho. It's making a sober, thoughtful determination about yourself and the most serious thing people can do and making decisions accordingly.
He began by asking a question, "by show of hands, who knows that they could kill another human being if you had to?" I was one of a small percentage who raised their hands. He replied by saying that everyone had better be able to answer "yes" if you want to carry a gun and a badge and recommended some serious soul searching. He (correctly) said that you might not have the time if you wait until the moment of truth to figure out if you can kill.
He was right. It's not bravado. It's not being macho. It's making a sober, thoughtful determination about yourself and the most serious thing people can do and making decisions accordingly.
Stantheman1986
Single-Sixer
I honestly feel I'd have a much easier , instinctive response to shooting another human being if he/it/she etc were inside my house , obviously a threat and I was protecting myself and my kid. As in , it's a clear, cut and dried threat because no one is accidentally coming into my home or onto my property to harm me
On the street, I just don't know. There are a million variables. If I was in a WalMart parking lot and someone started beating on me , I can't say for sure if I'd be able to pull my gun and shoot. Or if I heard gunfire in a public place and saw a person just randomly shooting. Would I find cover or try to engage, risking drawing fire to myself? It would be more of a fear response because I'd have to be in full fight or flight to actually fire my gun at a person.
The only times I've fired a weapon in a "real" scenario was during my deployment , at buildings where we "may" have been taking fire from in what were probably about 30 second long engagements of basically just frantic shooting. I've never fired at or even aimed with intent at a singular, clear human target . I honestly don't want to, I'm perfectly fine with living the rest of my life never firing a gun at anything besides a silhouette shaped Range target
On the street, I just don't know. There are a million variables. If I was in a WalMart parking lot and someone started beating on me , I can't say for sure if I'd be able to pull my gun and shoot. Or if I heard gunfire in a public place and saw a person just randomly shooting. Would I find cover or try to engage, risking drawing fire to myself? It would be more of a fear response because I'd have to be in full fight or flight to actually fire my gun at a person.
The only times I've fired a weapon in a "real" scenario was during my deployment , at buildings where we "may" have been taking fire from in what were probably about 30 second long engagements of basically just frantic shooting. I've never fired at or even aimed with intent at a singular, clear human target . I honestly don't want to, I'm perfectly fine with living the rest of my life never firing a gun at anything besides a silhouette shaped Range target
I was told by a high school friend that his father mentioned doing the same thing in war to my father.... just shooting and not knowing if you hit anyone... my father answered that he knew every man he had killed and where he hit them and what rank they were. My father was a recon Marine in Korea from 1950 to 51 and he carried an '03 Springfield with a scope on it.
^^Blume, did he say anything about having 'dreams'(nightmares) about this later? I mean like re-living the action, seeing the face(s), and feeling the heat/cold of the actual time?
It's not about feeling guilty for doing what was ordered, it's about some deep seated feeling of doing things that just aren't right but doing it because it's expected. It's not felt at the time but comes later. I can't put words to the thought.
It's not about feeling guilty for doing what was ordered, it's about some deep seated feeling of doing things that just aren't right but doing it because it's expected. It's not felt at the time but comes later. I can't put words to the thought.
My Dad never spoke about anything after the initial attack on Hawaii. His Service before that was a bunch of silly antics from a bunch of hicks dumped in 1930's Hawaii. Even how funny it was with all of them running around taking Pot Shots with whatever WWI surplus they could lay hands on. I hear all these PTSD stories and think what the crap. I guess all that Toxic Masculinity drinking on the job and smoking made them tougher or something. Everyone is different. The ability to Compartmentalize is the key IMO. If you can just put those things away until or if you need them again and get on with the set you need currently. Kinda like having different cars. I don't live my life in a continuous Martial Mindset but it finds it's way back when needed.
Paul B
Hunter
"sorry things didn't work out. The world would thank you."
And the Soros liberals will crucify you.
Paul B.
And the Soros liberals will crucify you.
Paul B.
My father only told jokes about the things he and his buddies did. Like walking into a MASH tent to get treated for pneumonia he had gotten on the Sub just before Inchon and there was a guy sitting in a chair with the back of his head open and his brains exposed and a doctor behind him poking around in there smoking a cigarette and the ash fell into the back of the guy's head... my father turned around and headed North to catch up with his unit.
He is actually the skinning kid laying down in the front:
He is actually the skinning kid laying down in the front:
ssl92677
Bearcat
Bottom line is: people shouldn't carry unless they train and that doesn't just mean range shooting, that includes situational awareness, practice drawing & dry-fire exercises. At the end of the day, staying left of bang is better than engaging when it wasn't necessary. Knowing how to engage is crucial.
So a 70 year old wheelchair bound woman doesn't have the right to be armed?
ssl92677
Bearcat
I never said anything like that, REALLY?
If your reply is indicative of what I can expect from people on this forum then maybe I should just leave because I don't care for this kind of nonsense.
Now you're marked IGNORED
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There wouldn't be anything stopping her from any of this. We all have a responsibility to not be a DANGER to ourselves and others. If you can't be trusted with the car keys you probably shouldn't be messing with guns. If a 70 year old wheelchair bound woman can't effectively present and accurately fire a firearm she probably shouldn't have it. I recently did a qualifier for another CCW and there was an elderly couple doing a renewal. They were absolutely terrifying on the range. They were eventually taken to the side so they could qualify individually probably so they could be properly supervised like you would a 5 year old. From what I saw they were barely on paper at 9'. I practice and train routinely. If I don't get any proper range sessions every month or 2 I'll run a mag to verify accuracy etc. Hopefully I'll maintain my abilities to the end even if wheelchair bound. But if I can't safely manage and effectively operate a firearm I probably shouldn't be armed with one.
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I suspect that a great percentage of defensive shootings are at extremely close distances, and that probably holds true for a firearm presented for defense that does not end up being fired. I remember reading years ago that most defensive shootings take place at under 3 yards. Training is always a good thing, but not a lot of training is needed to stop an assailant at such close range. I would never oppose anyone getting any level of gun training, but I would be vigorously opposed to requiring such training as a condition of gun ownership or the right to carry. Once you open the door to mandated training, the anti-gun crowd can set the requirements so high that few if any would be able to legally carry a gun.
The recent wave of elderly etc shooting at anything that moves isn't helping.
"Once you open the door to mandated training, the anti-gun crowd can set the requirements so high that few if any would be able to legally carry a gun."
Truth.
Then there's the issue of the Second Amendment. Which doesn't say anything about mandatory training.
Truth.
Then there's the issue of the Second Amendment. Which doesn't say anything about mandatory training.
