Ruger 1911

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piratedude

Single-Sixer
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Messages
105
Mike J":3l6v9vtl said:
You saying the SR-9 is the Corvair of the firearms world Snake?
I hope Ruger does well with it. It would be good if they came out with a quality 1911 that is Made in USA. Since unless I'm mistaken the only one actually made here anymore is Colt (I'm not sure about that).

1) Colt: http://www.coltsmfg.com/
2) Kimber: http://www.kimberamerica.com/
3) Smith and Wesson: http://www.smith-wesson.com
4) Para Ordnance: http://www.paraord.com/new/product.php
(And yes Para's are now made in South Carolina instead of Canada)
5) Wilson Combat: http://www.wilsoncombat.com/
6) Dan Wesson: http://cz-usa.com/about-dan-wesson/
7) Les Baer: http://www.lesbaer.com/
8) Olympic Arms: http://www.olyarms.com/
9) Auto-Ordnance: http://www.auto-ordnance.com/PA-1AO_pkz.html
10) STI: http://www.stiguns.com/
11) Rock River Arms (custom 1911s): http://www.rockriverarms.com/
12) US Firearms: http://www.usfirearms.com/
13) Ed Brown: http://www.edbrown.com/
14) Springfield Armory: http://www.springfield-armory.com/
Ok not all Springfiend Armory guns are made in the USA, but some are.
15) Fusion Firearms, http://www.fusionfirearms.com/

There are also about a dozen or more small custom chops that make high quality, albeit expensive, 1911s.

This is not a complete list of all US 1911 manufacturers, but it is certainly a large enough list to question the need for Ruger to enter this business model. And of course there are also foreign manufacturers such as Taurus.
 

tdyoung58

Bearcat
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81
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Sparks, NV
That would be nice, but, isn't the 1911 market kinda flooded to begin with. Between Springfield, Taurus, RIA, CD, Para, Kimber and STI . . . all making guns between $500-1000. Every gun shop around here has 3-4 used ones never mind the new. I picked up a Dan Wesson for less than $800 last week.

I mean even the SR556 could be home built for $800 cheaper than what the Ruger one sells for. A basic AR can be built for less than $800 and a gas piston conversion kit for less than $400.
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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Quarterbore":308sgfmh said:
Not sure how it coukd be added to a 1911 but that feature alone would not be a deal breaker for me.

It sure would be a deal breaker for me !!! Anything added that's not 1911 mil spec and it won't be in my safe. Just no reason to have a 'Rugerized and lawyerized and Kaliforniaized' 1911. No reason at all .... and I think the vast majority of 1911 fans would feel the same way. Most 1911 folks (at least the ones I know) don't have much use for Ruger autos anyway, so if a Ruger 1911 doesn't virtually knock people's socks off, it won't sell to that group of people.

I still hope it happens, and that it surprises the heck out of everybody ... it would be great to see Ruger hit the ball out of the park on the first try with a basic, above average in accuracy, inexpensive 1911. If it doesn't meet those criteria, it'll just be ho ... hum ... another 1911.

REV
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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welder":3m27ibia said:
I believe, if you pick up a SA you'll be pleased with it

Just bought this one .... right here on the forum.

Used like new condition Springfield Armory GI Milspec version 1911 with case, papers, one mag, and holster from factory. This gun has been fired but looks new, would make a great base gun for those of you who want to build the 1911 of your dreams.

REV
 

welder

Buckeye
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Congrats REV. I'm glad you found one. I was at my LGS last Tuesday and was told they sell as soon as they get them in. I put my name in the hat for one and was promised a call. I believe the SA is probably the best value going and I understand their service is second to none. How about a pic if you can, that 'd be nice.
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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Pics coming Welder ... should have gun by mid week. There used to be some nice pics in the ad but the seller seems to have deleted them.

REV
 

BlkHawk73

Hunter
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4,459
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Maine
snakespit":3syhtr19 said:
we will see. Ruger has really been surpriseing me lately with their new products. SR556, SR22, LCP,

why not An SR1911?

Why? Because there's simply WAY too many of them already out there. rather than rehash the same old thing (again) why not bring a new model design to the market? Next thing, there'll be Mossburg 1911's, followed by Glock 1911's, followed by Leupold 1911's, followed by Hornady 1911's followed by Hyundai 1911's...

In the immortal words of Hawkeye Pierce..."we want something else, we want something else, we want something else, we want something else, we want something else, we want something else, we want something else...
 

BlkHawk73

Hunter
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revhigh":4ffu5hpn said:
If they do it my way it will be a success.

So sure of that, put the $$$ up and bring to market yourself. After all it'll be a success. :wink:
 

Magnumite

Bearcat
Joined
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12
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Belcamp, Maryland
I like Ruger and 1911's. As I see it, the 1911 market has the bottom milspec and entry level fit guns (about $400) and then the custom end guns ($1800-2500). The guns in between generally fill in where the customer can a.) afford and b.) knows what they want. Those factors in that order.

