Blackhawk 327X8

[Green Frog]

While I've sometimes been accused of having the attention span of a goldfish, I sometimes find something interesting to get and hold then come back to. When I was first introduced to the 327 and its possibilities, I jumped in and ordered the then-current production Stainless Eight Shot Blackhawk in 327. After some initial (very limited) testing, it languished in its pretty grey plastic box for a while as other projects attracted my attention, but I have dragged it back out now and am starting to get interested again.

A quick perusal of the forum and of Gun Broker has me wondering how long it was in production and how many were actually made... it seems to have disappeared faster than a fried chicken leg at a Baptist picnic! I see none for sale and no mention of anyone shooting the ones they have. How about it? Does anyone have one they are shooting regularly? Does anyone know anything about production numbers and dates? "Inquiring minds..."

TIA ~ Froggie

 

[Kevin]

There are a few people who have them here. I've got one and would love to find out how many were made. If you are thinking of selling your's make sure you ask enough for it. I bet they don't make any more of 'em.

 

[sandman228]

I wanted the Blackhawk in 327 back when the 327 fed was a fairly new caliber I ended up with the gp100 instead . I don't shoot it much anymore since I bought my 7.5 inch single seven a year or so ago . I know theres not a lot of gp100's in this caliber out there either I see them pulling big bucks on gun broker , ive advertised mine for half as much a time or 2 in a local classified but didn't get any takers .

 

[mhblaw]

I have one, but find the short barrel Single Seven more fun to shoot.

 

[Green Frog]

There are a few people who have them here. I've got one and would love to find out how many were made. If you are thinking of selling your's make sure you ask enough for it. I bet they don't make any more of 'em.

After I made the unforgivable mistake of selling my Ruger/Buckeye 32 Combo Blackhawk years ago, I will have to think long and hard before even considering selling this one. There are only a few guns I've sold that I truly regret not having now, but that one is at the very top of the short list!

I'm wondering whether there is anyone on this forum with access to production numbers, or anywhere that such in inquiry could be made. It seems like this info would be valuable to collectors, but it may be some sort of corporate secret.

Froggie

 

[contender]

Corporate doesn't ever publish production numbers.
We get good ideas from reported info by members here who help the RENE keep up with such stuff.
I happen to have the same gun you have, and I also know that there was a two-toned variation that came out.
Mine isn't for sale.

 

[Kevin]

A two toned version? Hmmm. I've never even seen an internet picture of one. Wonder what those are worth?

Mine by the way, is one of the more accurate revolvers I own.

 

[Hondo44]

The original all stainless model was only available with 5 1/2" barrel and is reported to have had one production run in the introduction year, although cataloged longer while distributors/dealers still had some in inventory. They were not fast sellers. They weren't enough made to even update the Ruger serial # website with them.

Most feel the large frame is too-heavy-for-caliber and wanted a mid frame or small single six frame. The .327 Single 7 replaced them and has been a big hit.

My friend, the OP Green Frog, will have the date on his fired cartridge envelope that came with his gun.

The two tone version was after the end of production and what's known as a 'clean-up' version, left over parts assembled and shipped out the door. From what I've heard, there were only 10 to 12 of them at the time. Stainless with blue cylinders and barrels if I recall correctly or maybe just cylinders or maybe both. Reports of them were sketchy.

 

[Kevin]

I just check and my gun came with a test fired case dated 12/22/2009. I suppose I must have bought it in the spring of 2010. I know I bought my .327 SP101 in May of 2010.

 

[Green Frog]

The original all stainless model was only available with 5 1/2" barrel and is reported to have had one production run in the introduction year, although cataloged longer while distributors/dealers still had some in inventory. They were not fast sellers. They weren't enough made to even update the Ruger serial # website with them.

Most feel the large frame is too-heavy-for-caliber and wanted a mid frame or small single six frame. The .327 Single 7 replaced them and has been a big hit.

My friend, the OP Green Frog, will have the date on his fired cartridge envelope that came with his gun.

