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chet15

Hawkeye
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A couple of days ago an RENE member asked me what I knew about a .41 Blackhawk he'd just heard about that was coming in shortly that for some reason had an 87- prefix on them. The catalog number is also different, S416N and Ruger's model number is 0868. I replied that Ruger must have really screwed up on that one, but could use a pic for my 3rd book on Ruger SA's when I get that going.
Well, attended the Des Moines gun show this weekend and saw two of them, serial numbers 87-79778 and 87-79791 and they are .41 FLATTOPS!! :shock:
Built on the 50th Anniversary .44 Mag. flattop frame (not the small .357 50th/.44 special frame) these guns have XR3 steel grip frames and rollmarks on the left side that say ".41 Blackhawk".
I find it curious that Ruger would number these within the 87- prefix of the Super Blackhawk series. It would seem they would have been a better fit if numbered right after the last of the 870- prefixed .44 flattop 50th guns (ala .357 50th/44 Special sn sequence), but here we have it.
The other guns I know of are 87-79538 & 87-79539, so looks like no more than a 250-gun span right now. Williams is the distributor I've just learned (since the dealers at the DSM show wouldn't tell me!).
I also wonder if Ruger isn't using up leftover 50th Anniversary .44 flattop frame castings.

Now I'm going to grip again!! A gun like this, a .41 Mag. flattop gets made and there is no pre-advertising by the distributor or even Ruger! If somebody would have done so maybe Ruger would have to make 10,000 of the things! I doubt they will ever be that popular, but wouldn't it make sense to have some idea of how many the consumer wanted so you could make all that they need plus a few more? I just don't get it. Guys at the top of their industry like that and sometimes they have very little idea about real business.
But....I guess its places like Rugerforum.com (not sanctioned or promoted by Ruger or any of their distributors) that's going to help sell THEIR guns for them again!!!!
Chet15
 

Sugar River

Buckeye
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Very interesting news Chet.
But they missed the boat big time by not building it on the 357 size frame.

But, at least they're trying!

Pete
 
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Well, it seems to me that you are only guessing how many will be made. They do have a business schedule to follow. Maybe they are making what fits into their schedule right now.

Maybe what they are making right now is profitable enough that they don't want to drop anything that is selling well for something new.

What they make today, they could always make six months from now. The way they are coming out with new products kind of indicates to me that Ruger is a successful business and knows what they are doing. A lot of companies today can't say that.

I don't think they adjust their marketing strategies by what members of an internet forum talk about. I think it's a little deeper than that.

With the economy what it is today, no company wants a lot of product sitting in inventory, even something that will eventually sell. I think they are sticking with what sells today.
 

street

Hunter
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Sugar River":3cj4rqot said:
Very interesting news Chet.
But they missed the boat big time by not building it on the 357 size frame.

But, at least they're trying!

Pete

The .357 Mag. frame is probably not large enough for the .41 Mag. After all the .41 Mag. Old Model Ruger was made on the .44 Frame.
 

Sugar River

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street":38bbks7t said:
Sugar River":38bbks7t said:
Very interesting news Chet.
But they missed the boat big time by not building it on the 357 size frame.

But, at least they're trying!

Pete

The .357 Mag. frame is probably not large enough for the .41 Mag. After all the .41 Mag. Old Model Ruger was made on the .44 Frame.

Sorry, but it's plenty strong enough. To wit, Bowen, Clements, Harton, etc will happily rebore the 357 FT to 41 mag. And they're not in the business of making guns that blow up.

Pete
 

street

Hunter
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Sugar River":djvbp7st said:
street":djvbp7st said:
Sugar River":djvbp7st said:
Very interesting news Chet.
But they missed the boat big time by not building it on the 357 size frame.

But, at least they're trying!

Pete

The .357 Mag. frame is probably not large enough for the .41 Mag. After all the .41 Mag. Old Model Ruger was made on the .44 Frame.

Sorry, but it's plenty strong enough. To wit, Bowen, Clements, Harton, etc will happily rebore the 357 FT to 41 mag. And they're not in the business of making guns that blow up.

Pete

Neither is Ruger, that's why they used the .44 Frame. PSI of the .44 Mag. is 36,000. PSI of the .41 Mag. 36,000. see link below.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/saami.htm
 

jengel

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
33
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Atwood, KS USA
A .41 Flattop???? That's just cool. I think that I might save up for one of them. I really like the .41 mag. It would go great with my Liberty model. It Williams a distrubutor? If someone could give me some info on them, that would be much appreciated. Thanks.
 

chet15

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caryc":1vq894gu said:
Well, it seems to me that you are only guessing how many will be made. They do have a business schedule to follow. Maybe they are making what fits into their schedule right now.

