vehicle brake lines

[Mobuck]

I suppose these problems show up in any part of the country where snow/slush/salt is a fact of life but dang it's frustrating to deal with.
GA's pickup suffered a rear brake line blow-out last Friday. I can't say for sure but most likely due to corrosion of the steel line (not the first time or first vehicle this has happened). She left her trailer at a sort of secure place and drove home with only front brakes. I checked it out yesterday and just as I expected the line had popped in a totally unreachable spot behind the gas tank. I'm pretty sure I can't remove the bed w/o twisting off some bolts or the welded in nuts on the bottom of the bed. Only reasonable fix is cut out 5-6' of brake line and bypass the damaged area.
I can't figure why vehicle makers hide lines/wiring/??? in places that can't be accessed later??? Since brake lines are a creature all their own dimensions, I'll have to cut out a short section to take along for sizing.

 

[eveled]

I upgraded my jeep and pickup to stainless steel lines. Tough stuff to work with but worth it.

Like you say sometimes you have to run it differently than the factory. It is pretty obvious to me the brake lines are installed on a bare frame before anything else.

Really odd you posted today. I woke up from a dream this morning that I blew a brake line in a truck that wasn’t mine trying to tow a trailer home.

It was a rubber line at a caliper in my dream.

 

[GasGuzzler]

Probably 3/16" or 5 mm. Unions are an industry no-no but I would use them on my own brake lines if need be. Worst part is manufacturers don't sell brake lines...they only sell coiled bulk pipe. Good luck.

 

[Killer Bee]

NiCopp (nickel copper) ftw! perfect for this situation and very field friendly repair.

I had the same thing happen to me a few years ago, mine happened in the shed though fortunately. After replacing a bad master cylinder on a '71 longhorn, rusty rear brake tubing in the right frame rail popped while bleeding rear brakes. figured it out after about the third lap from the wheel cylinder to the brake pedal to the master cylinder going down further than what was coming out of the bleeder

was planning to attend a show in Independence so resorted to local parts store 'in-stock' options. Available sticks of steel tubing weren't long enough to reach from the factory union in the frame to the rear bulkhead fitting without adding another union.

I have quite a bit of high pressure hydraulic tube bending experience as part of my trade. heavy wall, stainless, high pressure, etc. can be challenging although I always recommend OEM steel brake lines where possible. since some of my shops had used NiCopp successfully to replace obsolete tubing or limited access runs that would require excessive labor costs, I figured I'd try it.

NiCopp comes in rolls and is very easy to bend by hand and flares easily. biggest downside is it doesn't really hold a ruler straight line because it comes off a roll. big upside is less connections on long runs and corrosion resistant.

so after making the store rounds I ended up back at Napa for a roll of NiCopp tubing and a handful of B nuts. You'll need a double flare kit, cutter and reamer which I'm sure you already have. give it a generous shot of brake cleaner and some shop air to make sure it's clean inside before installation. worked out very well and I would use it again for something not fast or requiring high performance tubing. and remember - make sure both B nuts are on the tube facing the right direction before you flare the second side

could be a quick inexpensive alternative to get your missus back on the road until you figure out what your final configuration will be. I have no intentions on replacing my repair on the longhorn, it's a chore truck not a race car or trailer queen.

if I was closer I'd come over and replace the b/o line for you, or at least give you a length off the rest of the 25' coil I still have. lots of info out there on it and feel free to reach out to me if there's anything I can help with.

good luck!

eta; found a picture of the factory brake line that failed. ruptured while bleeding brakes after replacing master cylinder, I guess normal brake line pressure was too much for it

 

[Jeepnik]

and remember - make sure both B nuts are on the tube facing the right direction before you flare the second side

Rookie mistake. I, of course, have done that. Well except a time or three

 

[fiasconva]

What a coincident! A couple of weeks ago I had a brake line leak in the line running to the rear brakes. Had to have it towed from a tire dealership because they didn't do that kind of work. First time I've ever had that happen to one of my vehicles. Heck, my truck is only 21 years old and only has 152K on it, barely broken in.

 

[jimbo1096]

I used to be in the plumbing and general maintenance. I put the nuts on the wrong way more than once even though I think I’m double checking myself before its flared, this goes to show everybody can be a dumbass at least once.

