Electrical question?

[GasGuzzler]

I can think of no instance where you can use 14ga wire on a 20a breaker.

I must have missed where someone said that was okay.

 

[Richard76]

5 posts above

 

[larry8]

Fix is simple. Let the electrician run a new 12 ga. wire to the area you want and install a 20 amp receptacle near the existing receptacle. You then have 2 circuits. Run one for the toaster and the other one for the coffee machine.

 

[Johnnu2]

As far as changing breakers is concerned.... it is NOT simple for probably 90% of the population....an electrician is required and he will cost more than a new toaster oven (certainly around here). I know the basics of changing a breaker, but would not be comfortable changing one in my house..... I'd probably do it successfully in someone else's house, but not really sure...I forget a lot of steps :)
My 1968 built house is 14 ga. (15 amp.....period)
J.

 

[jules]

How about trying to plug them in a different outlet in another room and see if it trips that breaker. I had the same problem with a toaster, microwave and air fryer. It turned out to be a bad breaker.

 

[redfernclan]

Thread started with lots of good info and now your starting to get conflicting recommendation. I was an industrial electrician for 26 years and it sounds like you neighbor is a straight shooter.

 

[Jeepnik]

Locally you can find the codes online. And one thing for sure is you want to follow the codes and get permits so you have a final inspection. Why? Well if you have a fire and the insurance finds out you didn't, they won't pay.

Oh you could probably get a lawyer and hire experts to testify your wiring had nothing to do with it. But no guarantees.

 

[Kevin]

Thread started with lots of good info and now your starting to get conflicting recommendation. I was an industrial electrician for 26 years and it sounds like you neighbor is a straight shooter.

Yes, but I am reading and considering all the opinions. I’m not concerned the house will burn down, I don’t think it’s that dire of a situation.

The toaster oven is 1800 watts. It’s pretty fancy, and does proofing for bread which is why my wife bought it. And the espresso maker is fairly good sized also. One of those with a built in grinder. It’s paid for itself by skipping Starbucks.

As for the lightbulbs, it was ya’ll here that told me not to buy a ladder and have someone else change the lightbulbs. But that is a matter for another time.

My wife is traveling this week, but I’m going to talk about this with her when she gets back. We have a habit of putting stuff like this off and never getting art to it.

 

[Jeepnik]

Here's a little trick I used when installing control equipment. Use the next size larger than code or manufacturer's recommendations if possible. It does cost a few pennies more, but inspectors will usually see it and understand you wanted it done right and take pride in your work.

Oh, and like all requirements they are "minimums".

Oh and we haven't even touched stranded versus solid core wire.

 

[Johnnu2]

KISS........... a good mantra even when buying appliances...
I've never let my good fortune influence my purchases in life.... KEEP IT SIMPLE....life becomes easier in all ways....
IMtrulyHO

J.

 

[Jeepnik]

Oh, if you're tripping breakers you should be concerned about the house burning down. That's what breakers are there prevent.

 

[jav]

It sounds like this guy know what he’s talking about not trying to over sale the situation good luck let us know

 

[Randyzzz]

1800w toaster oven “should” run on a 15a breaker. But a 20 with 12ga wire would be better. Weak breaker? Maybe, never hurts to change it out, they’re not expensive.

I would add a second 20a circuit for the toaster oven. Also, electricians aren’t cheap- but knowing it’s done right is priceless.

 

[Yaworski]

and remember code is your friend, not the enemy, and applied correctly by you or anyone you hire will give you a lifetime of trouble free service

I view those "tamper resistant" outlets now required by code to be a problem just waiting to happen.

 

[pisgah]

Go ahead -- get the stronger fuse, then pray no one who has read your post tips off your insurance company after your house burns down...

 

[Yaworski]

Oh, if you're tripping breakers you should be concerned about the house burning down. That's what breakers are there prevent.

I had a breaker that would trip if you looked at it wrong. Replaced the breaker and never had another problem.

 

[Richard76]

Yes, but I am reading and considering all the opinions. I'm not concerned the house will burn down, I don't think it's that dire of a situation.

The toaster oven is 1800 watts. It's pretty fancy, and does proofing for bread which is why my wife bought it. And the espresso maker is fairly good sized also. One of those with a built in grinder. It's paid for itself by skipping Starbucks.

As for the lightbulbs, it was ya'll here that told me not to buy a ladder and have someone else change the lightbulbs. But that is a matter for another time.

My wife is traveling this week, but I'm going to talk about this with her when she gets back. We have a habit of putting stuff like this off and never getting art to it.

as an FYI 1800w =15a power(watts)=E(voltage)x I (amps) 1800=120x15

 

[protoolman]

See if your wiring is easy to trace from the panel to the outlet. If it's easy to get to, it shouldn't cost too much just to run the new 12 gauge Romex and a 20 amp breaker. Copper prices are up but if you're lucky the run is short.

 

[krw]

Here we go. On post #9 I suggested changing Breaker
1. I will bet $10 in Dallas it is wired to code and has #12 wire in Kitchen
2. I will also bet it has a cheap breaker bx w cheap breakers
3. And for all you that suggested to 'pull' a new wire, most of yall aint done that. Romex staples, fire blocking, receptacles that are daisychaind horizontal through studs. Get you a dose of that candy!!

 

[The A Team]

If the toaster alone is tripping the breaker then I would suspect a bad breaker... easier and cheaper to replace than the toaster oven.

