Research Shows Handguns Best Defense In Bear Attacks

[the_leper_colony]

FYI & FWIW:

Research Shows Handguns Best Defense in Bear Attacks

Handguns appear to be more effective at defending against bear attacks than long guns. Handguns are more often carried on the person and more likely to be used at close range.

www.ammoland.com

"...two factors, better availability and accessibility to handguns during bear encounters and the selection bias in favor of defenses against bears with handguns, are the reasons handguns appear to be more effective than long guns for defense against bears.

"If people carried handy, high-capacity long guns in tactical slings with loaded chambers, ready to deploy in a fraction of a second, as a defense against bears, the results might be more effective than the 98% we see with handguns."

 

[BearBiologist]

As someone with an MS in Animal Behavior, I call "BS". his data collection, as described would be unworthy of a high school student. While I agree that handguns are more effective than long arms, his lumping of data into one pool is ludicrous. How many "attacks" are false charges and how many are never even begun before the bear runs off. Loud noises often scare wild animals (witness the effectiveness of air horns and bear "poppers"). In many instances, the handgun is effectively a loud noisemaker. Black bears vs grizzlies?? Two different animals!! Too many errors in thought and conclusion making to enumerate here!

 

[the_leper_colony]

As someone with an MS in Animal Behavior, I call "BS". his data collection, as described would be unworthy of a high school student. While I agree that handguns are more effective than long arms, his lumping of data into one pool is ludicrous. How many "attacks" are false charges and how many are never even begun before the bear runs off. Loud noises often scare wild animals (witness the effectiveness of air horns and bear "poppers"). In many instances, the handgun is effectively a loud noisemaker. Black bears vs grizzlies?? Two different animals!! Too many errors in thought and conclusion making to enumerate here!

He's written a series of articles, including a couple linked here:

Couple barely survive bear attack.

Longish video, the action begins right at the 16 min. mark.......very lucky couple.

www.rugerforum.com

He appears to have put more time and effort into the analysis than any other journalist I've come across, and when you consider the inconsistent hodgepodge of data available, I think the articles still make interesting reading.

As always IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc., etc.

 

[Hvymax]

Well a pistol is definitely better than nothing. Maybe even a sharp stick.

 

[BearBiologist]

He's written a series of articles, including a couple linked here:

Couple barely survive bear attack.

Longish video, the action begins right at the 16 min. mark.......very lucky couple.

www.rugerforum.com

He appears to have put more time and effort into the analysis than any other journalist I've come across, and when you consider the inconsistent hodgepodge of data available, I think the articles still make interesting reading.

As always IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc., etc.

It's not that the data are "hodgpodge" but rather poor collecting (You want everything eliminated except ONE variable) and poor "analyses". Data versus anecdotes!

 

[the_leper_colony]

It's not that the data are "hodgpodge" but rather poor collecting (You want everything eliminated except ONE variable) and poor "analyses". Data versus anecdotes!

Why don't you contact the author? According to his bio, Dean Weingarten "has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation." He posts on a conservative news forum that I used to frequent, and seems like a well-informed & reasonable guy - I'm sure he wouldn't mind discussing your concerns!

 

[Hvymax]

It's not that the data are "hodgpodge" but rather poor collecting (You want everything eliminated except ONE variable) and poor "analyses". Data versus anecdotes!

Bear encounters usually involve more than one variable

 

[Johnny-Baseball]

I'm in the woods. I am packing a .44 mag revolver in a chest holster, a can of pepper spray and an aerosol horn, each in a pouch dangling from my belt. I suddenly come upon a brown bear...it is 50 feet away from me, eyeballing me and demonstrating that he just brushed his teeth.

I suspect I only have X amount of time to reach for one of my three carry items, and that the bear will reach me in 1.5X time - too little to allow me to deploy more than one of my three items.

Who here would reach for the pepper spray and why? Who would reach for the air horn and why?

Who wants to remain alive to relay the results?

With due respect to other posters, I'll always take the option that is guaranteed to resolve the problem - permanently.

 

[s4s4u]

I expect it boils down to the old saying, a gun on your person is more effective than the gun left at home, or at camp. There is no doubt that a long gun with a big hole will be more effective than a handgun, but it isn't as convenient.

