Ruger 1911
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Absolutely agreed, Snake. I don't carry a 1911 anymore, because I only carried in Condition One, and the liability is just too great. The Glock is the perfect compromise, and is even an advantage just because of the capacity. I now generally carry the P3AT ... I've graduated to small LOL 
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FYI, for those that may not know the 'Conditions of Readiness' as it applies to 1911's (not that there's anybody HERE that doesn't know) .... here's their descriptions.
Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.
Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.
Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.
REV
.FYI, for those that may not know the 'Conditions of Readiness' as it applies to 1911's (not that there's anybody HERE that doesn't know)
.... here's their descriptions.Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.
Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.
Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.
REV
welder
Buckeye
I expect some pics of that new MilSpec ,Welder , and if you want the number of my 'smith', just let me know ... $79 spent will make that MilSpec more like a Trophy Match.
REV[/quote]
Thanks REV, I'll take you up on the smith when I get mine. I will get some pictures too.
, and if you want the number of my 'smith', just let me know ... $79 spent will make that MilSpec more like a Trophy Match. REV[/quote]
Thanks REV, I'll take you up on the smith when I get mine. I will get some pictures too.
Magnumite
Bearcat
Rev Stated:
"Why would someone buy a Ruger at the same price point as a Springfield higher end gun or a Colt Gold Cup ? "
I mentioned $800 to $1000 as the target. You mention a price range beyond that when you mentioned the Gold Cups and higher end Springers.
That's not the same. I see no reason why it wouldn't work. Kimber set the 1911 market on its ear when the came out with their 1911's. At a dandy price, too. No one thought it would work. Then all the manufacturers were scambling to catch up. The Colt Gold Cup still hasn't caught up. There's an 1100 dollar gun. The Springfields are good but their real performers start at $1250 and go up from there. Both of those choices are 38 - 50% more then the lower end of my target price range.
There are guys looking for a pistol out of the Loaded SA range and not quite to the custom or manufacturer upper end range. They not only want to upgrade, they want performance. To be honest, there aren't any that promise really good match quality performance and triggers in that price range on an expected basis. Most of the guns in the $750 - 900 range are just gussied up lower end guns.
That $800 - 1000 tier is wide open to a really good, highly accurate preformer with a good trigger. They would have to really focus on performance. A good finish, nothing fancy, to keep the gun protected and presentable. S&W and STI Spartans are knocking on that door. Time for Ruger to open it.
You buy a $450 pistol, you'll get $450 performance. Your pistol is an exception, and you had it worked on by a professional to get it there. So now that pistol with its work is in the $600 range - probably greater. So you just increased the cost of your basic pistol into another range. You defeated your own argument.
I am curious what the Ruger 1911, if it shows up really is like.
For what it's worth, the SR223 is not in the same class as a gas impinged $900 AR nor is it a converted gas gun. It is built like a $900 gas gun. So that really isn't a valid comparison. What the impression is you feel you can get the same benefits from the $900 AR as you would from the $1800 Ruger black rifle. That's fine. But it shouldn't be used to invalidate the SR223.
"Why would someone buy a Ruger at the same price point as a Springfield higher end gun or a Colt Gold Cup ? "
I mentioned $800 to $1000 as the target. You mention a price range beyond that when you mentioned the Gold Cups and higher end Springers.
That's not the same. I see no reason why it wouldn't work. Kimber set the 1911 market on its ear when the came out with their 1911's. At a dandy price, too. No one thought it would work. Then all the manufacturers were scambling to catch up. The Colt Gold Cup still hasn't caught up. There's an 1100 dollar gun. The Springfields are good but their real performers start at $1250 and go up from there. Both of those choices are 38 - 50% more then the lower end of my target price range.
There are guys looking for a pistol out of the Loaded SA range and not quite to the custom or manufacturer upper end range. They not only want to upgrade, they want performance. To be honest, there aren't any that promise really good match quality performance and triggers in that price range on an expected basis. Most of the guns in the $750 - 900 range are just gussied up lower end guns.
That $800 - 1000 tier is wide open to a really good, highly accurate preformer with a good trigger. They would have to really focus on performance. A good finish, nothing fancy, to keep the gun protected and presentable. S&W and STI Spartans are knocking on that door. Time for Ruger to open it.
You buy a $450 pistol, you'll get $450 performance. Your pistol is an exception, and you had it worked on by a professional to get it there. So now that pistol with its work is in the $600 range - probably greater. So you just increased the cost of your basic pistol into another range. You defeated your own argument.
I am curious what the Ruger 1911, if it shows up really is like.
For what it's worth, the SR223 is not in the same class as a gas impinged $900 AR nor is it a converted gas gun. It is built like a $900 gas gun. So that really isn't a valid comparison. What the impression is you feel you can get the same benefits from the $900 AR as you would from the $1800 Ruger black rifle. That's fine. But it shouldn't be used to invalidate the SR223.