The two tone version was after the end of production and what's known as a 'clean-up' version, left over parts assembled and shipped out the. From what I've heard, there were only 10 to 12 of them at the time. Stainless with blue cylinders and barrels if I recall correctly or maybe just cylinders or maybe both. Reports of them were sketchy.

Hondo44, you have forgotten how poor my organizational skills are! :mrgreen: I noticed the other day that the envelope for the fired cartridge is no longer in the case (nor yet any of the papers.) I have a place to start looking, but am not too hopeful. I wonder if we could get folks to post truncated serial numbers so we could at least try to establish a range? I'll go look for my SN and the fired cartridge envelope after supper and try to post what I find this evening.

Froggie

 

[32shooter]

I did get one of the two-toned guns. Date on envelope is 3/13. And it does get its turn at being shot.
Kevin, here is a pic for you.

 

[contender]

I think it'll be hard to get a good idea of the numbers due to the fact that Ruger used number with the same prefix as the .357. It'll take a long time of folks submitting their number, getting a tally & then it'll still be "open" due to not having factory info. Just look at the RENE & you will see similar things in other guns.
God bless Chad for all the work done on others like this for the RENE.

 

[Kevin]

32shooter. Thank you. You may very well have a pretty rare gun. I won't even bother asking g if it's for sale. I'm guessing not...

 

[32shooter]

Kevin, I think I will hang on to this one for the time being. Thanks.

 

[toroflow]

I did get one of the two-toned guns. Date on envelope is 3/13. And it does get its turn at being shot.
Kevin, here is a pic for you.

That one looks great!! Who did the grips? Grashorn? I may have to get all stainless 327 out and spray paint black the cylinder and ejector housing to make it look the same!!

 

[32shooter]

Thanks Toroflow. Not sure who did the grips. I bought them off of someone here on the forum. I think they may have been Grashorn. That just might work with the black paint. Post some pics when you get it done!! :lol: :lol:

 

[Green Frog]

OK, this just hit me. AFAIK, Ruger never made a blued, 8-shot Blackhawk. What was that cylinder "left over" from? Is it a 6-shot cylinder left from the old Buckeye Special run of the '90s, something custom-bored for the sole purpose of using up the other parts, or what? How many chambers? Although I am "satisfied" with my 8-shooter, I would really like to have had the opportunity to own a "regular" 6-shot revolver. JMHO, of course, but then again I'm sort of old school.

Froggie

 

[Green Frog]

Bump up toward the surface. Still wondering about particulars of those elusive "pinto" 327s. Also would be curious about how many of them are out there (both those being shot and those stashed away as "investments.")

Froggie

 

[Hondo44]

OK, this just hit me. AFAIK, Ruger never made a blued, 8-shot Blackhawk. What was that cylinder "left over" from? Is it a 6-shot cylinder left from the old Buckeye Special run of the '90s, something custom-bored for the sole purpose of using up the other parts, or what? How many chambers? Although I am "satisfied" with my 8-shooter, I would really like to have had the opportunity to own a "regular" 6-shot revolver. JMHO, of course, but then again I'm sort of old school.

Froggie

Hi Charlie,

You're correct, Ruger did not make a blued version. The blue 327 cyls are 8 shot by counting the futes and notches in the photo above. The "Buckeye" BHs are 6 shot and only chambered for the 32 H&R.

Therefore I'm quite sure the blue cyls were not "left over". I highly suspect, because it's not the first time it's happened at Ruger, that the employee chambering .327 cyls mistook carbon steel cyl blanks for SS blanks and machined them into .327 8 shot cyls. But Ruger doesn't scrap good parts and there were plenty of generic large frame SS frames for other models to assemble the 10 or 12 mistake cyls into "clean up" guns and sell them. The blue ER housing was probably just a cosmetic addition, because they are generic and there would be planty in SS on hand at Ruger.

