Custom GP 100

[Ernie Bishop]

Craig,
I consider Bob a friend (I do not know the other gentlemen you listed), and I usually get to spend a day or two with him, as a bunch of specialty pistol nuts (12+) are shooting at paper for groups at 500, 75, and 1000 yards in June, south of Sundance WY.
Neither of my FA's could shoot the groups I did in SC with two prototype Franken-Ruger's that I had never handled until the day I shot them. And I was shooting Extremunition ammo...I didn't even do load development
The Burris scope (Silver Satin one) was a 1-4 or 1-5 LER scope.
Will I be using higher magnification scopes on mine? YES
Why? Because they have better glass, and more internal adjustment for distance
Bog-Gear is way more steadier than off-hand, but it is hardly used for benchrest comps-Now that would be funny to watch.
This is front rest used for benchrest shooting...


This is Bog Gear...
Scope is a Burris 2-7 LER on this FR


FWIW-I would rather shoot prone with a bi-pod and a small pillow bag any day over seated with Bog-Gear.....Much steadier. A Harris bi-pod is a far cry from a front rest that people use in BR.

 

[CraigC]

well for one....I have never tried to put myself on anyone else's level....I dont want to be compared to anyone else.

When you make comments like those I quoted above, you ARE saying that your work is better than theirs. Whether that is your intent or not. You have stated unequivocally that your setup out shoots all the rest. That lineboring is unnecessary. Now, you could've continued posting your guns and your results without making such claims and that would've been fine. But you did make those claims. I find those to be a rather bold statements, considering that you are apparently doing NONE of the traditionally accepted modifications typically done when accurizing a revolver, aside from installing a new barrel. No fitting oversized bolts. No blocking the action. No building new linebored cylinders from scratch. Which I don't have a problem with in the least but if you're going to make such statements, you better be prepared to back it up.

THere is more than one path to the same goal....

Not really. It's pretty straightforward, with little variation.

Its something different....nope its not traditional....nope its not pretty...Its all about function.

Once again, I made no judgements based on looks.

and in closing....tiny groups are proof all on their own.

I really don't care about ringing gongs. If it's not five or six consecutive shots on paper, you're not showing me anything quantifiable. I know of another guy that brags about his tiny groups but you never seen them on paper, only on paint cans.

Dude! Not trying to start anything but If you let things likes this get your panties in an uproar you have plenty of issues.

I'm not the one with their panties in a bunch. I asked some basic, valid questions and your gunsmith got awfully defensive.

Bog-Gear is way more steadier than off-hand, but it is hardly used for benchrest comps-Now that would be funny to watch.

Thanks for the condescending lesson but I think I know the difference. Sorry but I have to chuckle when I see something like the Bog setup referred to as a "field rest". Perhaps, if all you're doing is shooting prairie dogs 20ft from the truck. :roll:

 

[Ernie Bishop]

Craig,
What I look for is results.
I am not a machinist or a gunsmith.
Never have been, and never will be, but I know what works.
If my shooting style is bothersome to you, in that you don't think it will work-I have no problem with that.
Still doesn't change the facts.
If you consider Bog-Gear a BR set-up, fine with me.
We are still shooting the groups that we are shooting.
A guy named Frank, who I had never met before, shot the FR (In South Carolina) and wouldn't you know it, shot the smallest 6-shot group of his life at 100 yards.
I am in with Chris on this.
If you want to see one in action or better yet actually come and shoot one yourself, consider yourself invited.
I'm interested in results.
I don't have to shoot off-hand to reveal the accuracy of a weapon or hunt/shoot with no support to feel like I am a handgunner.
I want to get the best, most solid rest I can, so I can put the bullet exactly where I want it.
It seems like since Chris' revolvers are shooting groups that you believe can't be done with other revolvers by other smith's, therefore Chris must be a liar and a fake. Maybe all these groups are made up or are at 25 yards....
This is the reason for the invitation.
Pretend you are from Missouri (SHOW ME STATE), and come watch us and video us shooting.
But then by all means, get behind one or two yourself and see what you can do.
What is posted here you will not cause you to believe or be satisfied with what has been posted (At least that is my assumption currently).
I will pay for your ammo that you shoot when you come out and buy you supper or grill steaks for you.
Bring your video camera or smart phone.
Most of the shooting I do, I do amongst a group of people or in a competition.
I have hunted with revolvers (mule deer, antelope, and whitetail), and haven't much cared for them because of their accuracy when using them in the field.
This is why I am excited about the FR system.
Ironically, after shooting Chris' two FR's, it was the first time ever that I actually wanted a Ruger revolver to hunt and shoot with.
I just never put the name Ruger with accuracy (Sorry guys, but that is how I really felt).
About the condescending part...Was there sarcasm in there? Yes.
I guess it is clear that you do not appreciate when someone responds that way.
I would encourage you to consider that before you plow into someone else.
I wanted to make it obvious how you were comparing two shooting aids.

