Ruger Mark III Hunter goes full auto.

[AzShooter1]

Oh well, after running my Mark III Hunter for a few thousand rounds today it decided to have a little problem while shooting our Monthly Steel Challenge Match.

After a very good start, I got to the second stage and the gun went Full Auto. I had to retire it from the match. It was considered unsafe by the Range Master.

Since it was pure stock I figure part of the action must have worn out. I ordered a Volquartsen Trigger Kit and will replace everything once it shows up.

Here is my Hunter.

 

[hittman]

A good cleaning would probably fix it, no aftermarket parts needed.

 

[JohnFLand]

Unless, in pursuit of a competitive advantage, some of the inner works have been messed with.

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

A good cleaning would probably fix it, no aftermarket parts needed.

Yes, I'd have to agree. After a "few" thousand rounds your sear to hammer notch probably has some gunk buildup and fails to engage. I hardly think that after only a few thousand rounds the sear or hammer notch could be worn out.

 

[mohavesam]

I'd like to know if the cleaning solved the problem.

On the dark side, if you have a gun that goes burp, you have knowledge of a problem. In this case it is a felony worthy of losing your civil rights forever. I'd NOT work on that gun aside from light cleaning - and I'd NOT disassemble it myself. send it back to ruger promptly. Intentional or not, it is a big issue with the feds.

I had a SA go full-auto years ago and the Rangemaster told me in no uncertain terms I now possessed a felony machine. He advised I was committing a crime until the moment I delivered it to a qualified 'smith.

You don't state a location, but if you're in Arizona, drive it to Prescott and drop it at the guard shack at the factory for repair. They will take it very seriously indeed.

 

[Kanook]

I'd like to know if the cleaning solved the problem.

On the dark side, if you have a gun that goes burp, you have knowledge of a problem. In this case it is a felony worthy of losing your civil rights forever. I'd NOT work on that gun aside from light cleaning - and I'd NOT disassemble it myself. send it back to ruger promptly. Intentional or not, it is a big issue with the feds. Knowing you have a gun that goes full auto and not having it fixed is the problem. If it runs and the shooter continued to keep doing it, that's trouble. Taking it home and cleaning it to see if it was only dirty and needed to be cleaned is not a Felony.

I had a SA go full-auto years ago and the Rangemaster told me in no uncertain terms I now possessed a felony machine. He advised I was committing a crime until the moment I delivered it to a qualified 'smith. Your Rangemaster has no clue

You don't state a location, but if you're in Arizona, drive it to Prescott and drop it at the guard shack at the factory for repair. They will take it very seriously indeed.

We have had a handful of "unintentional full auto's" come thru the shop I worked at that needed a good cleaning or a couple parts replaced. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[mohavesam]

I can appreciate your response, but not going to argue.
Maybe read the NFA definition of a machine gun, and see if there is an exception for mechanical malfunction, unintentional configuration, or "I didn't know".
Send it to ruger?

 

[Jeepnik]

Had my MKI do that years ago. Busted spring. Ruger sent one free.

 

[AzShooter1]

Problem was easy, a broken sear. Today I installed a Volquartsen Accurizing Kit with a new sear and problem is solved. Trigger pull is now 1 lb and 14 oz as measured with my Lyman Digital Scale with no take-up and over travel.

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

I'd like to know if the cleaning solved the problem.

On the dark side, if you have a gun that goes burp, you have knowledge of a problem. In this case it is a felony worthy of losing your civil rights forever. I'd NOT work on that gun aside from light cleaning - and I'd NOT disassemble it myself. send it back to ruger promptly. Intentional or not, it is a big issue with the feds. Knowing you have a gun that goes full auto and not having it fixed is the problem. If it runs and the shooter continued to keep doing it, that's trouble. Taking it home and cleaning it to see if it was only dirty and needed to be cleaned is not a Felony.

I had a SA go full-auto years ago and the Rangemaster told me in no uncertain terms I now possessed a felony machine. He advised I was committing a crime until the moment I delivered it to a qualified 'smith. Your Rangemaster has no clue

You don't state a location, but if you're in Arizona, drive it to Prescott and drop it at the guard shack at the factory for repair. They will take it very seriously indeed.

We have had a handful of "unintentional full auto's" come thru the shop I worked at that needed a good cleaning or a couple parts replaced. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree wholeheartedly! Normally, they don't actually go "FULL AUTO", but more likely a couple of rounds and then jam. You're absolutely correct, there's no felony involved with taking a malfunctioning firearm home to clean it after an incident as was expressed. Being a felony is a foolish "rumor" to spread around. Unless that firearm was "purposely" altered to mechanically go full auto, no foul has been committed. Sounds to me like another case of where an incompetent "range officer" exalted himself to also be an expert on what the BATF-E requires.

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

Problem was easy, a broken sear. Today I installed a Volquartsen Accurizing Kit with a new sear and problem is solved. Trigger pull is now 1 lb and 14 oz as measured with my Lyman Digital Scale with no take-up and over travel.

That sear sure looks funky! Almost looks like it was burned. Still though, it looks like there would still be enough sear to hammer notch engagement involved.

 

[mohavesam]

DA, I stated the fact. Any recommendation otherwise would be liability, etc. and we cannot condone any sort of illegal potential these days. YMMV.
I always recommend the factory here for repairs, they would have gone through it 100% and in all probability brought "extra" new part into the mix, getting essentially a spec-new gun back (and a box with his name on the label!). 8)
Glad it worked out, just a simple broken Ruger. It won't be the last!

