44 special load in 44mag

crow#2

Single-Sixer
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Mooreland Indiana
Just want to stay safe. I understand reduced loads can be dangerous.So is it ok,,safe to load a let's say 240 gr rnfp in a 44 mag casing and use a powder charge recommended for this bullet in a 44 spl.
If I understand correctly the 44 split loadings cam be used in 44 mag casings safely.
 
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Read this middle paragraph. I'm trying to figure all this out
 

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A lot depends upon WHICH powder & primer combo you use.

I load .44 Spl in .44 Spl cases using a tried & proven load of 7.5 grns of Unique. But if I wanted to load that same load in a .44 Mag case,, I'd measure things to make sure there was not an excessive amount of air space between the base of the bullet and the top of the powder. There will be an air space in the .44 Spl case,, and it should only increase by the same amount as the different dimensions of the cases.

But if you wish to be safe,, you can do what many used to do long ago,, (myself included,) when using a very hot fast powder,, (Bullseye,) in .38 spl cases. #.2 grns of powder & a WC bullet. To assure correct ignition, and uniformity I would place a "space filler" of a small wad of poly fiber fill material (normally used as pillow stuffing,) on top of the powder, below the bullet. It would occupy the empty air space, and allow uniform ignition.
 
Crow#2, I am not trying to belittle you, but maybe save you. Do not get load data from the internet. Buy a hand loading manual. Speer, hornady, and several others are on the market and affordable. Please don't blow up a gun or even worse, YOU.
 
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My personal favorite for manuals is the Lyman, the current edition is #51. For newer reloaders it has a lot of 'how to' information.

Lyman doesn't sell powders or bullets, with the result that their load data covers more makers of components.

If I get data from the web it's only from a powder manufacturer's website.
 
I've got the lee manual had Speer and hornaday 20 plus years ago but got out of reloading. Traded off everything like a dummy.lol
I feel that I am more concerned about the aspects of reliading now. Meaning I want to know more. So much to learn with burn rates, pressures, sammi specs, toggle links. Starting ti think I should have bought a diff rifle than the uberti 45 lc but it's such a cool looking gun. Besides I don't hunt anymore.
 
I'm guessing that Crow's problem can't be addressed in a handloader's manual because, unless they've changed, the manuals don't offer loads that address using smaller cases; they are case specific. So, the manual itself would not help the Crow. Yes/No?

J.
 
Johnnu2:
Loading manuals list loads that are safe in a certain case, certain bullet, certain powder. If they don't "offer loads that address using smaller cases", then that means that they probably aren't safe/may cause issues.
 
Nika I do have a manual. Just a little overl cautious.
RTFM. Compare data between the .44 Spl and .44 Mag loads to determine where the magnum can be downloaded to special velocities. It is generally not an issue but may not be safe with all loads due to pressure spikes, etc.

Consider it this way: if a listed magnum load produces velocities in the special range (900 fps or less), it's effectively a special load in a magnum case. Most .44 data I have in manuals lists this type of load.
 
One manual is not enough. I spent an hour yesterday poring over 8 manuals and three manufacturer websites trying to maximize a particular load doing a similar exercise as you. It took a lot of looking and calculating as the manuals overlapped and some had the starting point at the end point of others. You need to KNOW what you are doing if you stray from the printed formulas. I did a fair amount of wildcatting when I was younger, so I am not afraid to go outside the book, but I am darn sure I did a lot of research before I do.
 
@crow#2 you might consider loaddata.com as there is a mind boggling amount of .44 Magnum data there from many, many sources. I've been a subscriber for years now and haven't bought a paper manual in quite some time.
 
I load for both the .44 Spl. and the .44 mag. My pet load for the .44 Spl. id 7.5 gr. Unique. You can use that load in the .44 mag. as well. Bullets used are 240 to 250 gr. cast bullets depending on which mold I happen to be casting with at any particular time. The only problem with it in magnum brass os a slight loss in velocity.

