Red Label Returning!!!!

[XUSNORDIE]

It was a "walnut" Condor over/under. It looked like metal was painted (similar to one of those Heritage single action 22s) instead of blued and the "walnut" stock had heavy satin coating that made the wood look plastic. The action was very stiff, so much so I had trouble operating the hinge.

Since my sporting gun I bought is auto I might still look at the new Rd Label unless it's $2K like Ruger did with their version of the Marlins at first.

Yep the Condors are on the lowest tier of over unders. They are extremely stiff and heavy, but very strong. The side by side version is very common in SASS.

Don't get "sporting clays" guns confused with trap or skeet guns. They are different, and will mount differently. Ribs, sights and weights will differ as well. Trap guns will make a clays course very difficult. Skeet guns will be ok. If I were to get back into sporting or 5 stand and had to buy another clays gun I would seriously consider the lower end Browning CX as it is a high quality do all shotgun. They have a version for just trap and one for skeet. I have a lower grade Fausti Sporting Clays but it's about shot out. In my opinion over/under is the way to go for sporting clays.

 

[GasGuzzler]

Call what I did whatever you want but none of it was all that hard even when using a crappy Mossberg pump so a semi auto should make it even easier. I only started missing when I shifted the hold due to a giant bruise. Every station had two birds. Half were second on report and half were timed. A couple were running on end like a rabbit. Some went away, some were side to side. Some were level and some went and fell. Some floated and some ripped. I'd say distance varied from 25 to 50 yards. The "short" barreled over/under looks fun for the same game I played regardless of name but I am afraid the new Red Label will be way over-priced like the levers were.

 

[Tensaw]

My Red Label 20 ga. is my favorite shotgun to shoot. But if I am in rough terrain or in the marsh I take my Remington 1187 12 ga. My Gold Label sits quietly in the safe.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

Call what I did whatever you want but none of it was all that hard even when using a crappy Mossberg pump so a semi auto should make it even easier. I only started missing when I shifted the hold due to a giant bruise. Every station had two birds. Half were second on report and half were timed. A couple were running on end like a rabbit. Some went away, some were side to side. Some were level and some went and fell. Some floated and some ripped. I'd say distance varied from 25 to 50 yards. The "short" barreled over/under looks fun for the same game I played regardless of name but I am afraid the new Red Label will be way over-priced like the levers were.

If all the stations were together side by side (5 of them) that was "5 Stand". Very mobile, can be set up about anywhere. If you were walking or driving a cart to each station laid out like a golf course that was typical Sporting Clays. There is American and British style. Yep all sorts of hunting scenarios will be presented from rabbit (special harder clays so they don't break when bouncing) quail, pheasant, dove, etc...from all directions. Sometimes they will throw in a "poison" bird of a different color that will deduct points if you hit it. The size of the clays will vary as well....the most difficult for me were "springing teal" with midis or battue clays thrown straight up. One course had high fast crossers thrown from tall towers using minis that was tough. Many courses, even 5 stand you can use the controller to adjust the speed/presentation yourself. I have an Orvis course 15 min from me....now I'm getting the urge to humiliate myself....the parking lot is filled mostly with extremely expensive SUVs and folks with shotguns in carts that cost half the amount of their vehicle. Crazy. Most shoot a round and then go drink bourbon and smoke cigars on the clubhouse porch. My youngest worked there as a trapper before he left for boot camp. They would tip him $100 bucks for working the trap controller, and then tip him another $100 to wipe down their guns as they drank and smoked...he made a killing on tips alone. Sporting clays is a complete lifestyle for some. I enjoyed it, was really into it at one time but holy smokes some of the courses are ridiculous. Showing up with a $1000 Fausti at some courses made me feel lower class...lol.

 

[GYJ44]

.....but I am afraid the new Red Label will be way over-priced like the levers were.

Overpriced? The Red Label was the affordable double. They may be more than you want to pay but "overpriced" may be a bit of an overstatement. You can't build a double in America on the cheap and it be any good. There are reasons why good doubles cost more than pumps or autos.