Your best plan for a 6 shot 327 cyl for your gun is a Buckeye 32 H&R cyl reamed the additional 1/10" to 327. I've done several. It won't be SS but can be stripped and have a satin finish applied. Then it will match your SS gun exactly. But your chances of finding the cyl are slim to none, and Slim left town a long time ago.

The next best plan, only realistic plan, and cheapest plan would be to pick up a 30 caliber cyl and re-chamber to 327. Yes, the back half of the chambers will be slightly oversize by about .006" per side but acceptable. And the chamber shoulder will be a little extra long but still plenty of cyl throat for accuracy. And again not a problem since the 327 is a rimmed case. Also only available in blue, I think, but again, you could strip and apply a satin finish as above.

 

[Green Frog]

Jim,

Thanks for your thoughtful and informative (as always) reply. I was sort of engaging in a little "grass is always greener" flight of fancy... if I had never been so stupid as to sell my 32-20/ 32 H&R Buckeye Special, it would now be reamed to 327, it would still handle 32-20 and "all would be right with the world." I know it seems like a step backwards to miss what is arguably a "lesser" gun, but the flexibility of a convertible cylinder plus the old school 6 shot capacity still appeal to me. I guess I could go another way and find a 30 Carbine BH cylinder and ream it to 32-20 then refinish it to imitate SS, I wonder how the hand and bolt stop from my 8 shooter would accept the 6 shot cylinder? Would they "play nicely" together? :?:

Actually, I wouldn't presume to alter the BH-8 since it has a significant place in Ruger lore already and will probably only continue to grow in mythic stature, but if I could just add another cylinder, convertible style... :roll:

Froggie

PS With regards to your mention of the short, limited, and seemingly unpopular production run of the BH-8, I just found out about them serendipitously near the end of their availability and quickly ordered mine from a distributor, not even knowing about the 8 shot feature, only the caliber. It seems like if Ruger actually wanted to sell the model, they could have given it a LITTLE more publicity! It's like they were ashamed of it or something. :?

 

[Kevin]

Hondo, let me say thanks for all that information as well. And if I may ask just a quick question for clarification.

The 30 carbine can be reamed out to .327 without doing anything to the barrel? It would seem going that route with a used 30 carbine would be about the same price as a new single seven. Or! Convert an old model. Hmm...

Thanks!

 

[Hondo44]

Froggie,

You are correct to question the pawl, I'm sorry, I completely neglected to address it. Perhaps because fortunately, it's a non-issue in the situation discussed above; changing to a cyl with less chambers. I posted the attached recently in another thread about the feasibility of adding a 6 or 9 shot mag auxiliary 22 mag cyl to a 22 LR Single 10:

Using Convertible cylinders with less chambers:

When cyl chamber count increases, like from 6 to 10, or 9 to 10, the cyl hand (pawl) is required to be slightly shorter because the cylinder doesn't have to be rotated as far from one chamber to the next; 60 degrees to 36 degrees and 40 degrees to 36 degrees respectively. And the shape of the teeth on the hand become more critical (please see photo below). Therefore, cyls with less chambers will most always work in guns with hands fitted for cyls with more chambers.

I say, “most always” because there's no rule, and all parts have some variations. But most hammers will over travel enough in the grip frame slot to push a cylinder with less chambers far enough to lock up in line with the barrel, and therefore it's perfectly safe to shoot. That's all there is to it. In an 8 or 10 shot gun, for example, the hammer will move far enough to the rear for a cyl with less chambers to lock up in line with the barrel. The cyl usually won't lock up until after the full cock click which is not ideal timing but it's safe and it works! That's better than the cyl locking before the full cock click, or the hammer could not be cocked w/o forcing it and binding the cyl, if at all. Of course Ideal timing is when cyl lock up occurs simultaneously with the full cock click, but not required and many Rugers come from the factory when this is not the case.