Magnumite":2uljla6j said:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod ... s_id/36031
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =147965751
Enough said ....
inisfree
Bearcat
I would like to see them also make a stock 1911 around the $500 mark. It would be nice it they would do what Glock does and make add on parts so that you can customize the trigger pull and such. The market is flooded with 1911s but if they do it right and market a base gun that Ruger fans can modify it will be very competitive and lets a person build up his dream gun on his own pace.
Magnumite
Bearcat
Rev, I was using new retail prices to maintain consistant comparisons. Market prices would yield even a better gun by Ruger....
Magnumite":1axee4s9 said:
I also thought it was interesting that you mentioned that the gun that pretty much started the accurized/upgraded/customized 1911 craze for consumers at retail, as compared to competition, hasn't 'caught up' ?
Saying that Colt is trying to 'catch up' in the 1911 market is kind of like saying that Toyota is trying to 'catch up' in the economy car market.
REV
Magnumite
Bearcat
Colt was always behind the curve in 1911 territory over past few decades. Springfield Armory, Kimber, a couple others improved the 1911 pattern into what is seen today while Colt rested on their laurels. They were 10 years behind when the brought out the Enhance Combat Govenment. It didn't work well, configuration wasn't very good. They were trying to keep up.
The Gold Cup is a good gun, but it uses a dinosaur less than efficient pattern grip safety and too much space between it and the frame. It fits in neither the Hardball class for leg matches nor is it optimal for softball shooting. For $1000 dollars that grip safety should be much better configured and fit. The trigger is still too big and heavy and in need of that additional spring. They never replaced the rear sight roll pin with the more durable solid piece and finally started going to a BoMar pattern adjustable sight to keep it intact. Slide to frame fit is okay, doesn't really need to be super tight for good accuracy, but it could be better. A couple of years ago, the Gunsite pistol was finally standardized with parts selections. For awhile no one knew exactly what grip safety would be on one nor how well fit it would be. That last line came directly from a Colt dealer.
Not really here to bash Colt, though it seems it. I like their guns, good steel and quality. Can't really argue the resale value, for sure. I really do feel there is a place in "that" Value range for a good gun, be it street or retail prices. The Value would be the same.
You present good arguments to your view on this. Understand what you perspective is. I just think that Value range I've chatted about could be filled by Ruger.
If Ruger does produce a 1911 and it isn't out the door for more than $1000 and is, indeed, built as a performer, I'd buy it.
The Gold Cup is a good gun, but it uses a dinosaur less than efficient pattern grip safety and too much space between it and the frame. It fits in neither the Hardball class for leg matches nor is it optimal for softball shooting. For $1000 dollars that grip safety should be much better configured and fit. The trigger is still too big and heavy and in need of that additional spring. They never replaced the rear sight roll pin with the more durable solid piece and finally started going to a BoMar pattern adjustable sight to keep it intact. Slide to frame fit is okay, doesn't really need to be super tight for good accuracy, but it could be better. A couple of years ago, the Gunsite pistol was finally standardized with parts selections. For awhile no one knew exactly what grip safety would be on one nor how well fit it would be. That last line came directly from a Colt dealer.
Not really here to bash Colt, though it seems it. I like their guns, good steel and quality. Can't really argue the resale value, for sure. I really do feel there is a place in "that" Value range for a good gun, be it street or retail prices. The Value would be the same.
You present good arguments to your view on this. Understand what you perspective is. I just think that Value range I've chatted about could be filled by Ruger.
If Ruger does produce a 1911 and it isn't out the door for more than $1000 and is, indeed, built as a performer, I'd buy it.
piratedude
Single-Sixer
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2008
- Messages
- 105
Magnumite":1qkcai01 said:
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. People who were going to buy a Colt Gold Cup are going to buy a cast steel Ruger?
I find that hard to believe.
I'm sure there are some people who will, but for the most part people who were going to buy Colts are going to buy Colts. That's not to suggest that people won't buy a Ruger 1911, but I don't think that people who were going to buy a Colt will. I don't believe that anymore than I believe that someone who was going to buy a Colt LE6920 or AR-15A2 would opt for an SR-556 in its place.
Good points piratedude. That's why I mentioned the $500 street price. At that point, Ruger would only be competing with RIA (easy) and Taurus (also easy). I can't imagine ANYONE buying a 'new' Ruger 1911 at $1000 when they could have a pretty much loaded Colt or Springfield for the same money. Why would anyone even consider doing that ? Unless, as I said before, you're such a Ruger fan that you'll buy anything just BECAUSE it says R-U-G-E-R on it.
Good discussion !! Pretty funny that we can spend 7 pages 'discussing' vaporware !!! January should be interesting.
REV
Good discussion !! Pretty funny that we can spend 7 pages 'discussing' vaporware !!!