Maybe what they are making right now is profitable enough that they don't want to drop anything that is selling well for something new.

What they make today, they could always make six months from now. The way they are coming out with new products kind of indicates to me that Ruger is a successful business and knows what they are doing. A lot of companies today can't say that.

I don't think they adjust their marketing strategies by what members of an internet forum talk about. I think it's a little deeper than that.

With the economy what it is today, no company wants a lot of product sitting in inventory, even something that will eventually sell. I think they are sticking with what sells today.

All very sound ideas. But who asked for a .41 Flattop? I do believe there have been a lot more people ask for the larger flattop frame with fluted cylinders in .44 Mag with 7-1/2" and 10" barrels...and the barrel stock they have right now!
Its like Ruger's major gaffe when they made their 50th Anniversary Single-Six, a fixed sight Vaquero style (which is not that popular anyway, and the original Single-Sixes were drift adjustable...which Ruger could have made) with 4-5/8" barrel (the original Single-Sixes were 5-1/2") and a high polish finish with too flashy a plastic finish cocobolo grip.
Ruger didn't ask on that one either and look how that turned out...made too many and you can still find them cheap, and I wouldn't really consider them collectible either. I know, Ruger prefers not to talk about a model before it is released...but what kind of competition would they be losing out on by pre-announcing a Ruger 50th Anniversary Single-Six??? Wouldn't that have been their own proprietary model?
Now if they'd have put a flat loading gate on that Single-Six, made them with drift adjustable rear sight and blade front, put a 5-1/2" barrel on them, give them checkered black rubber grips or a nice pair of their non-plastic finish cocobolo grips (like those on the 50th Bearcat and Super Blackhawk) and serial numbered them in their own serial number sequence (instead of right with the other 268- prefixed Vaquero style Single-Sixes), Ruger might have made twice as many as they eventually made of the NR4F-50. If they're so interested in selling product instead of taking care of a collectors' wishes, then why don't they ask the populace before making moves like that? Chances are it would put more $ in their pockets. I'd think such a "gaffe" has a lot to do with the boys in product development, who evidently don't have that "collector sense" (or could give a care less in Sturm, Ruger & Co's past history), and who are only ingrained with selling a chunk of metal.
Remember, in order to sell 55,000 or so 50th Anniversary .22 pistols (which Ruger did!), all they had to do was put a 50th Anniversary rollmark on the standard model and give it red eagle medallion grips. And the 4-3/4" standard pistol was one of the least popular models when the 50th Auto came out in 1999! How was that possible? I sincerely believe it was because Ruger made their 50th pistol nearly identical to those of the original model made in 1949....no changing a barrel length or putting fancy grips on them or giving them a high polish or whatever...just a simple 50th anniversary rollmark. I heard WBR didn't want a 50th anniversary .22 pistol, but just an extra rollmark, red eagle grips and that one turned out to be one of their best selling individual models ever!!
Ruger today is supposedly listening to the customer, but their listening really doesn't go that deep I.M.O. If you build a "niche" flattop, why not make them 10" and in .44 Mag? But if Ruger really is using up leftover "large size" flattop frames, they are wasting them (again I.M.O.) on a flattop .41 that is even more "niche" than a 10" .44. Make too many and they will sit. I don't get it.
And....still no publicity!!! With all of the resources Ruger and the distributor has, they still don't publicize their product!! I've been a supporter of ruger for 3/4 of my time on this planet, but business is business I.M.O., and I just don't get it with them sometimes.
They could have also sold a bunch of .41 flattops to the people still involved with "Ruger's low serial number program", but again....????
Different frame/caliber combination...why not a new prefix?
Chet15
 

jengel

Bearcat
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Atwood, KS USA
Chet, once again you remind me why you are such an avid Ruger fan. I really enjoy your insight into the mind of a true collector. Thanks for all you do for the cause.
 
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chet15,

I respect your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. I have just one question for you. No need to expound on it, just a simple yes or no.

Is Ruger a successful company?

Everybody in the world has a better business plan for Ruger. Let's say that 50 guys here in this thread come up with "Wowee", "Yessir", "Yippee", "About time", "I'd buy one in a hot minute". How many of those 50 guys actually have the money to run out and buy one right now?

Does that sound like good strategy to base your business plan on?