So in summary, a cyl locking up before the hammer cocks is what ‘can’ occur when using a cyl with more chambers in a gun with cyl of a lesser number of chambers, and it’s because the pawl is longer. But it should be tried before saying it ‘won’t’ work. Also the 2nd tooth length on the hand can be “compromised” to work with both a 6 shot and 8 shot cyl.

The next logical question is how do those aftermarket 8 shot 22 cylinders “drop in” and work as advertised in 6 shot Rugers. The reason the 8 shot cylinders work in 6 shot revolvers is because the cyl rotation difference between chambers for the 8 shot cyl of 45 degrees, is closer to the 60 degrees of the 6 shot cyl, than the 40 degrees of rotation for a 9 shot, and much closer than the 36 degrees of a 10 shot cyl.

In addition the aftermarket 8 shot cylinders may have the ratchet notches on the cyl cut with a bit more tolerance for the longer 6 shot hand. Which in turn creates more tolerance in the hammer travel so it can reach full cock without the 8 shot cyl rotating the full 60 degrees of the 6 shot.

Notice the bottom tooth of the 10 shot cyl hand (pawl) on left is shorter (and shaped more precisely) than the 6 shot pawl on the right:

Note: As with all cylinder swaps, the main issue of concern is overall cyl length. Is it too long or too short to fit the cyl window? Too long is simple, dress down the gas ring on the front of the cyl to fit the frame.

Recognize, the 30 carbine cyl presents a great opportunity to turn a larger frame 327 into a convertible 32-20 as well, when re-chambered to 327! Note that an OM 30 Carbine cyl requires a 32-20 rim size chamber recess because the rim is about .050” larger than the 327 rim. See post below.

Hope this helps,

 

[Green Frog]

My only experiences with convertibles has been the brief time I had the Buckeye Special with two 32 cylinders (factory, worked fine) and a 45 Colt BH for which I found a random 45 ACP cylinder at a gun show. It was a drop-in fit and was actually more accurate than the factory fitted original! I wonder though, do all of the BH cylinders have the same length, or does it vary by caliber, etc.? This may be terrible thread drift, but what the heck, I started the thread! ;0

 

[Hondo44]

Hondo, let me say thanks for all that information as well. And if I may ask just a quick question for clarification.

The 30 carbine can be reamed out to .327 without doing anything to the barrel? It would seem going that route with a used 30 carbine would be about the same price as a new single seven. Or! Convert an old model. Hmm...

Thanks!

You're very welcome Kevin,

Recognize the example above is re-chambering a 30 Carbine cyl to 327, but for use in a 327 gun, so the barrel groove is correct at .312".

However, this will address your question because it's true for shooting .327 ina .30 Carb Ruger. Actually re-chambering for 327 is only required for an OM .30 Carbine as explained below.

Ruger's NM .30 Carbine Blackhawk will shoot off the shelf .32-20, no re-chambering needed. If you reload, you can even reload 32-20 in .30 Carbine dies and the case necks will not be worked as much. Use a .32-20 shell holder. There's a difference in bullet diameters, .312” vs. .308” but they shoot with fine accuracy.
They will tend to raise pressure slightly in the smaller .308" barrel diameter although of no consequence in the robust Ruger cyl and way under its max pressure limits. And you may have some leading with lead bullets depending on hardness.

If you reload you can use .308 bullets too.

Even though the .30 Carbine is a rimless round it's a good thing the NM lets the .30 case head stick out more than just the rim thickness since the .32-20 rim is .016" thicker. But may bind slightly in some revolvers.

.32-20 cannot be fired in OM Ruger .30 Carbine guns as is. The recessed chambers enclose the .30 carbine rim so the rimmed 32-20 case head won't fit in the end of the chamber. A simple recess cut in the chambers will fix that.

The OM cylinder chambers recess the .30 round flush to the rear cyl face so a counter-bore equal to the .061" thickness of the .32-20 rim is needed in the OM chambers. Or the cylinder can be faced off .061”.

