SP101: Hogue Monogrip Snapping

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JackAsinus

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So my snub nosed revolver hand technique is to grip the revolver as tightly as I can to where my hand almost starts to shake and then back off slightly.

This method helps me tame some of the recoil. My issue is that I've snapped 3 of the rubber Hogue Monogrips, or at least the white plastic molding on the inside. This makes the grip unusable.

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Anyone else have this issue? I've been forced to move to the nylon version in the meantime.

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contender

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Sounds like too much grip pressure.

All too often,, people try & "fight to control" recoil,, instead of allowing the recoil to happen & work with it. Recoil is simple physics. Fighting it can cause issues. And not just breaking grip pieces.
 

JackAsinus

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This is where I picked up the technique.

https://youtu.be/h9Ov9ANaQBI

It has helped in both felt recoil and in sight picture control. Other than snapping this specific grip I haven't had an issue.

Is there a different method I should explore?
 

gunman42782

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Dude, if you are breaking a pair of Hogue grips, you are for a certain gripping the gun too tight!
 

contender

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Youboob isn't always the best instructor. I often ask; "What quantifies the poster as an expert & what credentials do they have?" Now,, I didn't open the youboob link,, but let me offer this.

The SP-101 is a "mild" caliber when compared to many other handguns. Yes,, it's more than some,, but think outside the box a little. Think of handling a .454 Casull revolver,, and trying to "control" the recoil by a death grip like you mentioned. You will experience pain. Physics can & will let you know quickly that the super hard, trying to control the recoil type of grip is NOT feasible.
Another thought.
By applying super hard gripping with your dominant hand, you lose some control over the trigger. It can & will affect accuracy. In USPSA competition & other such activities,, the grip pressure is often discussed in percentages. In general,, you should apply about 30%-40% of your grip pressure with the dominant hand,, and 60%-70% of the rest of the gripping pressure with your off hand. The dominant hand then can work the trigger smoothly w/o the undue stress of tense & strained muscles.

Lots of things affect the physics of recoil.
The caliber.
The weight of the firearm.
The power of the load.
One handed vs two handed gripping.
How much pressure is applied to the firearm.

A .22 LR handgun, weighing 3-4 lbs, being held with 2 hands, will not have as much felt recoil as say a .44 magnum, weighing 3-4 lbs, and shooting a Buffalo Bore bear stomping load, shot with a one handed hold. Simple physics. And yes,, some people can & do shoot such heavy recoiling handguns one handed.
But the human body can't stop the physics,, and as such, it's HOW you adapt to trying to control the physics PROPERLY to avoid pain or issues. And I can assure you,, using excessive gripping trying to stop the recoil, (physics) is NOT how it's done.

Maybe you can find an instructor who is versed in proper heavy caliber handgunning to assist you in learning a proper gripping technique. Youboob isn't always the best.
 

JackAsinus

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The youtube link is of Grant Cunningham, I have 3 of his books on revolver form and technique.

He died about 5 years ago but taught revolver technique for decades.

Valid, I'll see if I can find someone else and see if that helps.

I'm likely consigned to not using the Hogue rubber grips though and sticking to the nylon ones.

The only real complaints are that the nylon isn't as giving and it can be slick if my hands are wet.
 

JackAsinus

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On a side note, i used to have a Ruger Redhawk Alaskan in .454 Casull and it required some work.

The grip that worked was super tight in the hand and wrist but the flex came from the elbow and shoulder to work as a shock absorber.

I'm not really concerned about the recoil I get from my technique as i don't find it off putting, more the question of does anyone else struggle with breaking the Hogue rubber grips?
 
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By having a deathgrip on the revolver, you're forcing the plastic/nylon inside the grip to absorb almost all the recoil energy. It's only going to take so much.

I prefer to lighten up on the grip, just about as much as I need to keep the grip in place in my hand, and let the gun do what it's going to do under recoil. Much less fatigue on my joints and muscles, and I shoot much better groups for longer periods.
 

JackAsinus

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The interesting thing is that the grip doesn't break when I'm pulling the trigger, it breaks when a apply pressure before the shot.
 
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Without experiencing it directly, I would hazard a guess that it actually broke on the previous shot (I could be completely wrong though).

I do have a fair amount of the Hogue grips, as they're on almost all of my revolvers. The oldest is probably over 20 years old now, and the newest is about 3 years old. I have not cracked one yet, even with the 454 Casull and 480 Ruger. I do have a SP101 (Wiley Clapp edition) with your exact grip (about 8 years old now) and it's doing OK, even with hot 125 grain 357 loads.