 

[davevabch]

I do not know anything about a Griz or Brown Bear attack. Other than video's which IMO show something incredible. Tremendous speed, unbelievable amount of thick fur, fat tissue and a skull 50 times harder than a human. Able to chase down a Bull Moose and destroy it etc. Doing a surprise attack at close range give the human prey about 1 second to get off one shot and then lights out.
So what firearm is best? I have no idea. Using bear spray? Think I will just stay out of his territory.

 

[BearBiologist]

I'm in the woods. I am packing a .44 mag revolver in a chest holster, a can of pepper spray and an aerosol horn, each in a pouch dangling from my belt. I suddenly come upon a brown bear...it is 50 feet away from me, eyeballing me and demonstrating that he just brushed his teeth.

I suspect I only have X amount of time to reach for one of my three carry items, and that the bear will reach me in 1.5X time - too little to allow me to deploy more than one of my three items.

Who here would reach for the pepper spray and why? Who would reach for the air horn and why?

Who wants to remain alive to relay the results?

With due respect to other posters, I'll always take the option that is guaranteed to resolve the problem - permanently.

Bear Spray. Herrero found spray to be98% effective; handguns 62% effective. That was in statistically examined data of 300+ attacks in the US and Canada. He is recognized as one of the (if not, THE) expert on bear attacks. Subsequent studies bear his findings out!

 

[BearBiologist]

Why don't you contact the author? According to his bio, Dean Weingarten "has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation." He posts on a conservative news forum that I used to frequent, and seems like a well-informed & reasonable guy - I'm sure he wouldn't mind discussing your concerns!

As a biologist with several degrees, I don't need to consult a "weatherman" on bears. I too have "published" numerous analyses (Anonymously, as Federal papers) and retired after 20+ years with Department of the Interior doing biological analyses of Federal projects, managing habitat restorations, etc. His article, as written, contains no valid analysis, just anecdotal evidence.

 

[mirglip]

The government and mass media always seem to say bear spray is the best alternative, but who trusts the government and mass media, or the data they provide? I doubt they value my life over the bear's.
The main advantage of bear spray I see is less hearing loss, but if a bear is charging, hearing loss is the least of my concerns.
I agree about the false charges, but wouldn't a warning shot from a 44 magnum be fairly effective in those cases?
When my dog acts funny in the backcountry, the first thing I do is put in my ear plugs.

 

[Johnny-Baseball]

The government and mass media always seem to say bear spray is the best alternative, but who trusts the government and mass media, or the data they provide? I doubt they value my life over the bear's.
The main advantage of bear spray I see is less hearing loss, but if a bear is charging, hearing loss is the least of my concerns.
I agree about the false charges, but wouldn't a warning shot from a 44 magnum be fairly effective in those cases?
When my dog acts funny in the backcountry, the first thing I do is put in my ear plugs.

I agree. Besides, who (besides the liberals) is concerned about a bear's hearing loss?

 

[Johnny-Baseball]

I've learned over the years (and after testifying as an expert in over 120 lawsuits) to be wary of self-proclaimed experts. Guess that would include me as well as others here.

Fortunately, just as mirglip stated, I'm only concerned about my survival, not the bear's. Of course, my primary defense against brown bears is distance...I live many hundreds of miles away from their habitat, and intend to keep it that way.

 

[BearBiologist]

The government and mass media always seem to say bear spray is the best alternative, but who trusts the government and mass media, or the data they provide? I doubt they value my life over the bear's.
The main advantage of bear spray I see is less hearing loss, but if a bear is charging, hearing loss is the least of my concerns.
I agree about the false charges, but wouldn't a warning shot from a 44 magnum be fairly effective in those cases?
When my dog acts funny in the backcountry, the first thing I do is put in my ear plugs.

Nice response. "I'll just ignore the facts because I don't like the messenger". Kinda like kill the messenger because you don't like the message. Yet, you are willing believe a magazine writer who is part of the mass media you don't trust?