 

[Hondo44]

My only experiences with convertibles has been the brief time I had the Buckeye Special with two 32 cylinders (factory, worked fine) and a 45 Colt BH for which I found a random 45 ACP cylinder at a gun show. It was a drop-in fit and was actually more accurate than the factory fitted original! I wonder though, do all of the BH cylinders have the same length, or does it vary by caliber, etc.? This may be terrible thread drift, but what the heck, I started the thread! ;0

I added this to my previous post to you:
The 30 carbine cyl, when re-chambered to 327, presents a great opportunity to turn a large frame 327 into a convertible 32-20 as well. Note that an OM 30 Carbine cyl which seats the 30 C case head flush, requires a 32-20 rim size chamber recess because the rim is about .050” larger than the 327 rim.

You're right, it's your thread so you can drift from hell to breakfast if you want!

Overall cyl lengths are all the same for each frame size, with the usual slight variations. The only cyl body length difference is the 357 Large frame cyl; it's shorter than the 30 Carbine, 41M, 44M, and 45 cyls.

 

[Stoneagle]

I understand that the two tone, (catalog no. KBN-3275A), was actually an error. There were supposedly 68 non stainless cylinders produced by mistake, and rather than scrap them they built them, gave them their own model no, (00356), and made them available to employees. Mine is as pictured above, (except with factory grips), blue cylinder, ejector, and ejector housing. SN is roughly 20 numbers higher than 32shooter's. Fired case is also dated 3/13. My source didn't know if all 68 were actually produced or not.

 

[Hondo44]

Yes, an error and not uncommon at Ruger with pre blued carbon steel and stainless parts. I have not heard the 68 number before, and I'm not disputing it. But when you say "supposedly" what is your source for that number?

P.S. I know you meant blued cylinder.

 

[Stoneagle]

Thanks for the "proof reading", Jim. And I read that post several times before pushing the button! The 68 comes from the employee who I got the piece from. I haven't seen the number in writing, so will not state it as gospel. One of my sons had an M77 MK II "stainless" several years ago that showed slight rusting every time he returned from the woods. Turns out the entire rifle was raw carbon steel, (action, barrel, and all!). At the time I tried to find a collector who'd have liked it for his collection with no luck, so it went back and they replaced it with a real stainless one. This .327 is big, but it sure is pretty. The problem with it is it's NIB so I haven't fired it. When I can ascertain a realistic value I'll probably put it up front in the display rack for sale.

Dick

 

[Hondo44]

Hi Dick,

Very interesting about the M77. But I believe it!

You have a beautiful 327 and it is no doubt collectible. I don't believe in holding onto guns I can't shoot. But I'm not a collector in the truest sense of the term, I like to enjoy my guns more or at least in a different way by using them. And as investments, except in rare incidents, the potential appreciation doesn't keep up with my investment portfolio.

I think what you propose is the wisest thing; give it a year or so to see what the price may escalate to in the short term, sell it, make a few bucks, and invest the money or more likely trade to a collector for a standard all stainless version to shoot and pocket the difference.

 

[lolbell]

The 327 is a favorite of mine. Cheaper to plink with than a 22. I have a Blackhawk that I bought used virtually unfired a few years ago. After some time with it at the loading bench and range it quickly became a favorite.

After the Single Seven came about I had to have a couple of those. Then the SP101 came out again. I had to have one of those, the wife took that one from me by the way, it's her everyday carry. So far I have held off on the LCR, but who knows, I'll probably wind up with one of those.

When the wife and I go shooting we carry at least the SS, SP101, and the Blackhawk in 327.

I would give my eye teeth for that 2 tone, Is it an eight shot? I wonder why the blued cylinder. I don't recall a blued 327 Blackhawk in production so it would not be a cylinder from clean up parts. Did they have to produce the cylinder or maybe it's a 32 HR cylinder reamed for length to accept a 327.

Maybe some one can chime in here with more knowledge (Hondo....Contender....sombody)

OK time to feel like a horses rosett. I posted with out reading the second page. I think all of my questions have already been answered I haven't got the first cup of java down yet