Where one might/will run into a problem is if using one of the slower burning powders like W296/H110 and maybe 2400 although I've always reserved 2400 strictly for the .357 and .44 magnums. FWIW, my preference for the lighter loads is Unique and 2400 for full power magnums. I only shoot my home cast bullets in my handguns.
Paul B.
 
I have loaded thousands of .44's, Special and Magnum, over a lot of years, some of them, soft-puffers in a magnum case. I've always got the recipe from a known and respected reloading manual. And when doing so, I find a satisfactory recipe using very bulky Hercules shotgun powders. Those powders use up enough case, I do not worry about a detonation.
 
For safest reloading to avoid concerns and eliminate doubts:
If you want reduced 44 magnum loads only use 44 mag data for light loads, period.
If you want even milder loads, switch to 44 Special cases and loads.

Tip: for light loads use a bulky powder to better fill cases. Trail Boss powder is made specific for this purpose for cowboy action shooters who prefer low recoil. Buy their loading manual.

Tip #2: steer clear of Bullseye powder, especially for light loads for two reasons:
1. It's a fast burning (high pressure) powder and therefore a very small volume powder which makes it more difficult to recognize a double charge when reloading, especially in a large case like 44 cases.

2. Small loads will spread out along the bottom side of the case when in the chamber. So instead of ignition and controlled combustion the result is detonation when the full surface of the powder ignites at once. This can be more destructive than an overload.

For those two reasons Bullseye loads especially light Bullseye loads are associated with more mishaps than other powders.
 
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For safest reloading to avoid concerns and eliminate doubts:
If you want reduced 44 magnum loads only use 44 mag data for light loads, period.
If you want even milder loads, switch to 44 Special cases and loads.

Tip: for light loads use a bulky powder to better fill cases. Trail Boss powder is made specific for this purpose for cowboy action shooters who prefer low recoil. Buy their loading manual.

Tip #2: steer clear of Bullseye powder, especially for light loads for two reasons:
1. It's a high pressure powder and therefore very small volume powder which makes it more difficult to recognize a double charge when reloading, especially in a large case like 44 cases.

2. Small loads will spread out along the bottom side of the case when in the chamber. So instead of ignition and controlled combustion the result is detonation when the full surface of the powder ignites at once. This can be more destructive than an overload.

For those two reasons Bullseye loads especially light Bullseye loads are associated with more mishaps than other powders.

I disagree with your assertion regarding Bullseye. It is not a "higher pressure" powder at all unless it is misused, same as any powder. Yes, it (and other powders) can easily be double-charged in some cases, but handloading is not for idiots or careless individuals.

With the cost of powder lately as well as the uncertainty of its availability, I've begun using faster burning powders such as Bullseye and its twin and now discontinued, IMR-Target, because one can achieve the same velocities as with slower burning powders but with much lighter charges. I've been using these two in .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum and 45 Colt.

As to your point #2, I'd like to see some first-hand evidence of detonation. Here's mine for lack of problems-
A dozen years ago I began competing in our local High Power matches (reduced course) with one of my Swiss K-31's. Seeing no need in burying 30¢(at the time) Matchkings in a 100 yd. berm, I developed a very accurate load consisting of a cast 145 gr. FP over 6.7 gr. of Bullseye in the 7.5x55 case. I used that load for 10 months worth of 80 round matches which would've meant, not counting load development and practicing, about 850-900 rounds of this very light load of Bullseye fired....with no detonation. More recently I fire-lapped my Flat Top .44 Special as well as a '94 Winchester 30-30 using a .5 Lee Dipper about 2/3 full of Bullseye which would be around 3 grs. 70-80 rounds through the .44 with 255 gr. bullets and another 20 with 220 gr. bullets through the 30-30 and again, not a single problem.

I understand encouraging caution, but some of these nanny-like warnings do nothing but cause confusion for new handloaders. So instead throwing some random, ambiguous warning out there, how about we just encourage them to follow the powder manufacturers data?
 
Trail Boss is unobtainable. Unless you find an old jug on a shelf or at a gun show, you will likely never see it again. Wasn't all that great of a powder anyway. The ONLY thing it did well was fill the case. Other powders did everything else better.
 