Ever been charged?? I have! Seen over 2 dozen grizzlies/brown bears and 200 black bears in the wild. If you were serious, you wouldn't carry a .44 mag but a .454 Casull, .460, or 10mm. That's what the Sirius dogsled patrols in Greenland choose for polar bears-which are larger than brown bears and they encounter them almost daily. Our biologists who do bear control in Alaska carry spray or shotguns.

BTW: I was certified to use bear spray or firearms for wild animals. In grizzly country I will often carry both a sidearm and bear spray (Moose frighten me more than bears do!). My choice was a Reeder 454 (gave it to my daughter), a very HOT loaded 45 OM Blackhawk, or my Glock 20.

 

[the_leper_colony]

As a biologist with several degrees, I don't need to consult a "weatherman" on bears. I too have "published" numerous analyses (Anonymously, as Federal papers) and retired after 20+ years with Department of the Interior doing biological analyses of Federal projects, managing habitat restorations, etc. His article, as written, contains no valid analysis, just anecdotal evidence.

Allow me to quote someone for whom you obviously have enormous respect:

"... I agree that handguns are more effective than long arms..."
- see Post #2

If the subject article had been published in a scientific journal, perhaps your complaints would be appropriate. Given that the article is from a firearms-related source, and you appear to agree with the author's conclusion that "handguns are more effective than long arms", one wonders if you simply enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing (in which case you should contact the author, as I suggested in Post #6).

As always IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc., etc.

 

[mirglip]

Nice response. "I'll just ignore the facts because I don't like the messenger". Kinda like kill the messenger because you don't like the message. Yet, you are willing believe a magazine writer who is part of the mass media you don't trust?

Ever been charged?? I have! Seen over 2 dozen grizzlies/brown bears and 200 black bears in the wild. If you were serious, you wouldn't carry a .44 mag but a .454 Casull, .460, or 10mm. That's what the Sirius dogsled patrols in Greenland choose for polar bears-which are larger than brown bears and they encounter them almost daily. Our biologists who do bear control in Alaska carry spray or shotguns.

BTW: I was certified to use bear spray or firearms for wild animals. In grizzly country I will often carry both a sidearm and bear spray (Moose frighten me more than bears do!). My choice was a Reeder 454 (gave it to my daughter), a very HOT loaded 45 OM Blackhawk, or my Glock 20.

View attachment 31316

The government and mass media have been the messenger of too many lies for me to regard them as a source of "facts". Just because "facts" come from some "authority" does not make them facts. As a matter of fact, that is a well know logical fallacy... "Appeal to authority". Believing known liars again and again is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Sometimes liars tell the truth, but that doesn't make me trust them, especially when the truth is intertwined with "political correctness".
I have only been charged by a Grizzly once, and it was an angled charge and it passed just uphill from me and kept on going. I had my little 44 Special snubby in my hand and it felt small.
I have considered upgrading my 44 magnum to a 10MM, weighed the pros and cons and for now have decided to stay with the 44 Magnum.

 

[BearBiologist]

The government and mass media have been the messenger of too many lies for me to regard them as a source of "facts". Just because "facts" come from some "authority" does not make them facts. As a matter of fact, that is a well know logical fallacy... "Appeal to authority". Believing known liars again and again is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Sometimes liars tell the truth, but that doesn't make me trust them, especially when the truth is intertwined with "political correctness".
I have only been charged by a Grizzly once, and it was an angled charge and it passed just uphill from me and kept on going. I had my little 44 Special snubby in my hand and it felt small.
I have considered upgrading my 44 magnum to a 10MM, weighed the pros and cons and for now have decided to stay with the 44 Magnum.

You might look at this, if you haven't read it or for those who may be considering the 10mm. BTW: I use Underwood ammo whenever available in my caliber, although I use the 220 gr. hardcast. In my Blackhawk, I use 325 gr loaded to about 1100-1200 fps.

Best 10mm Ammo for Bear Defense To Be Confident and Safe

Stay safe in bear country with the best 10mm ammo for defense. Be confident that the ammunition you have will stop a charging bear.

ammo.com

 

[dweis]

Bear spray is the best defense. When a bear charges it will run fast, low to the ground, and head on. Very. Hard to aim at, and small lethal target area, the head which has vet thick skull.