 

[Mobuck]

The task is complete although I'm always concerned about getting all the air out of those lines. Bleeders are rusted solid.
Seems to be safe enough after a few burps at the master cylinder. Warning light went out and pedal is firm.
BTW, the new line I got at Oreilly's is much easier to work with and bend than the older hard steel lines I'm familiar with. Just an FYI.
Probably going to upgrade that pickup before next summer. When she bought it, her 'business' was a few boxes of tupperware in the topper and a 40-50 mile trip on Saturdays. For the past year, she's been dragging a trailer 200-400 miles 2-3 times per month. Not sure a 20 year old pickup is suitable regardless of the mileage.

 

[gjgalligan]

Back in my youth when a brake line broke a piece of rubber hose, 2 hose clamps and some sealer fixed things just fine. That was only on my cars.

 

[Fox Mike]

I guess I am just very lucky. I am 88 and have been driving since I was 14 (you do the math). I have owned and driven untold different automobiles, in all those years, and have never had a brake line problem.

 

[Jeepnik]

I used to be in the plumbing and general maintenance. I put the nuts on the wrong way more than once even though I think I’m double checking myself before its flared, this goes to show everybody can be a dumbass at least once.

Not that I've done it, but have you ever done it twice in a row on the same piece of tubing?

 

[Killer Bee]

I guess alot has to do with age of vehicles and part of the country they operate in, Missouri rust is legendary

back in the early 90's I was stationed on Treasure Island for C school.

heading to class one morning from the barracks there on the bottom of the photo, the right front brake hose burst in my 68' GMC C20 three on the tree and single pot master cylinder, just before the stop sign at that left turn by the school house.

Thankfully I was able to grab one gear down and pull hand brake to avoid going over the rocks and out to sea.

after school that afternoon, I drove that truck with no brakes into San Francisco to an auto parts store and back to the base auto hobby shop to make repairs.

ah, the good 'ol fearlees sailor days

my '68 GMC parked by the barracks just about where that yellow line above starts

 

[Yaworski]

Back in the late 90s, I was headed home on a rainy evening and stomped on the brakes. Warning lights came on and the car did not stop. The metal line to rear brakes had broken. I still had front brakes buy my 5,000 lb Roadmaster needed all the help it could get.

It was fortunate that the broke when it did because two nights later I was driving a car load of Scouts 150 miles for a camp out.

 

[Killer Bee]

speaking of tubing, not a lot of pictures from those days but here's a couple scans from Polaroids and prints

like any trade, you make mistakes and hopefully learn from them, I've certainly had my share. tube bending and hose assembly is required skillset for my trade in heavy junk

6,000 psi Denison Gold Cup custom HPOR/TL I put together for a customer, might have been one of the jurassic park ride units for universal.

this vpak was a custom prototype I put together to test run a motion base for a Nascar ride simulator prior to production order

don't recall what associated tubing was involved with these, but that's a priority flow pump for a Zamboni steering and fan motor.

 

[Mobuck]

I've had my share of blown brake lines. The first I remember was on the bulk fuel delivery truck I drove for a while. That one was an eye opener for sure--as the song goes: "Kind of like stepping on a plum-the pedal went all the way to the floor and just stayed there". Lost ALL braking and drove 10-12 miles back to the plant using the hand parking brake if I had to actually stop-mostly rolled through the backroad stop signs and kept going. Boss just shrugged and said "fix it before you go home" we've got a lot of deliveries tomorrow.
Blew a rear brake line while pulling a travel trailer 75 miles from home. That one wasn't too bad since I still had front brakes on the pickup and trailer brakes.

 

[TheTexasRAT]

I suppose these problems show up in any part of the country where snow/slush/salt is a fact of life but dang it's frustrating to deal with.
GA's pickup suffered a rear brake line blow-out last Friday. I can't say for sure but most likely due to corrosion of the steel line (not the first time or first vehicle this has happened). She left her trailer at a sort of secure place and drove home with only front brakes. I checked it out yesterday and just as I expected the line had popped in a totally unreachable spot behind the gas tank. I'm pretty sure I can't remove the bed w/o twisting off some bolts or the welded in nuts on the bottom of the bed. Only reasonable fix is cut out 5-6' of brake line and bypass the damaged area.
I can't figure why vehicle makers hide lines/wiring/??? in places that can't be accessed later??? Since brake lines are a creature all their own dimensions, I'll have to cut out a short section to take along for sizing.

As mentioned by GasGussler one should rerun the whole section of line, but not only because unions are not a good idea for brake lines but also because the whole section of pipe is most like in just as bad of a condition.

 

[Jim Walsh]

While the subject is brake lines, how many adhere to the recommended maintenance schedules to drain and replace their brake fluid?

