45 Colt load question

[hunter966]

Well I finally bought some Laser Cast .451 250gr. RNFP bullets and put 9gr. Unique under them to shoot out of my Ruger Vaquero and I am wondering two things.

First from what I've read this charge should be easy on the gun and this load shoots to point of aim at 20 yards, where as 8.5gr. shot low. Is 9 grains good to go as a everyday load?

Second, I don't have a chrono so can anyone give me a ball park idea as to the velocity?

I appreciate it, hunter966

 

[Mus408]

I stick to 8 gr. of Unique with my Ruger NV and get around 840-860 FPS with 250-255 gr. hard cast bullets. I believe 9 gr. is close to the limit for the small frame SA revolvers.

 

[hunter966]

Thanks. I've got the large frame Vaquero and I know there's loads meant for each one and I don't want to jack up my pisotol.

 

[Mus408]

You should be fine with 9 on the older larger frame Vaquero.

 

[Sagebrush Burns]

There are a lot of variables possible, but your load should be in the 900-1000 fps range.l I'd have no problem running that through a Colt or a small frame New Vaquero.

 

[tsubaki]

Some of the published data close to your loads:

Lyman 250gr #454190 sized to .452", test firearm 7 1/2" Blackhawk, 9.0gr Unique 875fps (factory duplication load).

RCBS 250gr 45-250-FN .452", test firearm 5 1/2" Colt, 8.4gr Unique 902fps.

Speer 250gr 45LSWC .452", test firearm 5 1/2" Colt, 8.6gr Unique 891fps to 9.5gr Unique 941fps.

 

[Mtneer]

Hunter 966, 9 grains should be fine in your Ruger. However, in my experience if your goal is to make your revolver shoot higher at 20 yards, you're going the wrong way with your powder charge. Revolvers are funny that way - because how high or low they shoot at a given distance depends so much on recoil, which begins before the bullet leaves the barrel, the longer the time the bullet spends in the barrel, the higher it will shoot. That's why if you drop down to some lighter weight 225 grain bullets in your Ruger, and kick them out at say, 1300 fps, you're probably going to find they shoot even lower at 20 yards than the 250 grain bullets you're kicking out at only 800 to 900 fps.

 

[Sagebrush Burns]

9.0 of Unique should deliver in the range of 900 to 1000 fps with that bullet. Each gun varies (even same mfr and bbl length) but that is the range my chronograph testing has produced with 5 1/2" Rugers and 5 1/2" and 7 1/2" Colts.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Hunter 966, 9 grains should be fine in your Ruger. However, in my experience if your goal is to make your revolver shoot higher at 20 yards, you're going the wrong way with your powder charge.

I have found when using the same bullet, increasing the powder charge, will usually raise the POI with more recoil.

 

[Mtneer]

Hunter 966, 9 grains should be fine in your Ruger. However, in my experience if your goal is to make your revolver shoot higher at 20 yards, you're going the wrong way with your powder charge.

I have found when using the same bullet, increasing the powder charge, will usually raise the POI with more recoil.

Strange, as I said, it has been my experience that revolvers shoot to a lower POI with larger powder charges behind the same bullets, even though recoil IS increased. Maybe it has something to do with barrel length? Most of my revolver handloading experience is with 10.5” Ruger Super Silhouette .44 Magnums.

Then again, maybe I should have qualified what I said about slower moving bullets from revolvers printing higher by saying “at close range, 25 yards or less.” Naturally, if you’re talking about something like tipping over metallic silhouettes, where the targets are 50 to 200 meters away, bullet drop becomes a factor and slower moving bullets hit lower. That’s IF you can raise your revolvers rear sight enough so that you can even hit a 200 meter ram with a relatively slow moving bullet. Besides that, if and when the bullet even gets there, it might not have enough energy left to tip over a 45lb. steel ram. :lol:

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Then again, maybe I should have qualified what I said about slower moving bullets from revolvers printing higher by saying “at close range, 25 yards or less.” Naturally, if you’re talking about something like tipping over metallic silhouettes, where the targets are 50 to 200 meters away, bullet drop becomes a factor and slower moving bullets hit lower. That’s IF you can raise your revolvers rear sight enough so that you can even hit a 200 meter ram with a relatively slow moving bullet. Besides that, if and when the bullet even gets there, it might not have enough energy left to tip over a 45lb. steel ram. :lol:

My experience usually involves shooting at targets at 25 yards with two different 44 magnum 7.5" using 240gr bullets with different powders and charges. If I get on target with lighter loads and then switch to heaver loads I shoot higher, usually 3"-6" at 25 yards.

 

[Mtneer]

I believe you Jimbo, and it sounds like you have a lot of experience. But it does sound very strange to me, because as far as adjusting the powder to raise or lower the POI for short range revolver loads, your experiences have been the exact opposite of mine.

A couple of months ago I bought myself a little, Model 60 Smith with a 3” barrel. I was planning on using it as my everyday carry gun while working outside, around our place. We have a small acreage, out of town a ways.

Anyway, ever since I bought that revolver, I’ve been trying to work up a medium load for it that doesn’t print high at 25 yards, using the 158 grain SWC-HP GC bullets I bought 800 of along with the revolver. So far I haven’t succeeded. I started with 6.0 grains of Unique – it printed about 7” high. I’ve worked up to 7.2 grains of Unique now, and it still prints a little better than 3” high. And that’s with the rear sight screwed all the way down. With that load, I can keep it on, or close to a 2” bullseye at 25 yards by letting just the tip of the front sight show in the notch of the rear sight as I hold at 6:00 o’clock on the bullseye. But 7.2 grains of Unique is a little hotter than I want to use in my little, j-frame Smith. The recoil is just too darned snappy for my 68 year old wrist.

I have some other medium loads using those same bullets but different powders (Titegroup and CFE Pistol) already built and sitting on my loading bench. As soon as I get a chance, I’ll get out and try them. If they too print high, I’m going to be ordering a taller front sight.

BTW, the 50 rounds of factory, 357 Magnum, 125 grain jacketed HP’s the dealer threw in were just obnoxious. With my revolver’s 3” barrel, I was glad I doubled up on hearing protection. I think they were printing somewhere close to POA, but because of the concussions I could feel, even on my pants legs, after a cylinder full I was shaking so badly it was hard to tell. :shock:

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I get the same result when shooting 38's and 357, 158gr bullets, out of my 3' SP-101. The 357's print considerably higher at 10 yards.

 

[Mtneer]

I get the same result when shooting 38's and 357, 158gr bullets, out of my 3' SP-101. The 357's print considerably higher at 10 yards.

Strange.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I get the same result when shooting 38's and 357, 158gr bullets, out of my 3' SP-101. The 357's print considerably higher at 10 yards.

Strange.

Ask anyone that has an SP-101 about shooting 38's and 357 magnums in their guns. I think they will tell you the same thing. It's a known fact that the sights on SP-101's are regulated for 158gr 357 magnum rounds and 38 special's will shoot low.