Divisive Guns

[MaxMan]

Somes guns just about everyone agrees to, some the battle lines are drawn very strong opinions on both side. I was thinking of

Baretta Neos
Anything Kel Tech

You might have a specific Kel Tec that is more divisive than other thought.

 

[hittman]

My P3AT performed better than the LCP I traded it for.
I probably shoulda kept the PF9 I sold too.

 

[Kevin]

My dad had a Beretta Neos, I was always indecisive about that gun. I shot it a lot. It was so so accurate. Take down for cleaning was crude. Overall I probably hated it.

God, do they still make them? It’s a far cry from a Wilson 92.

 

[WanderLust]

My dad’s Remington Light 20 gauge was very good at dividing rabbits in two groups:
the quick or the dead! (Sorry, couldn’t help it….)
My list would be basically handguns, not long guns. I love Sig but the Mosquito didn’t fly!

 

[MaxMan]

Y

My dad had a Beretta Neos, I was always indecisive about that gun. I shot it a lot. It was so so accurate. Take down for cleaning was crude. Overall I probably hated it.

God, do they still make them? It’s a far cry from a Wilson 92.

you'll be happy to know they quite making them a number of years ago..

 

[Kevin]

Y

you'll be happy to know they quite making them a number of years ago..

Thank God.

And I’ve never shot a Kel Tec. They are pretty ugly, and there is no reason to shot an ugly gun.

 

[gunzo]

OMG, the 6.5 Creedmoor. A great little cartridge design that met it's initial goals as intended. Then some compared it to the second coming, for all rifle uses.
This fandom created ridicule & dislike over the hype. Still a good round, but the hype caused a dark cloud over the entire subject.

 

[eveled]

Judge and Governor.

Some think they are versatile others see them as a gimick

 

[Mike J]

I had a KelTec P11. It was basically the pistol that Scyy & Ruger both cloned (the original LC9). It was a bit crude, had a weak blued finish, & a horrible gritty double action only trigger. I reshaped the trigger, sanded the magwell so magazines would drop free & replaced the mag catch with a metal one that was sold by a member at KTOG. However, it was the smallest double stack 9mm available at the time. It was roughly the size of the micro 9's that have been so popular the past few years. It was also decently accurate once you got used to the trigger, and it was reliable. Also, the first pistol I owned that had a removable fire control group. So, it was crude, innovative, inexpensive & reliable. Interesting combination.

 

[paboxcall]

Revolvers....top break H&R Sportsman 999. Some detest the design. Mine has fired 1000's of 22lr without a single fail. And been super accurate little revolver since I got it in the 80s.

 

[Jeepnik]

Can't count the number of times someone has told me this is junk. And yet it goes bang every time and I hit what I point it at.

And as for these they are a southpaws perfect .22 lr revolver.

 

[mirglip]

Revolvers....top break H&R Sportsman 999. Some detest the design. Mine has fired 1000's of 22lr without a single fail. And been super accurate little revolver since I got it in the 80s.

1,000's of rounds of .22 LR is not the test of a .22 revolver. Single Sixes will run hundreds of 1,000's of rounds and still be tight. A friend of mine has a pristine H&R 999 top break and it's pretty neat, I've shot it. The trigger is a bit heavy. It would be worth doing a trigger job on if it was known how many rounds it would take for the cylinder to become too loose for accuracy.

 

[blume357]

Can't count the number of times someone has told me this is junk. And yet it goes bang every time and I hit what I point it at.

Reminds me of a scene in one of my favorite movies with two of my favorite actors (both gone now). Get Shorty with Gene Hackman and Dennis Farina. But be warned there is foul language in it.

 

[Johnnu2]

".....there is no reason to shoot an ugly gun." KEVIN

J.

 

[peachhead]

I don't have one but Tokarev shotguns and AR shotguns. I cannot stand them.
And Hi Points.

 

[jav]

Thank God.

And I’ve never shot a Kel Tec. They are pretty ugly, and there is no reason to shot an ugly gun.

I hear they are pretty reliable

 

[RichCapeCod]

Full disclosure: When I was a child, as a sgt. and later a lt. in the NYPD, I ran the dept’s Firearms and Tactics Unit Police Firearms Instructor School, as well as the Heavy Weapons Unit (there were five separate units in heavy weapons) as well as Research and Testing. So I have opinions…

You want to get into a kerfuffle and a debate on handguns then speak to an aficionado of the Colt 1911 pattern pistol. Oh boy. Especially when I suggest carrying such a sidearm is little more than a fashion statement. My reasoning may be seen below:

This is an antique design, developed in the 19th century until seeing its first iterations starting 1900. In its day it was a superb design. But, we have moved on…

Furthermore, this handgun was never designed to be carried “cocked and locked.” Its initial designs had NO external safeties (yeah, that rear sight "safety"~fugetaboutit...), ala the Tokarev TT-33.

The NYPD, after actual research, determined that the two primary causes of accidental, inadvertent or negligent firearms discharge were:

The cocked handgun and the improperly unloaded firearm.

The 1911 pistol, when carried cocked and locked is, by definition, cocked (duh). Slipping the safety off and now you have its handler running around, sometimes during times of extreme stress, with a cocked pistol in their mitts. The amount of intense training needed in order to ensure the safe handling of a cocked handgun is far too intense and time consuming for both the average law officer as well as citizen users.