Same for leverguns. Entry level boltguns are easier to build than levers, which are a lot more complicated and require a good bit more skilled labor. Even with modern CNC machinery. Not to mention that EVERYTHING costs more now than it did before COVID and Bidenflation. It's like comparing Glocks to revolvers. Redhawks have an MSRP of $1400-$1500. Revolvers and levers are just complicated and as such, more expensive to build.

 

[32shooter]

I have always wanted a Red Label, never did get one. It this point if I were to get one it would probably be a 20ga. I recently bought a used/like new Browning 425 Bob Miller special to shoot sporting clays with. I retired in June and started working part time at the local course. They just installed 3 new 5 stands and have 3 courses, one course has 4 traps on each station, ranging from easy to hard. Also have 4 towers on the 3 courses, one is also used on the one 5 stand. If you guys ever get in the area, drop me a line, I am always looking for a reason to shoot.
https://airportridgesportingclays.com/

 

[GasGuzzler]

Sporting clays is a complete lifestyle for some. I enjoyed it, was really into it at one time but holy smokes some of the courses are ridiculous.

There were 15 stations and most of it reminded me of my addiction of the last six years ... golf. I am better than a hack at both it seems and I have better than crappy equipment but nothing like "those guys". I used a $100 gun show find of a lower tier Mossberg ... as in the Maverick to hit 23 of the first 26 my first time out without regard to worth of the gun.

Overpriced? The Red Label was the affordable double. They may be more than you want to pay but "overpriced" may be a bit of an overstatement. You can't build a double in America on the cheap and it be any good. There are reasons why good doubles cost more than pumps or autos.

You might have missed my point. "The Red Label was $XXX" has nothing to do with the potential new price. If it's overpriced like Ruger's reintroduction of the Marlin levers then I am out. No mass produced lever gun regardless of origin is worth $2K like the Ruglins were. I will not pay $3K for a Ruger anything, much less a new shotgun. Ruger doesn't exist to build fine walnut stocks and inlaid and/or engraved receivers. Rugers aren't Benellis.

If the Stoeger Condor I handled was $459, what Ruger should make as a Red Label should be $899. But the original Red Label was a low sales volume offering. If the Marlin 39A costs too much to reintroduce, then so does the Red Label. Ruger doesn't need to get into niche markets.

 

[GYJ44]

I'm not in the habit of missing points.

The Condor is made in Brazil where the minimum wage is equivalent to $286 a month. Ruger couldn't build a Condor in the US for $899, much less a Red Label.

Even a Brazilian Rossi 1892 is $600 and up.

I don't know where you're getting these numbers from, or all the crap about engraving or inlays. I just did a "instant quote" on Davidson's and a new 1894 Classic was as low as $917. What you'll pay and what the market will bear are obviously two very different things. We already have $1500 Redhawks for God's sake.

 

[GasGuzzler]

The Ruglin levers were selling for $2K when they came out. That is stupid. No one is paying $1500 for a Redhawk and if they are, they need a visit on a couch. The average SOLD price for a NEW Redhawk on GunBroker is less than $1000. Engraving and inlays refers to Red Label reintroduction, not any fake Marlin 1894. Those were overpriced because of the tacti-kool nick knacks like big loop, laminate, rail, stainless, fat butt pad, short barrel, fiber sights ... all the silly stuff. Ruger does not need to get (back) into the niche market. It wasn't profitable for them with the Red Label the first two times nor was it with the #1's. With what gets built by modern technology and prices now, the new Red Label should be under $1000. If not, it's a miss by Ruger. Yes, people will buy it as Ruger fans and they'll over pay (again). But once the initial run is over, sales will slump (again). A major majority of Ruglin buyers were Ruger fans not true Marlin fans. The majority of Red Label buyers will be Ruger fans, not shotgun fans. A $2-3K Red Label will not attract anyone away from the already trusted brands ... brands that are NOT made in America.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