 

[Ernie Bishop]

The FR is easier to shoot accurately since you can have a solid two points to rest the revolver without changing point of impact - This is the simple answer.
Second, what he does to build these is working.
They shoot good, regardless of what you or anyone else is convinced is required-Proof is in the results.

 

[jules]

CraigC....I have one question for you. Are you a gunsmith or a machinist?

 

[bcgunworks]

I'm just upset you didn't comment on me saying your leather work looked nice.

 

[Ernie Bishop]

:lol:

I'm just upset you didn't comment on me saying your leather work looked nice.

:lol:

 

[Rumrunner]

Hey Chris,
Thanks for the explanation on using a rifle scope. I think my Encore on a bag will be more user friendly then what my MK II was. I have a new scope at home that is replacing a scope on one of my rifles so might put the scope I replace on my Encore 223.
I took the Encore on a prairie dog shoot and usually had no problems out to 200+ yards. Still I would like to see just how accurate it could be.

 

[bcgunworks]

Ernie would be the expert on rifle scopes and handguns...

But I'm sure he would recommend a muzzle brake to reduce recoil

With a small rear bag and a standard front rest you should do fine.

 

[Ernie Bishop]

Ditto on what Chris said.
FWIW I have a Leupold 4.5-14 on my Franken-Ruger currently. It is braked
Here is an older article, but the principles still apply.
I only have one maybe two LER scopes on my pistols. A 223 Rem Freedom Arms, and a Ruger 22/45
http://www.handgunhunt.com/promo/membership/features/readNewArticle.php?oid=12&title=Rifle%20Scopes%20On%20Specialty%20Handguns
If you want, I can post links to videos showing how I shoot SP's with high magnification riflescopes.
Or I could PM them, since this about revolvers-Still same principle

 

[Rumrunner]

Thanks. I browse that site but hadn't read that article. I will tonight.

 

[Ernie Bishop]

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions

 

[CraigC]

If my shooting style is bothersome to you, in that you don't think it will work-I have no problem with that.

I don't remember calling you out on anything at any time. All I do recall is taking up for you against the naysayers on THR.

If you consider Bog-Gear a BR set-up, fine with me.

No, I said it's hardly what I would call a "field rest" but more of a portable shooting bench. I never said or implied it was a setup appropriate for benchrest competition.

I don't have to shoot off-hand to reveal the accuracy of a weapon or hunt/shoot with no support to feel like I am a handgunner.

I don't see what the argument is here. Perhaps you read a little too much into what I posted???

If you want to see one in action or better yet actually come and shoot one yourself, consider yourself invited.

Uh, no. Again, I'm not questioning the veracity of what has been posted, so you can dispense with all that crap.

It seems like since Chris' revolvers are shooting groups that you believe can't be done with other revolvers by other smith's, therefore Chris must be a liar and a fake.

I never said any of that and resent the implication. ONCE AGAIN, I NEVER CALLED ANYONE A LIAR OR IN ANY WAY REFUTED THE RESULTS POSTED!!!

The issue I have with the whole thing is this. Unknown gunsmith slapping a funny looking aluminum shroud and a new barrel on an otherwise stock GP-100 and claiming to build the most accurate revolver extant. That is what I have a problem with. Do you guys really not have a clue what a bold statement is being made there??? Are you so fixated on specialty pistols that you don't have any idea what has been going on in the revolver world for the last few decades?

Pretend you are from Missouri (SHOW ME STATE)...

That is exactly what I was trying to do with this discussion. I do not have to drive to Virginia or Wyoming to have my questions answered. The fact that the responses to my questions have been defensive, evasive and vague is not a good sign. :roll:

I just never put the name Ruger with accuracy (Sorry guys, but that is how I really felt).

Perhaps your problem is one of unrealistic expectations.

About the condescending part...Was there sarcasm in there? Yes.
I guess it is clear that you do not appreciate when someone responds that way.
I would encourage you to consider that before you plow into someone else.
I wanted to make it obvious how you were comparing two shooting aids.

I would encourage you to consider that this is the internet and all one can do is respond to the words on the screen. I'm not sitting in a room with you to see your expressions or hear your tone and vice versa.

 

[bcgunworks]

Dang.....you still didn't respond to me saying you did nice leather work....

 

[Ernie Bishop]

First, I don't post things that didn't happen. Plus, it was repeated by more than one shooter
Second, I seriously don't pay attention to a lot of what is going on with other revolver builders.
I recognize there will always be folks who either don't understand or believe what is being done-I can't change that.
Some of what is out there is completely false. I get that.
I'm the one that brought the Bog-Gear and uses the small field bag for shooting handguns.
Chris had never tried this style before until this past September. So I replied for a couple of reasons: I shot it and it shot better than any revolver I have ever shot, I witnessed others doing it, and I used a style of shooting for stability with my SP's. Oddly enough it worked. Personally I was shocked they shot that good, and that I could shoot them that good.