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Personally, I would look for a 'bulky' powder to help prevent 'double charge'. I had this happen ONCE with a light load in a 357 case. Blew out the cylinder and bent the top strap of a Blackhawk. NOT FUN.
 
It depends on the caliber and on the powder. In rifles with certain powders there is something called SEE or Secondary Explosive Effect. It can also occur is pistol calibers under certain circumstances. it seems the light load detonates instead of progressively burns. Back when revolvers ruled bullseye shooting there was many a revolver ruined with a light load of Bullseye powder.
 
Trail Boss is unobtainable. Unless you find an old jug on a shelf or at a gun show, you will likely never see it again. Wasn't all that great of a powder anyway. The ONLY thing it did well was fill the case. Other powders did everything else better.
Trail Boss worked well with my 45-70 ammo....

J.
 
I will pitch my hat in this ring on the side of Hondo 44. I don't doubt what 308 Scout claimed to have been his experience. What he is ignoring or ignorant of is past history. In the days when Smith & Wesson model Seventeens and Colt target 38 revolvers were widely used in handgun target competition match shooting, there were enough detonations that took place to cause quiet an uproar in the shooting world. The powder companies and gun makers tried their best to duplicate the condition to come up with a remedy. They could never get it to happen in a lab. A lot of Monday morning quarterbacks swore these events happened from double charges. Their claims exposed their ignorance of the subject because a double charge of the amount used would not be dangerous. These events were random and could happen while using a load the shooter had been using for many thousands of round without mishap. But, in some cases, not so much. It drove people batty.
When I started loading, I read about the condition. My wife was a gifted seamstress so I went to the fabric store with her and pick up a bag of pillow stuffing. One bag was a lifetime supply. I would pinch off a small amount and stuff it into the case over the powder charge and then load my bullet. Most of the time you could not tell it was in the case, but now and then if I got a little generous on the "pinch" I would have tiny feather like particles falling out of the air after a shot. What I did not experience is any harm to my handguns and that was my goal.
A few years ago, I read a string of posts on the Cast Boolet Forum that was a discussion by some posters about using small amounts of Red Dot powder in 444 cases to shoot mouse fart loads in that caliber. I tried to warn them to refrain from that practice due to its Russian Roulette type danger of a detonation. They got highly indignant at the very idea. I believe in letting people do as they want in this country while they are still free to do so. I said no more, after giving them the information.
I have the same outlook in this situation. Continue on the path if you choose to do so. Feel free to label us "naysayers" how you choose. I wish you good luck. I hope you are one of the ones that manage to win the game no matter how many times you spin the cylinder.
 
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I will pitch my hat in this ring on the side of Hondo 44. I don't doubt what 308 Scout claimed to have been his experience. What he is ignoring or ignorant of is past history. In the days when Smith & Wesson model Seventeens and Colt target 38 revolvers were widely used in handgun target competition match shooting, there were enough detonations that took place to cause quiet an uproar in the shooting world. The powder companies and gun makers tried their best to duplicate the condition to come up with a remedy. They could never get it to happen in a lab. A lot of Monday morning quarterbacks swore these events happened from double charges. Their claims exposed their ignorance of the subject because a double charge of the amount used would not be dangerous. These events were random and could happen while using a load the shooter had been using for many thousands of round without mishap. But, in some cases, not so much. It drove people batty.

Ignoring or ignorant of history? Please, PLEASE point me to where I can read about this history. I've read SIXGUNS, pored through my fathers old reloading manuals, re-read Ken Waters Pet Loads for the .38 Special, including an article that focused on wadcutters and light charges of fast powders such as Bullseye, re-checked the old Hercules and new Alliant manuals for warnings, looked through my handloading manuals and found exactly nothing regarding this uproar of which you speak. You're telling us that this horrible occurrence could not be repeated in a laboratory setting, yet it could happen at any time with shooters outside the lab.
Do you not realize just how absurd all this sounds???? Can you not understand why the posters on the Cast Boolit forum rolled their collective eyes at this nonsense?
 
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