Were all three bought from the same place/timeframe? I wonder if maybe there was a bad run of them. Did you ever bring this up with Hogue CS?
 

JackAsinus

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All three were bought about the same year from my local retailer.

I've never clued that in and you may be on to something.

One snapped when I squeezed it before placing it in the gun.

The next snapped when I placed it on the gun but before I fired it. I was just squeezing it tightly.

The next was after a couple trips to the range.

This happened over about an 8 month period but were all purchased from the same store but at different times.
 

JackAsinus

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He actually reinforced the technique that I'm talking about. He says grip it as tightly as you can right before it starts to shake.

He states it right after the 7 min mark. Thanks for validation of my technique by the best of the best.
 

hittman

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Felt or perceived recoil and a shooters reaction to it will be different for each individual.
What works well for some, wont for others.

Even "experts" are simply proclaiming their personal preference.
 

jban357

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One thing you have to consider. When they say to "grip it tight so that your hand shakes, then back off a little." Who are they referring to, a little old lady that can't lift 10 lbs, or some guy that bench-presses 250 lbs, and is always at the gym. Take a good firm grip and be consistent. Grip does make a difference, but it has to be consistent.
 

contender

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I finally got time to watch the video link of Jerry. I had seen it before. And yes,, at around the 7 minute mark, he does mention a hard, heavy gripping method. However,, he's ALSO talking about competition, speed shooting, and using competition loads. His 625 he's using is set-up for his hands, using his competition ammo, (which makes major power factor,, but not by much,) and is mild ammo when compared to factory ammo.
For the folks not familiar with USPSA major or minor Power Factor,, it's as follows;
Bullet weight, multiplied by velocity, then divided by 1000. Example; .45 acp 230 grn bullet with a velocity of 725 fps will give a number of 166750. Divide that by 1000 & you get a PF of 166.75. You are required to get a minimum of 165 PF to be called major.
As you can see,, that load is below normal factory ammo for most .45 acp ammo.

And with such light loads,, it is much easier to control recoil than with heavier ammo or calibers.

Even later in the video,, Jerry mentions different gripping AND how recoil should be "straight up," so that it can come right back down for the follow-up shot(s). When he's mentioning shooting a J frame he discusses some of this. He also uses a different grip when shooting a 460 or a 500 S&W.

Now,, all that aside,, I've had the pleasure of Jerry's company several times. I met him, Kay, (his wife,) and their young daughter long ago. Long before Lena decided to get into shooting. I've been his RO at USPSA matches,, as well as having discussed many topics. For instance,, many people think his guns have lighter springs in the actions,, but not true normally. In fact,, often having heavier springs. But the action has been very well tuned. Jerry also has what I call "shorter & thicker" hands & fingers. My fingers are longer than his,, but his fingers are much thicker. And his hands carry the callouses of a hard working person. His arms are shorter,, but his arm muscles are solid.

In the video,, he discusses the nerve in the thumb area,, and how it can & will affect shooting. He mentions how his nerve is already dead due to his decades of shooting. It's the part about "bowlers thumb," and how a heavy recoiling handgun can & will let you know something isn't quite right. Fighting recoil can also affect that same nerve,,, causing damage.

So, yes,,in a small part of his video,, he does talk about hard gripping. But take the WHOLE story & study it. Watch him shoot heavy guns,, and see the recoil. he works WITH the physics of recoil,, and knows you can't fight it physically. Yes,, he can death grip a revolver,, shooting mild ammo, for speed,, with his hands & arm strength. But he also can't physically death grip a heavy recoiling handgun & keep it from recoiling.

Just ask him,, as I have done.

Kinda like the comment above; The differences between the little old lady vs a guy who bench presses 250 with ease. Hand each one a .22 & the little old lady will feel more recoil than the guy, but do just fine. But hand them each the .500 S&W the guy will feel the recoil, while the little old lady will likely not be able to even hang onto the gun.

My point is that a death grip is not the best method,, for most shooting. Yes,, if you are shooting for world class speed, in a competition, using mild ammo, then, yes,, it can work. Shooting a short barrelled, compact .357 magnum, with full power factory ammo,, not so much. Even Jerry says; "If you have all the time in the world,, you can do,,,!" In his case,, time was a big factor.
 
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