Don Lovel
Hunter
I would think this might be a handy thing to know for SHTF
Make 44 projectiles out of 40 s&w brass
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Enigma
Hunter
It really isn't difficult, and requires a minimum of equipment. You can also make .45 projectiles, but it requires a sturdy press and bench. The resulting bullets aren't pretty, and they don't look like Hornady XTPs or Speer Gold Dots (unless you invest in swage dies), but it's certainly doable. Look on YouTube.
contender
Ruger Guru
I watched the video.
I see several issues with using reversed .40 S&W cases, with lead inside, as the actual bullet.
First, his test,, he should have used (3) separate targets, to assure a clean study of bullet impacts & holes.
The lead is heavier than the brass case, and as such, his keyholing wasn't a surprise. Next, the lead core separating from the case,, unless there is a bond of some form, that will happen.
Now,, on to actual jacketed bullet making by using .40 S&W cases into actual bullets.
Swaging.
I have a couple of sets of custom dies,, by BT Sniper, to where I can turn .9mm cases into jackets for a .40 S&W/.10mm actual bullet. And I have a set where I can turn .40 S&W cases into .44 mag bullets.
The process isn't terribly hard, but you start with annealing the brass cases to soften them to where you can easily reform them into the shape & size you need.
Next, you can either buy lead wire & cut cores, or cast lead bullets to be used as the core.
Insert the lead core into a softened case, and form it in one die, and if a specific nose profile is desired, a second die is necessary.
Some folks do it a bit differently.
The put a lead core in an empty case, and heat them up until the lead melts easily, and fills the case. By doing this with the case mouth sitting upright, no lead spills or whatever. (Think; Cast iron skillet, over a good deep fryer cooker to where the temp of about 700 degrees can be achieved.) That anneals the brass AND fills the case completely.
I MUCH prefer to make my .44 bullets and my .40 cal bullets by swaging than thinking it's easy & ok to put a lead core in a case, reverse it, and load it.
BT Sniper's dies are not cheap. And to get the "ejector" adds to the expense. BUT,, if I need to make jacketed bullets,, this is the way to go. I was gifted my first die, the .9mm to .40 cal bullets by Miss Penny. Later on, I found a seller who had the auto ejector, the .40 cases to .44 mag bullet die, AND the nose profile die that mimics the Hornady XTP bullet all for a LOT cheaper than buying from BT Sniper. The nose profile die can be used with both calibers.
Once the bullets are formed,, they look a little funny, but once loaded,, nobody sees the rim of the brass case. They then look "normal."
I also have a cannalure tool to put a crimp ring on them if I desire one.
I see several issues with using reversed .40 S&W cases, with lead inside, as the actual bullet.
First, his test,, he should have used (3) separate targets, to assure a clean study of bullet impacts & holes.
The lead is heavier than the brass case, and as such, his keyholing wasn't a surprise. Next, the lead core separating from the case,, unless there is a bond of some form, that will happen.
Now,, on to actual jacketed bullet making by using .40 S&W cases into actual bullets.
Swaging.
I have a couple of sets of custom dies,, by BT Sniper, to where I can turn .9mm cases into jackets for a .40 S&W/.10mm actual bullet. And I have a set where I can turn .40 S&W cases into .44 mag bullets.
The process isn't terribly hard, but you start with annealing the brass cases to soften them to where you can easily reform them into the shape & size you need.
Next, you can either buy lead wire & cut cores, or cast lead bullets to be used as the core.
Insert the lead core into a softened case, and form it in one die, and if a specific nose profile is desired, a second die is necessary.
Some folks do it a bit differently.
The put a lead core in an empty case, and heat them up until the lead melts easily, and fills the case. By doing this with the case mouth sitting upright, no lead spills or whatever. (Think; Cast iron skillet, over a good deep fryer cooker to where the temp of about 700 degrees can be achieved.) That anneals the brass AND fills the case completely.
I MUCH prefer to make my .44 bullets and my .40 cal bullets by swaging than thinking it's easy & ok to put a lead core in a case, reverse it, and load it.
BT Sniper's dies are not cheap. And to get the "ejector" adds to the expense. BUT,, if I need to make jacketed bullets,, this is the way to go. I was gifted my first die, the .9mm to .40 cal bullets by Miss Penny. Later on, I found a seller who had the auto ejector, the .40 cases to .44 mag bullet die, AND the nose profile die that mimics the Hornady XTP bullet all for a LOT cheaper than buying from BT Sniper. The nose profile die can be used with both calibers.
