NEW RUGER!!!!

[jengel]

I just ordered two of them. Now they only have 19. I am really thinking that I should order 10 more. I don't think that the boss would mind. I sure wish that they made one in 4 5/8". I wonder if that would be the next model. ???????? They are a little more than a standard Blackhawk but not too bad.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Occurs to me it might just be a little market test . . . running it up the flagpole, so to speak, testing how quickly the internet and collectors can get the word spread.

 

[caryc]

Occurs to me it might just be a little market test . . . running it up the flagpole, so to speak, testing how quickly the internet and collectors can get the word spread.

Exactly. As I said maybe they are making what fits into their schedule right now. Then they can sit back and see what happens to them. They can always make more if they see a market.

I don't think anyone is involved is some conspiracy to keep them a secret. Chet, you can reason it out any way you see fit, I still think Ruger knows what they are doing.

 

[jimbo1096]

Sure they do - and whether it's just getting the last of the frames used up or testing for a new model, it's still what they think works best business-wise.
Wish I had the cash and I'd be ordering one. I think a 41mag flattop would be the cat's meow. I'd have my druthers with a shorter barrel, 5 1/2 or better yet 4 5/8ths. Wouldn't that be a dandy field gun. No I don't think Ruger 'listens' to the collectors. Maybe somebody was told to get rid of the leftover frames, and when they went looking said "golliee - lookie at all these 41 mag barrels and there are some extra cylinders too - I think I'll just stir the pot over there on those Ruger web forums and make a little something different---Chet and Cary haven't had anything interesting happen in awhile".

 

[TL in OR]

Before the advent of the internet, it's doubtful that I would have stumbled across the fact that a gun like this was offered until long after they were all spoken for. I ordered up a few of these new .41 FT's for the shop, and when I spoke to my salesman at Williams, he was unaware that they were flattops, as was another salesman! He had to go physically check one to verify that they were indeed different. I guess my point is that it is somewhat frustrating how under-utilized all this modern communication is when even the folks selling this stuff don't know they have it. If I can receive an e-mail announcement of the SR-556, why not one announcing that Williams has a limited run of .41 FT's, plus timely inclusion on Ruger's website? If I were a distributor, I would want this to be a contractual condition when committing to purchase a run of "x" number of guns. Perhaps I'm missing something, but it seems that this would be beneficial to all parties concerned.
I suppose if they did it more efficiently, they'd do it more often, and a Ruger Single-action "loonie" like me would be driven to the poorhouse trying to get 'em all, so maybe all's well! ;^)

 

[rugerguy]

"As the cylinder turns...." so go the days of our lives....hey, a new soap opera...
anyway..you guys are ALL "correct" to a point, and I agree with MOST of them... o, makes NO sense "Hoiw" they are doing the numbering lately as to "models"( the prefixes...) yes, typical not to waste anything ( throw it out? ) yes, use those frames for "something" as 'Ale-8 says ,"run it up the flag pole...": but if past history reminds me, the "least made Blackhawk" was the .30 carbine, followed by the .41 magnum...yes, indeed Chad, a "niche"....no they cannot seem to get some things done " from a collectors standpoint..." what makes it collectible to some,but is still a normal , production item, NOT a "specialty"...me, I feel they run the "anniversary " stuff into the ground....hard to sell any of it, we see it sitting at the gun shows, they made far too many, sat in the distributor warehouses and closed out at VERY LOW prices...I know, I was a 'dealer' too.........1999 aniiversary guns were "closing out " at $169-189, the Vaqueros , with the engraving" closed out at $289, recall Davidsons bought like 17 pallets of Vaqueros !!! and the Single Six, was indeed a "dog" ALL 'wrong' and yessir closed out in the low $220 range...... CDNN< has the 'anniversary Blackhawks (357 and 44, BOTH really cheap, even as 'matched' sets...yes, price them cheap enough and they will "sell".....and now the anniversary Supers are sitting at the shows and I know of a couple of dealers that CANNOT sell the ones they got..maybe in time, when no-one else has one, they will "move"...time will tell....just because they do NOT make many of "something" does NOT make it a :"sure thing, collectible..." and sorry but a 41 mag , in a "single action" is NOT a big mover here in Ohio.....a double action?? yes, they will sell, but still not much more...I usually have 41 mags on the table, and they are the "slowest" movers for us...heck I have one of the first .41 mag Bisleys made, with the fluted cylinder, and NO one has even looked at it , the past 3 gun shows........
oh well, just MY .02 cents and obsvervation, and yes, they are very successful at some of things they are doing as a "company", good returns on MY stocks, better than GE even.......but thats another story, "as the cylinder turns.......so go the days of our lives" :wink:

 

[street]

There is a lot of discussion about Ruger making bad decisions. Which some of you are relating it to mean that Ruger is a badly run company. When someone makes a statement that they think Ruger made a bad decision. One of the arguments that is used, is a question! "Are they a successful Company"? Well everyone knows the answer to that, it's a "YES". But that is not a good argument, because you can be a successful company and make some bad decisions. Example are The T514s, Lightweights, and lets not forget the .256 Mag. Hawkeye. These guns only lasted a couple of years and or had very low production numbers. All bad decisions. Being a great company is to limit these mistakes. Which Ruger has done by making models that have been in production as long as 60 years. They have had more of these then ones that didn't make it.

Chad mention that Ruger didn't advertise this .41 Flattop. Now I don't claim to be any kind of business man, but in order to sell something wouldn't you want as many people to know about your product as possible? There are companies that pay Millions and Millions of dollars just to put a sticker on a race car. They think it's important to advertise. And they don't mind paying for it. Saying Ruger is a successful company, and they know what they are doing, is not an argument for Ruger not advertising this .41 Flattop. The fastest way to sell these is to advertise and let people know what out there.

Chad made a statement that only 250 of these 41 Flattops are being made and was chastised for it being a guess. Come on folks, production numbers are always a guess, as Ruger will never give out production numbers on any of their guns. And in case you all forget we owe a big debt to Chad for giving us production numbers for all Rugers guns. Estimated yes, but a well educated guess if I may say so. No one else has bothered to do this.

Some of you are saying that Ruger is such a good run company and has turned a profit every year, and we should not complain about what they are doing. Well I agree, Ruger is a well run company, and has made money every year. But they need to also listen to constructive criticism. If you look at this forum and see all of the modified guns, such as 357s rechambered to .45 or 44 spc., bisley grip frames on guns that don't have them, and look at all of the Brass frames that show up that are not factory, and different grips. Well you get the picture. Look at the extra profit and how much more of a well run company Ruger would have been it they got the money from all of these modified guns by manufacturing them. They need to listen to the people that are buying these guns.

It was stated "Collectors can be very passionate but I don't think they will keep Ruger in business". Well I for one accept this statement. Collectors only, will not keep Ruger in business. But lets look at this a little deeper, as this, as well as a lot of questions cannot be answer with a simple "Yes or No". As Ruger is a successful company, how much better would their profits be if they catered to the collector. How many collectors of Rugers are out there. Would you say 10% of the people that buy Rugers are collectors, more, less. At least that many when you realize that most collectors are shooters too. If 10% of the people that buy Rugers are collectors, then by catering to collectors you can bet that more Rugers would be sold. Would Flatgate buy serial number 100, 357, and .44 Mag 50 Yr. anniversary models and another of the 50 yr. anniversary model .357, and .44 to shoot unless he was a collector of serial number 100 Rugers. Thus buying 4 guns instead of two. Collectors are icing on the cake to Ruger Profits. Yea, the cake is good but the icing makes it much better.

An argument was given that Ruger was a well run company because "Ruger is one of the most successful firearms manufacturers ever. They have turned a profit every year they've been in business. Their friggin' stock is worth twice what it was before the last SHOT Show. You might think, for just a second, that they might, just might know what the hell they're doing???????" "And to think they're doing that with America's economy going to hell. Again, someone there knows what they're doing".
Yes Ruger has done all of this, but as for the stock doubling in price, yes that is true, but they are still well below their all time high. Also Ruger only started paying a dividend the last 6 months. they used to pay a dividend but cut it out a few years ago because of declining sales. All Firearms companies had declining sales then. The reason that Ruger started paying a dividend and increasing sales, and their stock doubled is not because of great managment but because of the Obama scare. All firearms company have increased their sales after Obama was elected President. Had Ruger increased sales a few years ago when all firearms sales were down, and they were stopping their dividend, and their stock tanked 70 to 80% to 4 or 5 dollars, then you could say they were doing the right thing. Doubling a stock price from 4 to 5 dollars is not a argument for a well run company when it was 30 to 40 dollars a few years ago. This credit needs to go to the Obama's scare.

As for being number one and a very sucessful run company, let me run this by you. What company was number one in sales and profit in their field, for years. No one could touch them, everyone was running for second place. Now they are Bankrupt. I'm sure everyone thought they were a well run company and shouldn't be criticized, and when they were I bet they didn't listen either. By now I guess you know which company I'm talking about. It's GM. Just because a company is a well run company now, it doesn't mean that they will always be. You have to have happy customers. And to have happy customer you have to listen and respond to their wishes. And Chad only pointed out that they didn't do this very well with this .41 Flattop.