Improperly unloaded pistols and revolvers (yeah, we’ve seen unintentional discharges with improperly unloaded revolvers, including fatalities!) was a major issue. How many times have you witnessed firearms users clearing their magazine fed firearms by working the action first THEN activating the action and seeing a round pop out. They now think they are holding an unloaded firearm. Deaths have resulted from this error.

The 1911 has another flaw. The round coming off the top of the magazine rides around 1/16” unsupported as it hits the feed ramp. Modern pistols have an almost direct line feed from the round’s position at the top of the magazine and into the pistol’s chamber.

I carry either a S&W 342 or 642. You guys can tote around whatever floats your boats!!

Rich

My book, Practical Handgun Training:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0988882817

 

[hittman]

I agree about the 1911.

I know of a large sheriffs dept in the Midwest. Their dress uniforms are a stunning black with red accents along with campaign hats. They carry high polished Colt 1911s but only for dress …… not on duty. I saw a few of those guys attending a state policy academy graduation so I asked one of their LTs and he told me that.

 

[Yaworski]

The 1911 has another flaw.

Heresy! The creations of the Prophet John Moses Browning (may peace be upon him) have no flaws. Unintended features, perhaps, but no flaws.

The amount of intense training needed in order to ensure the safe handling of a cocked handgun is far too intense and time consuming for both the average law officer as well as citizen users.

It has always struck me that the amount of training that police officers receive is minimal at best.

 

[mirglip]

I hear they are pretty reliable

Some are some aren't, but most are very innovative. If that Kellgren guy doesn't die first he will manufacture some really awesome ugly firearms. He is a genius.
The P-17 is amazing for a less than $200 plastic squirt gun looking pistol. Accurate, reliable, high capacity and super lightweight. It surprises me how well I can shoot it. It comes from the factory with a 3 pound trigger and 3 magazines.
If it fits your hand you will probably love it. I have 3 of them.

 

[Yaworski]

Back in the day, I knew a guy who was a firearms trainer for the DC Metropolitan police. He told me that when the Glocks were adopted they had many accidents in the locker rooms. Guys would put their new Glock back in its tupperware box which had a post to pull the trigger. Bang!

 

[Yaworski]

Divisive? I really don't care what you carry. I may think that your choice is silly or impractical but divisive? Nah.

 

[peachhead]

Full disclosure: When I was a child, as a sgt. and later a lt. in the NYPD, I ran the dept’s Firearms and Tactics Unit Police Firearms Instructor School, as well as the Heavy Weapons Unit (there were five separate units in heavy weapons) as well as Research and Testing. So I have opinions…

You want to get into a kerfuffle and a debate on handguns then speak to an aficionado of the Colt 1911 pattern pistol. Oh boy. Especially when I suggest carrying such a sidearm is little more than a fashion statement. My reasoning may be seen below:

This is an antique design, developed in the 19th century until seeing its first iterations starting 1900. In its day it was a superb design. But, we have moved on…

Furthermore, this handgun was never designed to be carried “cocked and locked.” Its initial designs had NO external safeties (yeah, that rear sight "safety"~fugetaboutit...), ala the Tokarev TT-33.

The NYPD, after actual research, determined that the two primary causes of accidental, inadvertent or negligent firearms discharge were:

The cocked handgun and the improperly unloaded firearm.

The 1911 pistol, when carried cocked and locked is, by definition, cocked (duh). Slipping the safety off and now you have its handler running around, sometimes during times of extreme stress, with a cocked pistol in their mitts. The amount of intense training needed in order to ensure the safe handling of a cocked handgun is far too intense and time consuming for both the average law officer as well as citizen users.

Improperly unloaded pistols and revolvers (yeah, we’ve seen unintentional discharges with improperly unloaded revolvers, including fatalities!) was a major issue. How many times have you witnessed firearms users clearing their magazine fed firearms by working the action first THEN activating the action and seeing a round pop out. They now think they are holding an unloaded firearm. Deaths have resulted from this error.

The 1911 has another flaw. The round coming off the top of the magazine rides around 1/16” unsupported as it hits the feed ramp. Modern pistols have an almost direct line feed from the round’s position at the top of the magazine and into the pistol’s chamber.

I carry either a S&W 342 or 642. You guys can tote around whatever floats your boats!!

Rich

My book, Practical Handgun Training:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0988882817

Just because some people are stupid doesn't mean the gun has a flaw.

 

[BULL'S-EYE]

I've NEVER purchased a firearm with even the slightest care or concern about what anyone else thinks about it.

 

[mirglip]

Just because some people are stupid doesn't mean the gun has a flaw.

Most of us are stupid under duress. Best to have a gun that is easy to deploy safely under duress. JMO. Not meant to be divisive..LOL.

 

[Yaworski]

Most of us are stupid under duress.

That's when training takes over.

 

[T.A. WORKMAN]

I'll say it again....your money, your choice, no one else's.
Do your research, buy your choice of firearm...and enjoy it!
Terry

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

Taurus. 'Nuff said....

 

[mirglip]

That's when training takes over.

How do you train under duress? Do you hire someone to beat you up or try to cut you with a knife while you deploy your firearm? What if you're trained with a revolver and you're carrying your Glock? What if you're trained with a 1911 and all you have on you is a NAA Mini Derringer?

 

[Yaworski]

How do you train under duress?

Two things: train with what you're going to carry. Repetitions build "muscle memory," Generally about a thousand reps.

Think about something simple like driving. When you want to go left, you just think "left" and your body takes care of it. If you drive a stick, when was the last time that actually thought about the clutch.

Of course, avoid the Jews at all costs.