Once the bullets are formed,, they look a little funny, but once loaded,, nobody sees the rim of the brass case. They then look "normal."
I also have a cannalure tool to put a crimp ring on them if I desire one.
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Maybe you could demonstrate this weekend? I have a 20 ton press so I can really give it a squeeze. My idea would be to melt the lead into the case, swage a hollow into the lead and "roll crimp" the brass over into the hollow in the lead. I figure the swaging the hollow would swell the case to the full diameter needed.
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jgt
Buckeye
I have three type of dies sets. One is an old C-H die for half jacketed swaged bullets. One is a BT sniper die set. And the third is a Larry Blackmon set.
With the Blackmon set I use a core mold and cast a core. Then swag the core. Next I seat the core into the jacket. I use j-4 jackets. Then form the nose.
The BT sniper die I trim the 40 S&W case to proper length. Anneal the case. Drop in my cast core and seat it and form the nose in one operation. Then cannalure the case/jacket in two places to help bond the bullet to the case/jacket.
The C-H die is one that takes a half jacket and cast core, it swages them together while forming a hollow point or swc nose. This process is done with the nose down and the base up when going into the die mounted in a standard loading press. This die has a built in ejection lever on the die.
In a situation where I could not get to my dies but had access to a loading press and some reloading dies. I would take a 40 S&W case. Trim it to desired length. Use some soldering flux and drop in a cast bullet or cast core and heat it to melting temp. When cooled, I would use a rifle sizing die like a .243 or so and run the case into it until I had the proper ogive to my satisfaction. It might not be pretty but I bet it would work better then the one on youtube. I would need the ram from a lee bullet sizing die to push the case/jacket & bullet combination up into the rifle sizing die. This operation would require the same lube all the other operations would require. and it would take some type of dowel to push the bullet back out of the die. This operation is just for a situation where no other way was available and I needed to make some type of projectile. I would other wise just use a cast bullet powder coated and be done with it.
With the Blackmon set I use a core mold and cast a core. Then swag the core. Next I seat the core into the jacket. I use j-4 jackets. Then form the nose.
The BT sniper die I trim the 40 S&W case to proper length. Anneal the case. Drop in my cast core and seat it and form the nose in one operation. Then cannalure the case/jacket in two places to help bond the bullet to the case/jacket.
The C-H die is one that takes a half jacket and cast core, it swages them together while forming a hollow point or swc nose. This process is done with the nose down and the base up when going into the die mounted in a standard loading press. This die has a built in ejection lever on the die.
In a situation where I could not get to my dies but had access to a loading press and some reloading dies. I would take a 40 S&W case. Trim it to desired length. Use some soldering flux and drop in a cast bullet or cast core and heat it to melting temp. When cooled, I would use a rifle sizing die like a .243 or so and run the case into it until I had the proper ogive to my satisfaction. It might not be pretty but I bet it would work better then the one on youtube. I would need the ram from a lee bullet sizing die to push the case/jacket & bullet combination up into the rifle sizing die. This operation would require the same lube all the other operations would require. and it would take some type of dowel to push the bullet back out of the die. This operation is just for a situation where no other way was available and I needed to make some type of projectile. I would other wise just use a cast bullet powder coated and be done with it.
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contender
Ruger Guru
Hvymax, I can show you some of the process this weekend.
jgt is doing very similar stuff.
When making the jacketed swaged bullets,, I usually cast a lead bullet that will easily fit into a case. Like a 9mm bullet, and then insert it in the .40 cal case. As noted,, you can use a little solder to assist in the bonding if desired. Heat the whole thing to 700 degrees,, allowing the lead to melt, and the solder to bond things. And it anneals the case.
I don't trim my .40 cal cases,, or my .9mm cases,, as the nose forming die makes it un-necessary. But some folks do, when working with different dies or towards a certain profile or weight.
jgt is doing very similar stuff.
When making the jacketed swaged bullets,, I usually cast a lead bullet that will easily fit into a case. Like a 9mm bullet, and then insert it in the .40 cal case. As noted,, you can use a little solder to assist in the bonding if desired. Heat the whole thing to 700 degrees,, allowing the lead to melt, and the solder to bond things. And it anneals the case.