There were 15 stations and most of it reminded me of my addiction of the last six years ... golf. I am better than a hack at both it seems and I have better than crappy equipment but nothing like "those guys". I used a $100 gun show find of a lower tier Mossberg ... as in the Maverick to hit 23 of the first 26 my first time out without regard to worth of the gun

That's great. I'd love to try that course. Sounds like an average local course. As you know from your golfing, courses have different degrees of difficulty. Some of which would be nearly impossible to rack a pump quick enough to bust the clays in time. Orvis has a "bring your pumps" event. The difficulty is decreased a bit but it's a challenge to get that last clay at times. There was a local but fun course in MD many years back. The entire time that club had it open they never changed the stands...it got boring. That place you could definitely have success with a pump. I used my 1964 Remington Wingmaster with fixed modified barrel and smoked it. I think it was just a side money maker for that club. When it was no longer a challenge and they weren't willing to invest in upgrades and folks stopped going. A shame because it was laid out in the woods very nicely. When you finished the course they had a tractor pulling a trailer with seats to bring the groups back to the starting point. I think they made it into a 3D archery course. My current club had 5 stand. It was great but they wouldn't invest in upgrades and took it down. I never understood that because they have a beautiful "manicured" trap range with a very successful county trap team. Anyway I hope you enjoy it and stick with it. Try some different courses that have modern trap remotes that change up the speed, size, and direction of the clays. I think you will find yourself humbled more often than not.

 

[GYJ44]

The Ruglin levers were selling for $2K when they came out. That is stupid. No one is paying $1500 for a Redhawk and if they are, they need a visit on a couch. The average SOLD price for a NEW Redhawk on GunBroker is less than $1000. Engraving and inlays refers to Red Label reintroduction, not any fake Marlin 1894. Those were overpriced because of the tacti-kool nick knacks like big loop, laminate, rail, stainless, fat butt pad, short barrel, fiber sights ... all the silly stuff. Ruger does not need to get (back) into the niche market. It wasn't profitable for them with the Red Label the first two times nor was it with the #1's. With what gets built by modern technology and prices now, the new Red Label should be under $1000. If not, it's a miss by Ruger. Yes, people will buy it as Ruger fans and they'll over pay (again). But once the initial run is over, sales will slump (again). A major majority of Ruglin buyers were Ruger fans not true Marlin fans. The majority of Red Label buyers will be Ruger fans, not shotgun fans. A $2-3K Red Label will not attract anyone away from the already trusted brands ... brands that are NOT made in America.

So because people were paying way over MSRP when the guns first became available, you're mad at Ruger? No, they were "overpriced" because of supply & demand. Big loops, laminate stocks and stainless steel aren't "tacticool". They're just modern features that you obviously don't like but apparently some folks do. The Classic is made for you and it's ~$900. Where's the rub?

Fake Marlin 1894? True Marlin fans? Why do you care why other people buy anything? How do you know that's true in the first place? Sounds like you're just angry at reality, terribly misinformed and have concocted most of this in your head.

 

[Chief]

Yep the Condors are on the lowest tier of over unders. They are extremely stiff and heavy, but very strong. The side by side version is very common in SASS.

Don't get "sporting clays" guns confused with trap or skeet guns. They are different, and will mount differently. Ribs, sights and weights will differ as well. Trap guns will make a clays course very difficult. Skeet guns will be ok. If I were to get back into sporting or 5 stand and had to buy another clays gun I would seriously consider the lower end Browning CX as it is a high quality do all shotgun. They have a version for just trap and one for skeet. I have a lower grade Fausti Sporting Clays but it's about shot out. In my opinion over/under is the way to go for sporting clays.

I got the Browning CXT mostly to shoot trap with but it does ok at sporting clays. You just have to remember that it doesn’t present at 50/50, more like 60/40. We don’t have a 5 stand place around here. Skeet is a bit of travel if you want to shoot it.