 

[Killer Bee]

I do mine to some degree depending on the vehicle, brake fluid is hygroscopic, attracts water.

flush recommended around 5yrs or less for most modern makes depending on type of system, climate, duty, etc.

also why opened containers should be used promptly and not stored long term prior to use.

 

[Jeepnik]

Okay, I won't disagree that water isn't good in brake systems. On the other hand, should you be in the middle of nowhere and have to do an emergency brake line repair what do you use. Well old offroaders use water. Like brake fluid, water is noncompressible. It will make a gerat temporary / emergency fluid.

A few years ago I came across a Blaser out in the desert. It may have said it was 4 wheel drive, but what it should have said was one wheel drive, maybe, as limited slip in the rear and an open in the front. In other words it shouldn't have been there. The couple had hit something and destroyed on of the rear brake line. They had no idea what to do.

On the spot I showed them how to crimp the broken line, refill the master cylinder with water and bleed the remaining rear brake. The dual reservoirs were a great invention. I followed them out.

 

[Mobuck]

In real life, I don't remember EVER 'changing brake fluid' nor do I recall having this done by a repair shop/dealer service. On occasion, I've spilled enough to call it a 'flush and replace'' but that wasn't the intention.
While replacing the rusted-out line, I discovered this wasn't the first replacement. Told Grouch Attack she'd better decide what her replacement budget was and plan her investments to allow a withdrawal next spring (or maybe next month depending on how well the 'for sale' ad works).

 

[blume357]

Distroyed the master cylinder in. my fathers 1960's Ford pickup ... Doing due diligence before heading into town I check it and the brake fluid was low and so I went over on the shelf in the garage and got a can of brake fluid and filled it up... drove into town and went to slow down to turn into my friend's drive way and no brakes... went across his yard and the neighbors before I could get it in low gear and stop it with the emergency brake.... seems my father had used that brake fluid can to hold gasoline for cleaning things with.

 

[GasGuzzler]

Brake fluid should be changed every five years. Won't help lines from rusting outside in but will help the other way around.

 

[RC44Mag]

Every time I do a brake job I get a couple extra bottles of fluid and push out as much of the old as I can. On the Vette I installed Stop Tech stainless lines for some added security.

 

[gjgalligan]

brake fluid is hygroscopic, attracts water.

How does water get INTO a closed system?

 

[GasGuzzler]

System isn't truly closed.

 

[Watertender]

How does water get INTO a closed system?

I always wondered when a mechanic dips his greasy finger in the master cylinder reservoir to check the brake fluid.
My biggest brake adventure was a blown master cylinder on an overloaded 1948 International Harvester dump truck. I was hauling gravel from a farm gravel pit to a contractor who was using it. I stepped on the brake to slow for a turn and the pedal hit the floorboard. I drove past my turn and was able to slow down using my gears. Good thing I didn't have to stop quickly because I was loaded fully and I had at least 8 or 9 tons on board. I got the load delivered and had to find a new master cylinder. Finding parts for a 30 plus year old truck was an adventure especially in the pre computer days...

 

[Randyzzz]

NiCopp line for the win. It’s extremely easy to work with and flares beautifully. I built a complete brake hardline system with it for my Scrambler project. I also have Mastercool hydraulic double flaring tool. Almost $350 for the tool, worth every penny.

 

[Killer Bee]

now we're talkin' - nice work Randy, those lines look great!!!

I'm transitioning into retirement and will be starting some restoration work on my old truck fleet soon, hope I can run my lines anywhere close to that cleanly.

btw, I'll second the endorsement for mastercool tools, we bought a lot of their a/c hose crimping tools and the shops loved them!

 

[Randyzzz]

now we're talkin' - nice work Randy, those lines look great!!!

I'm transitioning into retirement and will be starting some restoration work on my old truck fleet soon, hope I can run my lines anywhere close to that cleanly.

btw, I'll second the endorsement for mastercool tools, we bought a lot of their a/c hose crimping tools and the shops loved them!

I bought that tool just for that build, and it’s sat in my tool box ever since. I’d be interested in selling it if you think you need it. I have an additional set of AN dies too… $250 and I’ll pay for the ride-

 

[MaxMan]

Many years ago i had to redo the brake lines on a Chevy Caprice ( it was a New York car). The end result was a very unique looking routing of metal tubing. Brought back memory of cutting the tubing about 2 inches too short, back to the auto part store for a peice of tubing. This is the stiff tubing and one of the little hand tubing benders.