 

[bcgunworks]

What craigc posted.

I never said any of that and resent the implication. ONCE AGAIN, I NEVER CALLED ANYONE A LIAR OR IN ANY WAY REFUTED THE RESULTS POSTED!!!

So there really isn't any need to go any farther.

Since the results are the proof....well that's settled....

I go over each gun with each customer....that's how that done....so that's settled.

Your negative tone is persistent through any post you don't like....we tend to know that as a keyboard warrior. Sorry if you take offense to that.

If you don't like me or my work that's fine. But I would like to thank you for dragging this out. The drama brings in more lurkers to read the post and thus gets me more orders....you helped me sell work....for that I thank you.

And in closing once again your leather work looks nice...

 

[MaxP]

I just never put the name Ruger with accuracy (Sorry guys, but that is how I really felt).

I have no dog in this fight......

But, Ernie, this is a box-stock Super Redhawk in .454, shooting factory ammo. 5-shots, 100 yards, with a red dot. Some day I will slap a scope on it to see what it will really do, but Rugers are often pretty darn accurate out of the box. I would say this qualifies as a "Minute of Dead Critter" revolver.......

 

[Ernie Bishop]

Nice!

 

[CraigC]

So there really isn't any need to go any farther.

Except for all those unanswered questions and unaddressed claims.

Since the results are the proof....well that's settled....

What, a couple "groups" on steel??? You have really presented very little.

Your negative tone is persistent through any post you don't like....

My "negative tone" only began when you avoided my questions and made outlandish claims. And for the record, I NEVER made any negative remarks about your work.

The drama brings in more lurkers to read the post and thus gets me more orders....

You could have answered my questions in a straightforward manner and avoided the "drama".

....we tend to know that as a keyboard warrior.

So we're getting personal now? I'm fairly certain that I own more revolvers, have handloaded and shot more rounds out of them than you have there sport. I guess I must've been planning to add that fourth press (third progressive) before the end of the year, just to decorate my bench. :roll:

And in closing once again your leather work looks nice...

Don't play games with me.

 

[CraigC]

Sorry but this thing is ridiculous. What is the point of a 300yd rig using a cartridge only good for about 75yds???

 

[bcgunworks]

I think I'll drop this right here.

 

[jules]

:lol:

 

[Ernie Bishop]

No Apologies required...Enjoy your opinion
Only 300 yards? :mrgreen:

Sorry but this thing is ridiculous. What is the point of a 300yd rig using a cartridge only good for about 75yds???

 

[bcgunworks]

More power!

 

[Rumrunner]

Cool, like that finish. Did that start life as a Redhawk 44mag?

Oops just saw your other post.

 

[bcgunworks]

Yup

 

[jules]

Too cool. And I get to shoot it tomorrow

 

[Rumrunner]

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[CraigC]

Butthurt? How old are you again???

Firstly, how exactly would I be "butthurt"??? I asked you simple, technical questions. I asked you about fitting oversized bolts, bearing blocks and lineboring, to which you responded with very vague, defensive and deflective nonsense about "reworked as needed".

I asked you to explain what testing was done to come up with your theory about barrel harmonics. You didn't.

You claimed that lineboring is unnecessary, I asked you to extrapolate. You didn't (or couldn't).

You claimed that your "shooting system" is the most accurate extant. I pointed out that such a claim would clearly imply that you think your work is better than very well known, very well established revolversmiths. You said, "I'm my own person". Whatever that means.

And now come the vain attempts at insults. Not very professional if you ask me.

So again, why can't you answer my basic questions? Do your customers not ask questions about your work, your testing and your conclusions???

Your results are nothing earth shattering. You're certainly not the first to shoot revolvers at long range. The only difference is that you're trying to turn a revolver into a specialty pistol, both with your shroud/barrel/big scope and your light bullets at high velocity. There are lots of folks here and on other sites who routinely shoot up to several hundred yards but they're not doing it with big scopes, 12" barrels and light bullets at extreme velocity. They're doing it with iron sights and heavy cast bullets. Ringing an 8" gong at 300yds with a handgun is not an unheard-of feat.

Here's what I think. You are a wet-behind-the-ears gunsmith trying to establish yourself in the market. You have found something you can build within your limited capabilities and you're trying to market it as innovative. That's fine. Except when pressed for details, you get defensive and rude. The crap about barrel harmonics and the whole theory behind the free float shroud is bogus. You (and Ernie) obviously have no clue what the established revolversmiths are doing, or you would've answered differently. You either don't know about bolt bearing blocks or it's beyond your capability. You get defensive because your capabilities are limited but you don't want anyone to know. The scratch-built linebored cylinder is beyond your capability, so rather than admit that, you downplay its importance. Now take note, none of this is a personal attack. You could've been a little more truthful but you chose to play this game.

 

[bcgunworks]

Did a little vermin hunting today. 357