 

[GasGuzzler]

Not mad ant anyone or any company. Ruger forum here so I feel it on subject to share my opinion of ... Ruger. Ruger is making a mistake if they try (again) to get into the niche gun realm. People that pay double are idiots. Those are two related opinions. And yes, all that crap on a lever action is tacti-kool. It's the definition of the kinda stupid internet word. $900 is stretching the cost of a new lever action towards poor ROI. I don't care what other people buy with exception of the fact it's what manufacturers use to determine what models to develop and the prices they sell them. All this seems simple yet one person doesn't understand each and every little point made.

Try some different courses that have modern trap remotes that change up the speed, size, and direction of the clays. I think you will find yourself humbled more often than not.

I am closer to the Metro-mess than I like already and places to shoot outside of town are few and far between. I will get to go often enough that the $222 I spent on the 1100 so far is justified but not enough to get bored. Maybe in ten years when people are selling off their Red Label regrets (if Ruger prices them too highly and sheeple then double that) I might still be interested enough to buy one private sale. I will be close to retirement by then.

This place has the stations all set up in the woods down (in elevation) below the "clubhouse" reached by gravel road. Many shooters bring their own buggies and side by sides (those are over $40K now in some cases) but the place rents golf cart style buggies too. Price is similar to golf when you split the cart with a friend. Not counting ammo (golf balls?) or gun rental (not many people rent clubs) it's $50-75 with a split cart. I found a 250 round case of 12 gauge I forgot I had...probably got it cheap. Then again, a box of 100 was $17 the last time I bought some and I paid $37 the other day at Walmart.

CLICK HERE FOR WEBSITE

And maybe this will bring down the prices of the originals to an affordable level for us common folks. Geez, the collectors gonna hate that.

Agreed! ^^^

This post on page one is proof some people don't read all the responses, just spout off when they see red.

 

[dadstillsurfs]

I have never even seen one in person. That says a lot. But since I just shot a 100 round sporting clay match I am kind of in the game for a semi or over/under. May come home with one today which doesn't give Ruger a chance to make me a customer again. Oh well, I never buy new any way.

Too bad you weren't closer. I've got a 12 ga Benelli Cordoba tjat id like to sell that LOVES eating 100 round sessions on dove or clays.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

This place has the stations all set up in the woods down (in elevation) below the "clubhouse" reached by gravel road. Many shooters bring their own buggies and side by sides (those are over $40K now in some cases) but the place rents golf cart style buggies too. Price is similar to golf when you split the cart with a friend. Not counting ammo (golf balls?) or gun rental (not many people rent clubs) it's $50-75 with a split cart. I found a 250 round case of 12 gauge I forgot I had...probably got it cheap. Then again, a box of 100 was $17 the last time I bought some and I paid $37 the other day at Walmart.

Yep Sporting is in the woods. Even some 5 Stand is in woods and much prefer that over an open field. Carts make the courses easy to navigate for sure. However back then I enjoyed the walk. My Father N Law was an avid addicted golfer. He gave me a golf caddy. I converted it to carry my clays gun and bag/accessories. My issue now is even though I can cart from station station, after all my dang surgeries and aging I have difficulty climbing the steps to the shooting platform on some stations. When I was into it I didn't use the higher price loads.....the cheapest dove loads were "ok" but doves are a lot softer than some clays. Especially rabbit clays. The best "bang for buck" I found was Remington Gun Club in 8 or 7.5. I had cases of it stacked up. Back then I was usually shooting 1200 rounds/month at two different courses. You mentioned bruising early....if you get hooked you may want to have the stock fit to your mount mechanics. Its more than just cutting to LOP. That and a Kick-Eeez sporting recoil pad helped. You should not be bruising.....used to see new guys at the end of a 100rd course rubbing shoulders and some with red welts on cheeks. That is from a poor mount and gun that doesn't fit. A good course will fit a rental gun best they can to new shooters, or at least review your gun fit/skill level for better enjoyment of the sport. Orvis Hill Country is excellent at that. I hope you enjoy it. Great sport.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

I got the Browning CXT mostly to shoot trap with but it does ok at sporting clays. You just have to remember that it doesn’t present at 50/50, more like 60/40. We don’t have a 5 stand place around here. Skeet is a bit of travel if you want to shoot it.