 

[Raydog59]

I'm no business major,I just know I WANT one!! Anyone got a name,number,or address of Williams who is distributing these?
Thanks,
Ray

 

[caryc]

Chad made a statement that only 250 of these 41 Flattops are being made and was chastised for it being a guess. Come on folks, production numbers are always a guess, as Ruger will never give out production numbers on any of their guns. And in case you all forget we owe a big debt to Chad for giving us production numbers for all Rugers guns. Estimated yes, but a well educated guess if I may say so. No one else has bothered to do this.

Whoa there.....slow down a minute buddy. This is what I said

Well, it seems to me that you are only guessing how many will be made. They do have a business schedule to follow. Maybe they are making what fits into their schedule right now.

Just how in hell do you see that as chastising? I didn't ridicule the man, I didn't make fun of him, I didn't mean that in any derogatory way, I simply stated that I thought he was guessing just as everybody else was.

Don't put words in my mouth.

Main Entry: chas·tise
Pronunciation: \(ˌ)chas-ˈtīz\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): chas·tised; chas·tis·ing
Etymology: Middle English chastisen, alteration of chasten
Date: 14th century

1 : to inflict punishment on (as by whipping)
2 : to censure severely : castigate
3 archaic : chasten 2
synonyms see punish

 

[flatgate]

Would Flatgate buy serial number 100, 357, and .44 Mag 50 Yr. anniversary models and another of the 50 yr. anniversary model .357, and .44 to shoot unless he was a collector of serial number 100 Rugers.

Nah, I only bought the .44 cal. for a shooter....

flatgate

PS Very interesting discussion here. I will simply say that I think SR&Co. should certainly "spread the word" when something as "odd" as a .41 cal. Flattop is issued! :shock: I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it was s/n 100!!

 

[bigbore45colt]

Before we all get our panties in a bunch over this, let's wait to see if we can find out more about this gun.

My guess is that it's a parts clean-up of the large frame 44 flat-top frames...that didn't sell too well. If so, why on earth would you spend any money advertising them? If there are only a few hundred to be made, why bother, what are you going to get for your advertising dollar? Ruger has already sold them to one, or more, distributor so they're gone. The distributors won't have a problem moving them, because the volume is so low so their risk is low.

I certainly don't think Ruger is obligated to advertise a parts clean-up that isn't even in their catalog. With small runs, you don't need the advertising to sell them so why spend the money?

That being said, if it does become a larger run, then yes. But, let's face it, the 41 mag isn't a big seller for them to begin with, as Rugerguy mentioned above, and they have 44 FT frames left because it didn't sell great either...

Just my $0.02

BB45C

 

[chet15]

PS Very interesting discussion here. I will simply say that I think SR&Co. should certainly "spread the word" when something as "odd" as a .41 cal. Flattop is issued! :shock: I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it was s/n 100!!

Well, right there you go! By all rights the .41 flattop should have had a different prefix and you should have been able to get your #100. But instead, Ruger numbered them right with the Super Blackhawk serial number sequence! Number them in their own serial number sequence like they should have been in the first place (different frame/caliber combination) and most of those early guns would not be on the secondary market...they'd be in a collectors' safe!! More missed sales? You folks be the judge of that! I've always tried to tell Ruger this but nobody there seems to take it into consideration: "For every gun off the secondary market, it guarantees Ruger has to make another gun to replace it". Who wouldn't be happy about this? Collectors? Stockholders? Ruger employees and their weekly paycheck? But Ruger will tell you (and I have heard them say it) "We're not interested in selling used guns, or secondary market guns"! Figure that one out!
And yes, GM went broke. Ford would be broke too if they didn't do a line of credit loan...some day that will need to be paid back too. With other car companies losing a ton of business because they don't have the product, Ford will probably come out pretty good on that little financing strategy.
But this brings up another point. Call it constructive criticism or whatever you want. Ford, Chevy, GM, Chrysler...every one of them advertise their product. These types of assets only last so long, depending on how you treat them...but chances are in 50 years, 99% of them will have been turned into something else that's metal, essentially keeping Ford, Chevy, GM and Chrysler in business as long as the execs don't keep too much of the profit for themselves. Now with firearms, a huge percentage will remain just as they were made, fifty, a hundred, a hundred and fifty and more ...and quality firearms like those made by Ruger should easily be around this long (as long as we keep the gun grabbers away).
With the car companies advertising the product on stuff that does, wear out, why doesn't Ruger advertise their stuff that doesn't wear out? Wouldn't it seem a lot tougher to sell a product if the guns on the secondary market aren't taken out of the secondary market? Isn't Ruger in competition with themselves?
But, the S416N again seems to prove that the company we all love really has nothing to do with their product once they leave factory doors...they are chunks of metal.
Again, all I'm saying is that Ruger should be exploring "every opportunity" for sales. Hoola Hoops and Rubix-cubes didn't sell by the millions because the makers didn't advertise them.
Cary, I've got to ask...if its a market test, who's going to buy them if nobody knows about them? What kind of marketing test is that and how accurate will it be as opposed to actually advertising the product? If you were a mass manufacturer of your awesome grips, woudn't you advertise them like a mass manufacturer should? Or shall you depend on word of mouth to sell the product? Making $ is the name of the game isn't it? I also like the idea of letting the private stocking gun dealer have a chance to make an extra buck here or there, instead of letting all the "Marts" of the world have the market share.
That's all I'm getting at.