There is a market for a better 1911 than what one gets in a standard milspec. I don't see any sense in building a GI based gun unless you are after the customizers' market. Sights are too small for efficient use, grip safety configuration is less than optimal. If you are in that ball park, the fit will be less than appealing. Why build that? Besides, all makers have gone to the more efficient modern format.

The next step up would be the Spartan class gun. Better fit and features, aesthetically pleasing. Best buy out there in a 1911 if you are just getting into 1911's. The key there, as in Toyota, etc is cheaper foreign labor. STI specs those guns and apparently their system works. The SA basic Loadeds and Kimbers Classics fill this niche, along with other makers comparable makes.

Ruger has another tier to work in and that would be the $800 to $1000 gun IF they can step up the fit and finish, both internal and out. They won't get there with all machined parts because that would be operation and labor intensive. Some MIM would have to be used and there's nothing wrong with good MIM in the right places, so lets not debate that proven point.

SIG was making the GSR in this class, went to their own parts manufacture and process and are now producing pistols which are a little loose. Colt can't produce anything mainstream without things like ill fitted and ill shaped grip safeties, tighter fitted parts or the union labor drives up the price. The SA Loaded series isn't exactly a match fit firearm. If you get even close to match fit and quality, you are popping $1400 or more with a ton of MIM in it, which loses appeal to many looking into upper end guns.

I see Ruger working, as in the LCR, in manufacture fitting approach rather than hand fitting. If they can do this with a 1911 and offer a well fitted, modern format, trigger using the Series 80 safety, nice appealing parkerizing, though not yuppie package, they would do well in the market. They already manufacture the castings for Caspian Arms, so they'd just have to work on the machining and building aspect of the gun.

The 1911 market is very competitive. The custom guns of Baer, Brown, Wilson, Nighthawk are in a class of their own. Ruger shouldn't even think about that at first. Kimber's different models are generally different cosmetics on the same guns - material use aside - yawn - no need to pursue that train of thought. They need to build a 1911 like they build all their guns...to use, durable, but with focus on fit, performance and a good trigger. Leave the pretty stuff to the customizers.
 

welder

Buckeye
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revhigh said:
Pics coming Welder ... should have gun by mid week. There used to be some nice pics in the ad but the seller seems to have deleted them.


How bout it REV, got the SA in hand yet?
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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BlkHawk73":2ejvaop5 said:
why not bring a new model design to the market?

I know you watch the forum BH, so you know that Ruger isn't very good at bringing new model designs to the market. If you remember the P345, the LCP, and the SR9. All pretty much new release disasters ... The jury is still out on the LCR, but there seems to be more reports of top strap flame cutting lately, here and on other forums. The SR556 ???? A two thousand dollar gun in an $800 current AR market ??? The SR22 ? A phony gussied up 10-22 with an already existing (in the marketplace)tactical stock bolted on for $500, when S&W and Colt BOTH have much more authentic AR dedicated 22's for about the same price ? Yup, we definitely need ANOTHER new design from Ruger ...

REV
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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welder":3tzs8z9g said:
How bout it REV, got the SA in hand yet?

Here ya go !!! Forgive how dirty it is ... 400 rounds in a weekend will do that LOL :D

Started with a base GI Springfield Armory 1911. THen ...

* Throated and polished the chamber
* Polished the feed ramp
* Deburred the entire frame and slide internals
* Installed Match high speed adjustable long trigger
* Complete trigger job - 3.0-3.5 pounds and breaks like a glass toothpick (range use only)
* Installed flared Mag well and flat mainspring housing (original was arched)
* Installed MilSpec crossed cannon grips
* Installed mag pad on Springfield mag
* Installed full length guide rod
* Still need to install Novak match front and rear sights

The result ...

IMG_0003-2.jpg

IMG_0004-2.jpg

IMG_0005-2.jpg


Not too bad for the original GI WWII sights. Total invested was right at $600 (including the gun). Gunsmithing was only $79 + parts. The gunsmith, Chuck Lutz, who did the work, worked at Kimber for 30 years and was responsible for setting up one of their production lines. Excellent, fast, and inexpensive.

It's a very, very, sweet shooter. Easily as good as my Colts. I REALLY like the Springfield Armory offerings. My next one will be a higher end stainless gun. Maybe a Trophy Match. As handsome as this one is, I'm not a real fan of olive drab guns ... but it'll do for my first build-up, and the price was right (thanks Justin, AKA medone1, for a smooth and quick transaction). I'll sure never get rid of it.

REV
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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Magnumite":3o4vdoxn said:
Ruger has another tier to work in and that would be the $800 to $1000 gun

They need to build a 1911 like they build all their guns ... durable, but with focus on fit, performance and a good trigger. Leave the pretty stuff to the customizers.