Yeah the CXT is mostly a trap gun. Shooting sporting with a trap stock and high ribs is tough. Even the CX has ribs a bit to high for sporting in my opinion, but it's a "do all" sporting, trap, skeet, hunting gun so everything is meshed together. I still like it though......if I can recoop enough to get back into it I will get one and have my older Fausti Sporting fitted to my Wife. Having a Orvis facility only a few miles away is a constant reminder of how much I loved the sport.

 

[GYJ44]

Not mad ant anyone or any company.

Certainly comes off that way.

Ruger forum here so I feel it on subject to share my opinion of ... Ruger.

That's fine but when you're using absurd examples not related to anything Ruger did, like people paying way over MSRP for guns just hitting the market, it kinda comes off a certain way.

People that pay double are idiots.

Agreed.

And yes, all that crap on a lever action is tacti-kool.

There's nothing "tacticool" about stainless laminate guns, period. The rest is up for debate but since they make the Classic version and it's available for you to buy right now for $900, I don't see the point of your anger. Newsflash, some people like leverguns as suppressor hosts, myself included. Some folks like optics and/or better sights. Some folks will actually mount a light to them and use them for something besides looking pretty. Some folks have all sorts of leverguns, from original antiques to modern traditionals, to fully modernized "tacticool" guns that actually serve a purpose. Some folks are open minded.

$900 is stretching the cost of a new lever action towards poor ROI.

Like I said, it is what it is. Leverguns are no longer the first choice for cheap or entry level deer rifles. They're more expensive to make and we have rampant inflation to consider. Have you been paying attention to the prices of literally everything since 2020? Yeah, in my mind, most standard production guns should be $500 or less, Old Model Blackhawks should be $300, Single Sixes $200 and used N-frames should be $400 but I also have enough sense to realize that it isn't that logic is outdated by about 20-25yrs. It's 2025 and $1000 is the new $500 but since this isn't a political forum, I won't go into why but you should already know why.

Since it is 2025 and not 2005, if you're expecting anything even remotely resembling the original Red Label to be $900, you're in for some serious disappointment.

All this seems simple yet one person doesn't understand each and every little point made.

Doesn't understand? You think because I question your logic it's because I don't understand your points?

 

[eveled]

I bought a Red Label in the 90’s. At the time it was the only American made OU. My LGS ordered it for me I paid $850 for it. The list was over $1000.

I don’t see how they could re introduce it for under 2k. I don’t know why they would bring it back. It doesn’t seem like it was ever all that successful.

The thing is, I never had anyone look at it twice. My friends who had 870’s and 500’s thought I was nuts for spending so much on it.

The trap and skeet guys all looked down their noses at it. I found those games to be boring anyway.

It was in a weird spot between cheap field grade and high end.

I love this gun. I must have have walked 100 miles with it over the years.

 

[GasGuzzler]

If the non-traditional Levers made under the Marlin name by Ruger were built like normal Marlins and not circus rifles, the price would have been less than $1000 and no one would have paid $2K. So the manufacturer had plenty to do with my examples. Car makers stuff new models full of options so all those fanboys waiting in line will overpay upon release. Not much different here. If Ruger makes the new Red Label and sells it for $2500, sales will die after the initial release. Look at Ruger's American series of rifles and handguns. They are in the target area where Ruger succeeds. $800 in the '90's was a lot for a shotgun (just not a lot for a fancy sporting clays gun). So there's yet another opinion Ruger will fail (again) with the Red Label if it's overpriced. $2K is overpriced for a Ruger. Funny thing is the one dissenter liked the post above even though it says what I have been saying.

 

[GYJ44]

Let me get this straight. The manufacturer selected the initial configurations (I don't like stainless/laminate either) to manipulated buyers, which only benefited the dealers selling them and only short term, instead of introducing the configuration they thought would sell? Do you know how that sounds? Pretty sure the post above is not saying that and it really has ZERO to do with this discussion anyway.

