Tunnel rat guns

[GunnyGene]

For the VN vets. Don't know if any of y'all ever did this, but even if you didn't you had to respect the guts these men had.

Excerpt w/video:

http://www.guns.com/2018/05/19/taking-a-dive-into-the-dark-with-the-tunnel-rats-in-vietnam-video/

Creeping around an underground labyrinth filled with booby traps and hidden dangers armed only with a .45. You just defined a Tunnel Rat.

As covered in the above 1967 short film by the Army, soldiers deployed to Southeast Asia poke around a newly discovered tunnel complex in an effort to reap any intelligence that may have been left behind by the (hopefully) former Viet Cong occupants.

Equipped with an M1911A1 and a Fulton MX991/U anglehead flashlight that put out an impressive 5 lumens of moonglow, so-called Tunnel Rats squeezed down the narrow underground passages that could contain high-value targets including bunkers, headquarters and storage facilities located near, or in some cases even under, American and Allied installations.

But there were efforts to provide a more purpose-built handgun for the job.

 

[contender]

Amen!!!

 

[powder smoke]

Being a bit claustrophobic, I can not imagine doing that job.
God Bless them. ps

 

[Jeepnik]

Met one once. He held the most interesting and modified M2 carbine I've ever seen. Basically take an M2, chop the barrel even with the forend, chop the butt stock at the pistol grip. No sights. It held a thirty round mag, and he had a bunch of mags.

I can't even imagine the shear guts it would take to do that job.

 

[GunnyGene]

Met one once. He held the most interesting and modified M2 carbine I've ever seen. Basically take an M2, chop the barrel even with the forend, chop the butt stock at the pistol grip. No sights. It held a thirty round mag, and he had a bunch of mags.

I can't even imagine the shear guts it would take to do that job.

Many people ask why not just flame them as done in WWII. Reason was they needed whatever intel they could find. Here's a little more about those tunnel complexes. They weren't just holes in the ground.

https://historykey.com/tunnel-rats-vietnams-underground-war/

 

[Snake45]

Being a bit claustrophobic, I can not imagine doing that job.
God Bless them. ps

You and me both.

 

[ronto]

I hate going into the crawl space under my house to change the water filter and concerned about Black Window and Brown Recluse Spiders. I can't imagine doing what these brave guys did.

 

[cpt-t]

I was a Infantry Soldier in 3 corp`s in 1968 & 1969. And we found many Tunnels in our AO. I do not ever remember a special person being sent to come out and search the tunnels we found. Didn't have the time really. But one of us had to go down and search out the tunnel we found. It was strictly voluntary. We all just took turns doing this, because it had to be done and we all knew it. Never one time was anybody in my Plt ever ordered to go down into a tunnel. But I can tell you this, the times I crawled around in one of those damn tunnels. It spooked me so bad that it took me the rest of the day just to settle down. And I would dream about doing this for several nights in a row afterwards. As far as what weapons, that were carried down into a tunnel. It was strictly the choice of the volunteer doing that dreaded job. Normally it was just a pistol and a flashlight of His choosings. But You darn sure earned Your pay for that job.
ken

 

[GunnyGene]

I was a Infantry Soldier in 3 corp`s in 1968 & 1969. And we found many Tunnels in our AO. I do not ever remember a special person being sent to come out and search the tunnels we found. Didn't have the time really. But one of us had to go down and search out the tunnel we found. It was strictly voluntary. We all just took turns doing this, because it had to be done and we all knew it. Never one time was anybody in my Plt ever ordered to go down into a tunnel. But I can tell you this, the times I crawled around in one of those damn tunnels. It spooked me so bad that it took me the rest of the day just to settle down. And I would dream about doing this for several nights in a row afterwards. As far as what weapons, that were carried down into a tunnel. It was strictly the choice of the volunteer doing that dreaded job. Normally it was just a pistol and a flashlight of His choosings. But You darn sure earned Your pay for that job.
ken

I apologize if this thread has stirred up any unwanted memories. That certainly wasn't my intent.

 

[A.J.]

I was a Infantry Soldier in 3 corp`s in 1968 & 1969. And we found many Tunnels in our AO. I do not ever remember a special person being sent to come out and search the tunnels we found. Didn't have the time really. But one of us had to go down and search out the tunnel we found. It was strictly voluntary. We all just took turns doing this, because it had to be done and we all knew it. Never one time was anybody in my Plt ever ordered to go down into a tunnel. But I can tell you this, the times I crawled around in one of those damn tunnels. It spooked me so bad that it took me the rest of the day just to settle down. And I would dream about doing this for several nights in a row afterwards. As far as what weapons, that were carried down into a tunnel. It was strictly the choice of the volunteer doing that dreaded job. Normally it was just a pistol and a flashlight of His choosings. But You darn sure earned Your pay for that job.
ken

My year in Iraq was nothing compared to what most of you Vietnam vets endured. You have my respect.

 

[hdonlybob]

There is no way I can express my respect and admiration to these true American Hero's.....God Bless them indeed..
(I am also extremely claustrophobic)
HD

 

[eveled]

In the video they show them going from bright day light into the dark tunnels. I think I'd rather wear a hood or some dark sun glasses to acclimate my eyes to the dark, before I crawled into a hole.

I also have an immense amount of respect for all who serve, but especially tunnel rats. We owe a debt we can never repay.