If Ruger prices their 1911 (if one ever comes to fruition) in the price range you mention ... it will be DOA. Why would someone buy a Ruger at the same price point as a Springfield higher end gun or a Colt Gold Cup ? That would be silly. They need to build a no-frills, above average in accuracy, 1911 with a great factory 4-5 pound, crisp, trigger, for $500 ... it can easily be done. See my pics above.

I agree with your last point, but at a $500 street price ... right between the RIA base GI, and the Taurus PT1911. I'd love to see it happen, but at $800-1000, I aint interested in the least.

REV
 

Jeff H

Bearcat
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I haven't read every post on this thread, but I have read a lot of it. I haven't seen anything from Ruger about possibly making a 1911 so I assume this is a big "what if" thread. If that is the case, I'll offer my what if: If ruger makes a 1911 and prices it like they did their AR, I won't be buying one, if they price it like their Blackhawk, I'll be the 1st in line.
 

welder

Buckeye
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Thanks REV. Man that is pretty and the list of (practical-reasonable) enhancements are great. A very good gun for 600 bucks. Wow. I have no doubt my next 1911 will be another SA full size. I have the Ultra compact and love it.

And REV, if that's dirty what do you call clean? :D Seriously though, that is really nice. Thank you for the pics. I,m sold!
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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welder":1zjp0xn6 said:
Man that is pretty and the list of (practical-reasonable) enhancements are great.

Thanks Welder, my goal was primarily to only do functional things to the gun. Most of the accesories I got 2nd hand from a gentleman at the shooting club where the gunsmith works. I got the mag well ($85), the full length guide rod ($30+), and 2 sets of the crossed cannon grips with stainless torx head screws ($35 per pair) for a total of $65.

The trigger job is spectacular. It's a crisp 3 pounds ... the best 1911 trigger I've ever experiencd. THe slide is silky smooth in it's action due to the deburring of the entire slide and frame. It's accuracy has also surpised me. At this point I'd say it's as good as my Colt Gold Cups. I simply love it.

I'm deciding now what sights I want to put on it, but even with the tiny GI sights, it's capable of being shot extremely accurately, as you can see from the target I posted. The other targets were almost as good, but that one I thought was exceptional. I ran about 400 rounds through it last weekend. I'm going to reload another 2000 rounds this week. My buddies at the range are VERY impressed with it, and can't believe it's as good as it is for only $600 invested.

Believe it or not, it is FILTHY .... 231 is a pretty dirty powder, but I've been using it so long and I like it's performance so much, that I just can't change it.

So far, so good, for my first 1911 build. :D

REV
 

welder

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I forgot to mention that I thought the accuracy was outstanding for a mil-spec gun. I have fired a 4 lb. trigger at the range, (not mine), and it was something you have to experience to appreciate. I think the 3lb. would be just about perfect at the range, and I don't think you can beat a 1911 with a good trigger. I've never had the pleasure of firing a Gold Cup, but understand it is in a class all it's own. I like W231 as well and it is dirty but cleans up easily I think. A real good balance in powder with all things considered and after trying, I guess 4 or 5, I settled on it as my "go to" powder in .45acp. I use a little AA#5 on occasion but not much. As far as the functional things, I think that is really the beauty of the 1911, easily done and the rewards are many. Probably all I would ever do to mine. Good luck with it and hopefully before too long I can post some pics of my yet to acquire SA Mil-Spec.
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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welder":2yhckq8n said:
As far as the functional things, I think that is really the beauty of the 1911, easily done and the rewards are many.

Right Welder, and THAT exact reason is why I say that Ruger CAN AND SHOULD produce a bare bones, but functionally excellent 1911. Put the manufacturing money into TWO THINGS ... the ACCURACY AND THE TRIGGER.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE TRIGGER, STUPID !!!!!

Ruger has never gotten that when it comes to their centerfire semiautos.

I had a friend that just got into shooting, and he kept asking me ... Why are you always talking about triggers being good or bad ?? I explained to him why, and on my advice he bought a SA 1911 that had been worked at Springfield Armory's custom shop ... it had about a 2.5 pound trigger. Once he got used to it, he now shoots a 1911 better than any other gun he has (Glock 17, FEG PA63, and Ruger GP100). He is now a died in the wool 1911 fan, and looking to buy more.

I've said before ... anyone that says they can't shoot a 1911 well, has never shot one with a good trigger, or doesn't know the basics of shooting ... sight picture, trigger control, breathing control. There simply is no other gun that is as easy to shoot well as a 1911 with a good trigger.

I expect some pics of that new MilSpec ,Welder :D, and if you want the number of my 'smith', just let me know ... $79 spent will make that MilSpec more like a Trophy Match. :D :D

REV
 
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