You said they were overpriced and I disagreed. They cost more because they cost more to make. Anything with more than one barrel costs more to make than its single barrel counterpart. There is no way to manufacture anything that resembles the Red Label for the price YOU want to pay. The problem is not Ruger or their product, it's YOUR perception of where the pricing should be and it's simply unrealistic. Do you realize inflation hit 9% in 2022? We'll never get that money back.

It's literally nothing like cars. It makes more sense to look at the guns themselves. In the 1990's, when the Red Label was $800-$900, a Blackhawk or Vaquero was under $400. Today the single actions are about $800. Why would the Red Label be $900? I paid almost $700 for a Turkish Yildiz over/under 20ga back in 2016 and those aren't particularly well regarded. I paid $950 for a Fabarm SXS 12ga, something I'd consider to be an equal to Ruger........25yrs ago.

I have never opined one way or another if Ruger will succeed or fail. We haven't even seen them, let alone know what the MSRP will be. You have and you used manufactured evidence to do it, with references to $2000-$3000 leverguns that only exist in your head. Same as the $2500 figure you're throwing around now.

All that said, I'm so glad Ruger has smart fans that know better how they should run their business. I mean, they've only been at it for 76yrs, have turned a profit every year, are debt-free and operate on cash and are now the largest and most diverse firearms manufacturer in the US.

 

[Chief]

Good read GYJ44! Ruger is a well run , profit company. There are however many products that I don’t particularly care for but others love them and as long as they make the stuff I like, I don’t care. For instance, outside of their 1911 and MK I through 4 models, I have never really liked their auto pistols. I think more of their distributor special guns should be standard offerings. The Red Label, No1 and the Hawkeye guns are very nice old school guns but due to the issues you mentioned not really in every bodies financial wheelhouse. I would like to have a No 1, if I could find one in a caliber that I want without searching the cosmos for it.

 

[bobski]

"Built by the highly-skilled craftsmen at one of the world's premier makers of fine firearms, Connecticut Shotgun Manufacturing Company (CSMC), the Red Label III marks a new era in Ruger shotgun excellence."

what is cmc thinking??????????????

 

[hittman]

what is cmc thinking?

 

[instructor]

If you check in Ruger's website it is stated that an arrangement with Connecticut Shotgun firm is involved with this revival of the Red Label shotguns and they are a high-quality producer of shotguns

 

[bobski]

uhhhh, yes cmc guns are......
you might be missing my point.

 

[bobski]

having cmc opting to be involved with rrr III is like porche building ford escapes.

personally i think cmc is in trouble and is looking to carve out a corner in the common gun market.
i think all their old gun craftsmen and customers are aging out and the m21, fox, parker market tanked. even their very own brand is slow to sell. cmc never had to be on GI and the likes selling their wares. but they have been for some time.

 

[thinckley]

Based on the fact that I have never heard of them before this discussion, there is nothing wrong with trying to get more market share and name recognition. If the quality stands up, and the "snobs" can overlook the Ruger name on it, it could very well be a good "entry-level" gun for people who are wanting to get into shotgun sports.

I only have one Red Label, purchased primarily because a) it is a Ruger, b) I wanted a gun for upland and waterfowl, c) it was priced right. Would I consider one of these? Maybe, but probably not at the current gauge and price point. Offering a 12 gauge would tempt me a lot more...

 

[Barbarosa99]

I’ll pass, it’s not even a Ruger and CMSC has a poor reputation for customer service

 

[G2]

When buying a BROWNING are you really buying a Browning?

Browning's high-quality shotguns, like the popular Citori and Ultra XS Pro, are indeed made in Japan by the Miroku Corporation.

Seems like the bridge was crossed long ago.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

Browning's high-quality shotguns, like the popular Citori and Ultra XS Pro, are indeed made in Japan by the Miroku Corporation.

Has been known for years....and those in the know of shotgun sports know Miroku makes a fine product.....