I don't trim my .40 cal cases,, or my .9mm cases,, as the nose forming die makes it un-necessary. But some folks do, when working with different dies or towards a certain profile or weight.
Enigma
Hunter
Agreed; the method used on YT is not the preferred or accepted method. I just ran a quick search and then linked to the one resulting video that came up. It can be done in a similar method to what Contender uses with swage dies using a minimum of equipment. The bullets are rather blunt nosed, but one additional die can solve that issue.
Here is a better method, although I don't see the need for the gas checks he seats over the meplat of the finished bullet:
And this shows him making .45 ACP bullets out of .40 S&W brass:
That's kinda what I was thinking. I have molds in a lot of these calibers. I've never seen it done but 50 years of messing with metal gives me ideas. I figured torch melting the lead in the case would anneal it and doing a 2 stage hot press could roll the jacket into the hollow cavity bonding it. I'm thinking a solid top die and 2 piece bottom dies with handles like a bullet mold that fits in a frame so I can get them out once pressed. At least that's what the voices in my head came up with.
contender
Ruger Guru
Yes, some folks do a version with a gas check over the nose, to give them more of a "solid" design.
Let me show you some stuff this weekend so you'll understand a bit more how it's done, and how easy it can be if using the proper dies.
Let me show you some stuff this weekend so you'll understand a bit more how it's done, and how easy it can be if using the proper dies.
Wow that gives me a whole new perspective. I can cast pure lead hollow points, have a pointed pin to replace the decapping pin in my 357 Sig die to seat/ swage the case to finished diameter and start the ogive and then add another die to finish the ogive/ roll the brass into the cavity. Maybe someone already makes something and I won't have to get all mad scientist diemaker on the lathe. This is so much easier than what I was envisioning. I was going to make multistation dieplates with shafts and springs kinda like the metal brakes they make for on a press. That way the compressed core could swell the case as needed. I would fab the lower dies with handles like bullet molds that fit into the lower frame to keep them closed while forming the finished diameter. I was thinking I would run them like a progressive moving through the lower frame on the 20ton press. Now that I think about it I could just move a single lower die through the 3 stations but again this seems so much easier.
jgt
Buckeye
You can go as McIver or technical as you like as long as you stick to some basic frame work. The more swaged and precise your core is the better. Weigh the core and jacket material together beforehand to get the precise bullet weight you want. Then seat that core into the case with enough force to fill the case/jacket with no voids. After that is done you can be creative with the ogive and meplat for a swc or hp nose. Some people use a grade 8 bolt to make a die that scores the ogive and makes petals that open up when the bullet hits the target. I don't. But I have seen it done. If pure lead opens up in too soon you can add some wheel weights to the mix when casting the core.
If you are using the McIver method with a rifle die for forming the ogive you will need to size the finished bullet in a lee 44 push through bullet sizing die with some good lube, because the case will expand when you seat the core and form the ogive when it is not in a core seating or nose forming die.
If you are using the McIver method with a rifle die for forming the ogive you will need to size the finished bullet in a lee 44 push through bullet sizing die with some good lube, because the case will expand when you seat the core and form the ogive when it is not in a core seating or nose forming die.
Yeah I was going to have the bottom die at the finished diameter so it could swell to the finished size. In the one video they pressed a 40 cal bullet into the case which should be snug by itself. Now I'm thinking I can use my 357 Sig die with a special replacement for the decapping pin to form everything.
Enigma
Hunter
You can also trim the brass to the appropriate length for your finished bullet before you begin swaging. That eliminates/minimizes the need to futz with the nose when you're finished.
BTSniper from the Cast Boolits forum can fix you up with the dies needed to make factory-looking bullets from .40 S&W brass. A point forming die ($550) and a star crimp die ($250) is all that you would need. Or, the point form die alone can make perfectly serviceable JHP bullets.
44 Cal Dies and Options
Multi Caliber Star Crimp Dies
BTSniper from the Cast Boolits forum can fix you up with the dies needed to make factory-looking bullets from .40 S&W brass. A point forming die ($550) and a star crimp die ($250) is all that you would need. Or, the point form die alone can make perfectly serviceable JHP bullets.
44 Cal Dies and Options
Multi Caliber Star Crimp Dies
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