January should be interesting.REV
Magnumite
Bearcat
Vaporware - now that's a new one.
No, I am not saying they'll run out and buy a Ruger 1911 just because it says Ruger. I cut my handgun teeth on Rugers and they are a large percentage of the population in my safe. But just because Ruger makes it doesn't mean I can't objectively assess the design.
Lots of product loyalty in this business. The Colt guys will buy a Gold Cup, the Springer guys will buy the Trophy Match, Gold Match for the Kimber dudes and so on. They stick to those brands because they are comfortable and confident with those brands. We all have those preferences.
When I am building a 1911, I definitely know exactly which parts I prefer. When I buy a factory 1911, I look at the features and reports on the pistol. I also look heavily on those individuals giving the reports or endorsements. That's why out of all the less expensive 1911's out there, the Spartan would get my nod as a first.
Say what you might, and we all know how Ruger can be, but no one here has seen their 1911 - if it indeed is being prototyped and tested. Maybe they'll do it right.
No, I am not saying they'll run out and buy a Ruger 1911 just because it says Ruger. I cut my handgun teeth on Rugers and they are a large percentage of the population in my safe. But just because Ruger makes it doesn't mean I can't objectively assess the design.
Lots of product loyalty in this business. The Colt guys will buy a Gold Cup, the Springer guys will buy the Trophy Match, Gold Match for the Kimber dudes and so on. They stick to those brands because they are comfortable and confident with those brands. We all have those preferences.
When I am building a 1911, I definitely know exactly which parts I prefer. When I buy a factory 1911, I look at the features and reports on the pistol. I also look heavily on those individuals giving the reports or endorsements. That's why out of all the less expensive 1911's out there, the Spartan would get my nod as a first.
Say what you might, and we all know how Ruger can be, but no one here has seen their 1911 - if it indeed is being prototyped and tested. Maybe they'll do it right.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens if Ruger's 1911 is a very basic gun. People are going to start swapping on aftermarket parts about two minutes after they become available. The fun will come when modded guns have to be returned to the factory for service, as Ruger is known to remove and replace all aftermarket parts with factory before returning them. Keep that factory stuff when you upgrade your Ruger 1911! :lol:
Luckily, it's a rare 1911 that ever has to go back to the mothership, although if any company can cause a recall to occur with a 1911, I'm sure Ruger will be able to accomplish that, most likely with their lawyerly add-ons, and Kaliforniaized 'safety' features. LOL.
REV
REV
On another forum recently, I know of two (a Springfield and a Para Ord) that had to go home in the same week. A 3-D friend of mine had to send back two Taurus 1911s before he gave up and moved on to another brand. It happens, and yes, Ruger is just the team to pull off a huge recall.revhigh":115pezc4 said:
TexasRugerMan
Bearcat
I just hope they build it. Then make it right for the money. I'd buy one.
Piratedude
I am new to the 1911 - I sold my Single Six "Three Screw" over 30 years ago. When I started to look into a 45 pistol, I realized that I really didn't know much about the market. I carried a 1911 in Viet Nam that rattled like the devil, but it always went bang. Didn't think that I wanted a 1911.
After a lot of research, I am going to get a 1911. The genius of the design is amazing. Simple, rugged and it works. You can completely dissasemble the pistol without any tools in its original GI specs.
remember, it is a fighting gun designed for work up close and personal. Also, it has the stopping power of the 45ACP. If it wasn't the standard, why would all of the US Special Ops carry/use the 1911? It is reliable, durable (I have washed one out in a stream and fired it while it was still dripping wet) and - trust me - deadly. The 9MM is used by the US because of catering to NATO and the US wanting a missle base in Italy. If you talk to any soldier that has been in close combat with a pistol, he wants a 45ACP.
Didn't mean to rant, but when it comes to lethality, the 9MM can't touch he 45.
Hawkeyesas
I am new to the 1911 - I sold my Single Six "Three Screw" over 30 years ago. When I started to look into a 45 pistol, I realized that I really didn't know much about the market. I carried a 1911 in Viet Nam that rattled like the devil, but it always went bang. Didn't think that I wanted a 1911.
After a lot of research, I am going to get a 1911. The genius of the design is amazing. Simple, rugged and it works. You can completely dissasemble the pistol without any tools in its original GI specs.
remember, it is a fighting gun designed for work up close and personal. Also, it has the stopping power of the 45ACP. If it wasn't the standard, why would all of the US Special Ops carry/use the 1911? It is reliable, durable (I have washed one out in a stream and fired it while it was still dripping wet) and - trust me - deadly. The 9MM is used by the US because of catering to NATO and the US wanting a missle base in Italy. If you talk to any soldier that has been in close combat with a pistol, he wants a 45ACP.
Didn't mean to rant, but when it comes to lethality, the 9MM can't touch he 45.
Hawkeyesas