I'm not picking on you but I say "Leave Ruger alone and let them continue on with the successful business that they now have. Arm chair quarterbacks are not going to improve their business.
 

chet15

Hawkeye
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Messages
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Dawson, Iowa
Thanks for the ata'boy, Jengel.
But with Ruger, I'm turning blue again.
Not once have I ever heard the company ask somebody within our circle (Red Eagle News Exchange or Ruger Collectors' Association) what they would like to see in a hypothetical model, and then bring it to vote with everybody to see where the most demand lies.
But those boys have forgotten to enter "Company history" into their equation (I'm convinced Ruger is not interested in doing that). Chrysler comes out with the PT Cruiser and it reminds a bunch of those who bought them of "yesteryear". And I can't begin to even count how many companies have built products replicating items of yesteryear...How about the "classic" series KitchenAid mixers that are out there...That company has probably sold millions of them...wonder how many of your wives have asked for one of those over the years???
I'm not a S&W collector, but I wouldn't mind having a few of their CCH "throwback" models in my collection!
Selling your history should be in every company's teachings in Business 101 class! Hey, its all about making $ and they might as well take their fair share of it!
Looks like its up to us lowly "collectors" to sell those .41 flattops for them!!!
Chet15
 
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Messages
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chet15":js2dd2sf said:
caryc":js2dd2sf said:
Is Ruger a successful company?

Yes.
And I like $ too (sorry, just couldn't say one syllable over something I am very passionate about).
Chet15

Sorry, but I don't think the collector market is large enough to change Ruger's marketing strategy. Collectors can be very passionate but I don't think they will keep Ruger in business.

Of course this is just my opinion.

One more thing......if I had the money I'd be a collector too. :mrgreen:
 

I_Like_Pie

Blackhawk
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Messages
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Chattanooga, TN
Never underestimate the value of "word of mouth" advertising

I hope that they continue to do stuff like this....makes Ruger collectors very happy down the road a few years.
 

BlkHawk73

Hunter
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Aggie01":1l5gurdu said:
What barrel length? I'm having a couple custom .41's built, and this might save me some work on one of them.

The model # has 'em at 6 1/2".
 

CraigC

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caryc":226w1ja3 said:
Is Ruger a successful company?.....I say "Leave Ruger alone and let them continue on with the successful business that they now have. Arm chair quarterbacks are not going to improve their business.
I couldn't agree more! I'm still baffled by all the negativity EVERY SINGLE TIME a gunmaker comes out with a new offering. It's always, "they should've done this, they should've done that, oh I wish they made done this differently or what a stupid idea, it'll be gone in six months", blah, blah, blah, ad nauseum. What gets me is how much pissing and moaning there is on The Ruger Forum about new guns that RUGER builds. God, step back for five minutes and listen to yourselves!!!

Ruger is one of the most successful firearms manufacturers ever. They have turned a profit every year they've been in business. Their friggin' stock is worth twice what it was before the last SHOT Show. You might think, for just a second, that they might, just might know what the hell they're doing???????
 
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CraigC":3dt0jktn said:
caryc":3dt0jktn said:
Is Ruger a successful company?.....I say "Leave Ruger alone and let them continue on with the successful business that they now have. Arm chair quarterbacks are not going to improve their business.
I couldn't agree more! I'm still baffled by all the negativity EVERY SINGLE TIME a gunmaker comes out with a new offering. It's always, "they should've done this, they should've done that, oh I wish they made done this differently or what a stupid idea, it'll be gone in six months", blah, blah, blah, ad nauseum. What gets me is how much pissing and moaning there is on The Ruger Forum about new guns that RUGER builds. God, step back for five minutes and listen to yourselves!!!

Ruger is one of the most successful firearms manufacturers ever. They have turned a profit every year they've been in business. Their friggin' stock is worth twice what it was before the last SHOT Show. You might think, for just a second, that they might, just might know what the hell they're doing???????

AMEN !!!!!!! And to think they're doing that with America's economy going to hell. Again, someone there knows what they're doing.
 

chet15

Hawkeye
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Some of you guys think I'm bitching, but I'm not.
You're not getting it. You say "why should Ruger waste their time by making limited production runs when they could be making something that they can sell by the tens of thousands". So then why a .41 flattop that Ruger or the distributor (entities who both depend on gun sales)?
We'll probably put a .41 flattop away ourselves as well, because with nary a word from Ruger about their availability or even the distributor (who both make a living by selling guns!!!), these things are going to be RARE RARE RARE!
No, I'm not bitching at all, because one collectors gain is the Ruger company's loss.
Sure, they could be making thousands of these if they spread the word around a little, but why tell anybody???
And I'm counting on all the RF members not to tell anybody about this one either, that way Ruger won't be making them by the thousands so they can reap big dividends for their stockholders.
Oh yes, I'm told today that the distributor still has 23 of the 40 (yes only 40) that they'd received about two weeks ago. Its amazing that such an item can be kept so quiet that this many guns would be available at a big distributor two weeks after they received them! So as soon as they're gone, don't ask Williams to make any more...that way we'll guarantee a big collector price for them down the road!
See what I'm saying??? Is Ruger not missing an opportunity?
But don't tell them!
Chet15
 
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