By the way, here's a more accurate estimate of minimum number of S416N's produced:
Known sn ranges are 87-79538 to 87-79547 and 87-79749 to 87-79813, for a minimum number of 75 guns. William's originally got 40 and apparently they have an order for 36 more. I know, there might be other Super Blackhawk models mixed in there as well, but with their "cell" manufacturing process now, I'm not sure these guns aren't being made in consecutive batches per individual model.
OK, so 75 is the span of sn's vs. 76 ordered.....might be all there is to be folks (here I go trying to sell their product again!). And...for those of you who know what guns Williams' has been getting in the last couple of years (overruns and such), it would not be surprising if this run was very limited. Wouldn't that be something if this model that they have chosen not to advertise gets enough collector interest that they need to make a run???? If they weren't making $ on 75 guns, they probably wouldn't have made them in the first place, eh?
That is why I'm frustrated. Why be satisfied with being the #3 firearms manufacturer in the world when you should be exploring every opportunity that can get you back to number 1 where you used to be??? Or am I a bigger supporter of Ruger than even those who are there?
Chet15

 

[XLIV]

The fact that Ruger even made an "Anniversary Flattop Anything" is evidence they listen to the public.

The last couple gun shops I went in to had several OM SS with tags on them "Flattop Single Six" is evidence that only a small majority even bothers to keep up with the enthusiasm the collectors have.

Plus the fact that it was probably the collectors who even coined the phrase "Flattop" to begin with.

 

[circlergrugers]

Has anyone got one of these yet? How much are they going for? Any help?
Maybe some pictures if anyone has one.

 

[radicalrod]

Gosh at the NRA show last year I was told to make any different length 357 or 44 flat tops they would need an order for 500 of each length minimum......seems strange they can change caliber for a run of less than 100.....me I would have bought 8 more guns if they would have made the ANN guns in the 6.5, 7.5. and 10 inch varieties.....and it seem like it would have been a rather easy thing to do......sure this gun will be the "HOT" thing until the next "HOT" thing shows up......only thing I know for sure is they AIN"T making anymore REAL FLAT TOPS anytime soon see ya RR.

 

[bigbore45colt]

Hank,

I got my local dealer to order me one yesterday evening. He indicated that his cost from Williams was going to be about $450 and that he would charge me 15% mark-up so my cost was going to be around $500. Obviously, I'll know more when I get it.

I also bought one off of GunBroker last night. I paid $460 plus shipping for it. Here's the link to my auction from last night:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =141519981

Hope this helps.

BB45C

 

[circlergrugers]

Matt,
Thanks, looking to get one, they look nice. Hank

 

[bigbore45colt]

I understand that Hank Williams Jr asked Ruger to make this gun for him. It went straight to the manufacturing floor and Willams Shooters Supply purchased the remainder of the guns (79 in total).

Both my contacts at Ruger and Williams indicated that it is possible that there may be more made but, if so, probably not more than 250. Note that this was not a certainty, just a maybe.

This is not a standard production run, there was only a small quantity made.

BB45C

 

[circlergrugers]

I ordered one, and Williams told me that they have only received 40 from Ruger so far. They did not know how many more they would get at this time. But it is a limited run. Spoke with Ruger and they said a limited run and all would go to Williams, But no numbers at this time. Again it is going to run me around $500.00 shipped? Williams has only 7 left. Hank

 

[bigbore45colt]

A bit more info...

When I called Ruger Records to get the info on one of mine, I was told that it was a "Hank Williams, Jr model - Williams Shooters Supply Exclusive"...

BB45C