 

[Kanook]

DA, I stated the fact. Any recommendation otherwise would be liability, etc. and we cannot condone any sort of illegal potential these days. YMMV.
I always recommend the factory here for repairs, they would have gone through it 100% and in all probability brought "extra" new part into the mix, getting essentially a spec-new gun back (and a box with his name on the label!). 8)
Glad it worked out, just a simple broken Ruger. It won't be the last!

All it ever was was a malfunctioning pistol, nothing more, nothing less. To think otherwise is silly.

 

[blume357]

Actually, you can argue that all it was was a malfunction all the way to jail if the 'wrong' LEO is at the range when the gun does this and then argue some more all the way through the court system while your lawyer pays for his new boat......

it has happened before......

Even though the suggestions for cleaning or replacing a part are probably the best solution, I can't fault mohavesam's recommendation to send it back to Ruger. I've seen the same thing he suggested happen... you get a custom gun back.

 

[David Bradshaw]

AzShooter1.... while the photo isn’t clear, it appears a corner broke off your sear, a material failure. Does the safety or magazine disconnector contact the sear where the failure occurred? Is the sear investment cast or powdered metal?

Mark I and II pistols, which predate use of MIM (metal injection molding), have an incredible track record for durability.

Keep the broken sear for future reference.
David Bradshaw

 

[AzShooter1]

It looks like powdered metal that failed. The safety contacts the other side but this side is interfered with by the disconnector. I'm glad I was only shooting a .22.

 

[David Bradshaw]

AzShooter1.... do you know how many rounds were in the magazine? Did the go full auto to lockback? Or, did the pistol double? The broken chip of sear may have prevented the sear from engaging the hammer as the bolt slammed forward.

Installation of the Volquartsen kit should clean & lighten trigger pull.
David Bradshaw

 

[AzShooter1]

There were 10 rounds in the magazine but only three went full auto. After that the gun would not cycle, the trigger would not reset.

 

[smith1961]

Very interesting and very rare mechanical malfunction............Thanks for sharing the incident.
I'm a Federal LEO with 24+ experience, had my FFL for 15 years, and hold current instructor state certifications for Police, Massachusetts civilians, and LEOSA.
FELONY? Not in my world.
Explain the criminal elements and specific statute..................
:shock:

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

AzShooter1.... while the photo isn’t clear, it appears a corner broke off your sear, a material failure. Does the safety or magazine disconnector contact the sear where the failure occurred? Is the sear investment cast or powdered metal?

Mark I and II pistols, which predate use of MIM (metal injection molding), have an incredible track record for durability.

Keep the broken sear for future reference.
David Bradshaw

That's an interesting point you bring up. I've worked with, and on, a whole lot of Ruger Mark pistols over the years, but have actually never found one to have a "powder metal" sear. So, that is probably why it looks so dark. I do remember that the Colt Trooper revolvers used a "sintered metal" hammer, and some outfits have even made gears using that process. Would be interesting to read from other Ruger Mark owners to see if any others have found a dark sear like that one.

 

[Carry_Up]

Thanks AZShooter1 for your interesting post and the photo of your cracked sear. This story is pretty instructive in that some failures actually can produce dangerous results. Secondly, the cause of the problem was found easily by observing the condition of the parts. Good going - have a close look before assuming anything.

I find it interesting that whenever someone experiences a malfunction, whatever the description, someone is there suggesting that a "good cleaning" will bring everything back to life. I can't for the life of me imagine a full auto condition being created by any amount of dirt and residue inside the gun. But anything is possible, right?

Finally, there is the urban myth about the evils of injection molding. Machined metal parts never break, and injection molded parts break all the time! That is just silly. Occasionally there might be a void in a casting that causes the part to be weak. Once in a while you see an internal flaw in a machined part, causing the part to be weak (as in AZShooter's case). Injection molded parts do not ruin the reliability of a firearm. The relative hardness of the injection parts can be specified according to their function in the gun, just like their machined counterparts. My personal observations, anyway.

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

Thanks AZShooter1 for your interesting post and the photo of your cracked sear. This story is pretty instructive in that some failures actually can produce dangerous results. Secondly, the cause of the problem was found easily by observing the condition of the parts. Good going - have a close look before assuming anything.

I find it interesting that whenever someone experiences a malfunction, whatever the description, someone is there suggesting that a "good cleaning" will bring everything back to life. I can't for the life of me imagine a full auto condition being created by any amount of dirt and residue inside the gun. But anything is possible, right?

Finally, there is the urban myth about the evils of injection molding. Machined metal parts never break, and injection molded parts break all the time! That is just silly. Occasionally there might be a void in a casting that causes the part to be weak. Once in a while you see an internal flaw in a machined part, causing the part to be weak (as in AZShooter's case). Injection molded parts do not ruin the reliability of a firearm. The relative hardness of the injection parts can be specified according to their function in the gun, just like their machined counterparts. My personal observations, anyway.

Well, maybe NOT all the time, but they do break much more often than machined parts do. I have seen two Colt Trooper III hammers have the hammer spur break off and those are definitely "sintered" metal.

 

[Kanook]

I find it interesting that whenever someone experiences a malfunction, whatever the description, someone is there suggesting that a "good cleaning" will bring everything back to life. I can't for the life of me imagine a full auto condition being created by any amount of dirt and residue inside the gun.

I've seen a couple where the floating firing pin didn't float because of being dirty and caused the SKS to run like a champ.

Sometimes the suggestion of a good cleaning will turn up a broken part.