Oh and something interesting I learned recently from an electrician.... as we have discussed: in residential wiring.... 14gage wire uses a 15 amp breaker and 12 gage wire uses a 20 amp. for those not in the know 12 gage wire is thicker than 14 and can carry more current.... but here is the crux... in comercial applications you can use the thinner 14 gage on a 20 amp circuit. I'm wondering if this is because in commercial the wiring is in conduit ?

That's actually not correct. There is a chart in the code book that's shows the rating of each conductor size and insulation type. #14 copper is rated for 20 amps but that includes a safety factor and the largest breaker size breaker the code allows is 15 amp. #12 copper is rated for 30 amps but again with the safety factor the largest breaker you are allowed to use is 20 amp.

By the way 1800 amps is 75% of a 20 amp circuit and the max continuous load on a breaker should be less than 80% of the breaker rating. The breaker is tripping because it’s being used near the max rating.

 

[Jeepnik]

I view those "tamper resistant" outlets now required by code to be a problem just waiting to happen.

As a rather inquisitive child I discovered that sticking one of dad's screwdrivers into an electrical outlet was rather exciting. Fortunately I wasn't holding the metal shaft and only got a good momentary light show. Dad on the other hand was not pleased. Not only did it blow the fuse, but it pretty much ruined the tip of the screwdriver. That screwdriver remained on the all of the garage until mom sold the house. However, the memory of the spanking remains to this day.

Tamper resistant outlets are a good thing if it stops even one kid from electrocution. Adults just have to learn to be smarter than the outlet.

 

[Yaworski]

Tamper resistant outlets are a good thing if it stops even one kid from electrocution. Adults just have to learn to be smarter than the outlet.

Similarly, smart guns are a good thing if they save just one life.

 

[Jeepnik]

Similarly, smart guns are a good thing if they save just one life.

Stored properly kids won't have access to firearms. Kind of diffusion keep outlets out of their reach.

Ever treated an electrocution victim. Not pretty. And what the parents of a child so injured will never be free of guilt.

 

[Yaworski]

Stored properly kids won't have access to firearms. Kind of diffusion keep outlets out of their reach.

There are roughly 23,500,000 children under five. Approximately 2,400 get zapped each year with about 12 fatalities. 2,400 is 1/10 of 1 percent, that's a statistical non-starter.

Roughly the same number of kids drown in toilets and five gallon buckets. Should we mandate lid locks on toilets? Ban five gallon buckets?

Safety Nazis mean well but they are still Nazis.

 

[Colonialgirl]

Gee, I wired the basement of a house I owned up North; ran lights, wired in floor level heaters, installed a bathroom, etc etc. NEVER got nor applied for a permit, never had an inspection either. Guess I should confess, my Dad (had been a Navy electrician on an aircraft carrier and changed to aviation Electronics) taught me all about wiring color codes, etc etc. It just takes some training an a lot of intelligence.

 

[althor]

Having been a licensed commercial/industrial electrician for 35 years I can think of no instance where you can use 14ga wire on a 20a breaker. The NEC is mostly the same rules residential or commercial when it comes to overload protection. most differences are on motor circuits.

See 2020 NEC 240.4(D) referencing 240.4(E) and 240.4(G)

 

[Kevin]

Go ahead -- get the stronger fuse, then pray no one who has read your post tips off your insurance company after your house burns down...

In my first post I said I’m not going to do anything but hire a licensed electrician.

Thank you again for everyone who commented here. It is very informative and helpful.

 

[Richard76]

not sure where up north you were, but single family homes are not required to be inspected or wired by a licensed electrician. however most insurance companies require it.

 

[althor]

Dan inMI and Gunzo have it right. If you want to put that much load on a single circuit you will need to run 12 gauge wire with a 20 amp breaker. You might ask the Electrician if there is any benefit to going with 10 gauge just to be safe? What do you guys think?

Here's what I think. 10 AWG if the circuit length is long enough that voltage drop is a concern, otherwise no.

 

[clayguy]

Ok, first, I'm not going to do this myself, I will hire an electrician. And I'm not in a hurry, I still haven't bought a ladder or changed the lightbulbs in my 14' ceiling.

My question:
We have a coffee maker and toaster oven on the same circuit in the kitchen. It's a pretty nice toaster over, but if you turn the heat up above 340°, it will trip the circuit breaker. Or if it's at 330° and you use the espresso machine, it will trip the circuit breaker.

I was just walking my dog, and saw a guy with a nice F350 diesel. Long bed, so huge truck. But he said he's a local electrician in the neighborhood and gave me his card.

I explained the situation to him and he said he would have to run a new wire. He can't just go from the 15amp breaker to a 20amp breaker.

Here's my question….
Is he correct or trying to upsell me? He seemed like a decent guy and I'm thinking of calling him to fix this.

It's been a year and I want my frozen pizza to cook faster!

No seriously, if he comes to fix this then I can have him change the lightbulbs at the same time.

I just don't want to be taken advantage of. Which has happened almost every time I hire a contractor….almost.

He is not trying to "upsell" you. Code requires 12ga wire for a 20 amp circuit, 14 ga for 15 amp. If your two appliances are operating off the same receptacle and it's a 14ga 15 amp circuit you'll have to run new 12ga wiring on a 20 amp circuit if you want to solve your problem. An even better solution is to run a dedicated line for the toaster oven and one for coffee maker.