 

[GunnyGene]

I was a Infantry Soldier in 3 corp`s in 1968 & 1969. And we found many Tunnels in our AO. I do not ever remember a special person being sent to come out and search the tunnels we found. Didn't have the time really. But one of us had to go down and search out the tunnel we found. It was strictly voluntary. We all just took turns doing this, because it had to be done and we all knew it. Never one time was anybody in my Plt ever ordered to go down into a tunnel. But I can tell you this, the times I crawled around in one of those damn tunnels. It spooked me so bad that it took me the rest of the day just to settle down. And I would dream about doing this for several nights in a row afterwards. As far as what weapons, that were carried down into a tunnel. It was strictly the choice of the volunteer doing that dreaded job. Normally it was just a pistol and a flashlight of His choosings. But You darn sure earned Your pay for that job.
ken

My year in Iraq was nothing compared to what most of you Vietnam vets endured. You have my respect.

Ya know, I felt the same way about my kin who fought in WWI, WWII, and Korea. Don't put down your time in Iraq. When the next war rolls around those that fight it will feel the same about the Iraq & Afganistan vets.

Every war is different, and every war is the same. We who fought and will fight are all kin going back to the beginning.

“Lo, there do I see my father.
Lo, there do I see my mother,
and my sisters, and my brothers.
Lo, there do I see the line of my people,
Back to the beginning!

Lo, they do call to me.
They bid me take my place among them,
In the halls of Valhalla!
Where the brave may live forever!”

 

[WendyZXZ]

Thanks for sharing, very interesting bit of history there!

 

[blume357]

Of course there is the scene in Forest Gump when he is writing home about his 'adventures' and Lt. Dan hands him his 1911 and he dives in that hole.....

 

[Heliman]

My late cousin did some tunnel ratting in ‘67. He didn’t talk much about it, let alone say what type of firearm he used. He died at the age of 54 from the effects of agent orange. I didn’t know until the funeral that he was also a Bronze Star recipient. Whether tunnel ratting was the reason I don’t know. He didn’t talk much at all about the war.....

 

[blackhawknj]

Years ago in Guns & Ammo -? I read about the QSPR-Quiet Special Purpose Revolver-developed, but never issued-for tunnel rats. It was an S&W N-frame, the ammunition was buckshot loaded over a steel plate over a powder charge in a case. The idea was the round would be fired normally, but the plate would contain the blast and flash while flinging the buckshot at the target.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

I lost an acquaintance a couple of years ago, who once told me a little about her family's military history. Dad was a P-47 pilot in Europe in WWII, flew 100 missions and came home barely scratched up. Brother was a tunnel rat in VN. He came home, barely scratched up, physically. Dad's gone, and I'm not sure about the brother, but she said he carried a lot more of the war home than Dad did.

Somebody had to do that job. I'm thankful we had guys who did, and for those still with us, pray they can live as normal lives as possible.

Rick C

 

[R-71]

I hate going into the crawl space under my house to change the water filter and concerned about Black Window and Brown Recluse Spiders. I can't imagine doing what these brave guys did.

I watched a show and they interviewed a tunnel rat and he claimed he hated going down the tunnels mostly because of the spiders.

 

[kramden]

One of my HS classmates was killed doing just that. His nickname was Tiny and thus he was trained to do that job. They generally wanted smaller guys in that job.

 

[cpt-t]

I never knew of a Tunnel Rat School. And I don`t remember the 1st Inf Div, 25th Inf Div, or the 1st Cav Div, ever having a training program for Tunnel Rats. For Me and my Guys it was just really ((( OJT ))). I have been asked many times what combat was really like. And My answer most of the time is to just watch the movie Forrest Gump. The very short part where 1LT Dan and Bubba are so severely wounded. Combat is so horrible that there are no adjectives to, describe it or just put it into words very well. You lose your fine motor skills, and like changing the push on a Prick 25 or Prick 10 is extremely hard to do if not impossible. You can develop Tunnel Vision, and your voice on the radio is very fast and is very hard for the Red Legs ((( ARTY ))), Gun Ships, Medevac Birds to understand you, and you sound like that of a scared little girl. I always lost any feeling of pain and I became very angry like in a Rage to get even. Afterwards when it was all over and the WIA`s & KIA`s were all medevaced out, total exhaustion would generally hit me. And I would find myself crying. And all I wanted to do was just lay down and sleep. I am sorry if I have offended anyone, but sometimes I feel the need to just tell someone about it and the words just come out.
ken

 

[Heliman]

I never knew of a Tunnel Rat School. And I don`t remember the 1st Inf Div, 25th Inf Div, or the 1st Cav Div, ever having a training program for Tunnel Rats. For Me and my Guys it was just really ((( OJT ))). I have been asked many times what combat was really like. And My answer most of the time is to just watch the movie Forrest Gump. The very short part where 1LT Dan and Bubba are so severely wounded. Combat is so horrible that there are no adjectives to, describe it or just put it into words very well. You lose your fine motor skills, and like changing the push on a Prick 25 or Prick 10 is extremely hard to do if not impossible. You can develop Tunnel Vision, and your voice on the radio is very fast and is very hard for the Red Legs ((( ARTY ))), Gun Ships, Medevac Birds to understand you, and you sound like that of a scared little girl. I always lost any feeling of pain and I became very angry like in a Rage to get even. Afterwards when it was all over and the WIA`s & KIA`s were all medevaced out, total exhaustion would generally hit me. And I would find myself crying. And all I wanted to do was just lay down and sleep. I am sorry if I have offended anyone, but sometimes I feel the need to just tell someone about it and the words just come out.
ken

Thank you for telling it like it is and your sacrifice. Nothing more to say. Thank you.

Dave

 

[wwb]

cpt-t has it right. I was in the Big Red One in '69-'70.... no "tunnel rat school" as far as I know. That job always fell to the smallest guy in the squad.

We always tossed in a couple concussion grenades before anybody went in.