Looking for a rust proof finish for concealed carry.

[themousethatroared]

Concealed carry wasn't a thing when I first needed something for protection. I needed something that would raise the ante on a .38 Special, and ended up with a P89 that was "carried" in a desk, a car, and on a night stand. My budget was black / blued finish. De-chroming, stealth, and black Teflon were pretty big around that time.
I picked up some other P-Series pistols since then, all in stainless, and when concealed carry became legal, I was kind of surprised that Ruger had completely abandoned all that nice stainless for blued everything. Now I find myself with a plastic handled thing and all the rest of it rusts. Well, all the parts that don't get rubbed to bare steel by the Kydex plastic.

I had some LC9s magazines Ceracoted. They turned out great, until I looked at the inside, where the coating guy assured me they couldn't coat, because the equipment won't spray in that narrow a space. Seems like it would be important to keep the rust off the part the rounds slide up, and that they might have said something about that before taking my order. I kind of wondered how they did firing pin cavities when they coat slides. Meanwhile, my blued Mec-Gar magazines for the P94 are starting to rust.

I found something called NT7, which sounds great, and also very expensive.

I'm down to considering nickel plating. I'm going to order a couple of the Mec-Gar magazines as a test and see how they do. Then look for someplace to do a couple LC9s magazines. If anyone has any suggestions of plating places, I'd like to hear them.

Meanwhile, I'm getting this stupid idea looking at some of the websites doing matte finish nickel, of doing the slide and steel pieces of the LC9s and making it look like a mini-KP. I'll guess the revolver crowd might have more experience with nickel plate on a firearm. Is there any down side?

 

[cee_Kamp]

My Girlfriend had the slide and small parts/controls Electroless Nickel plated on her old school SIG P226.
The plating process we selected for the SIG was CP II, which is Teflon infused Nickel.
It is one of the older German manufactured pistols with a stamped/folded carbon steel slide.
The slide prior to plating was prone to rusting.

Modern Electroless Nickel plating generally is robust & tough, plating deposition is an auto-catalytic chemical reaction, no electricity used in the plating process.
Shiny Bumper Chrome look Nickel plating is a electro-chemical plating process, Electroplating, and electricity is used in the plating process.
Shiny Nickel plating can peel and discolor from common gun cleaning solvents.

There is no "downside" having firearm steel parts Electroless Nickel plated on a mass produced firearm with liberal tolerances.
Something "match grade" with minimum tolerances, it could be an issue with plating thickness stack-up.
LC9s? Plate it to your hearts content.

Due to recommendations on another Forum, she sent it to Cummings Custom Refinishing. https://www.ccrrefinishing.com/index.html
The quality of the work is outstanding and rust hasn't been a problem since it was plated.
They get a A+ for the work they do.
It is my understanding that the business is family run.
The husband does the refinishing & plating, and the wife runs the office, billing, and communications.
We found the communications to be lacking.
If you aren't in a hurry and don't mind waiting maybe twice as long as the quoted time, and not having communications, they do nice work.

 

[blume357]

I carried a Ruger LC9s also for a while.... and rust was the reason I stopped... both the magazines and pistol rusted.... old fat guy in the summer was the real problem... but the interesting thing is I switched to a stainless Sig with regular steel magazines and these magazines don't rust....

 

[Mobuck]

The Taurus G2C I carry has what I think is called 'Tennifer' coating on the slide that resembles 'brushed' stainless. Years of carrying in a KYDEX holster and it shows very little wear, no corrosion, and no discoloring.

 

[themousethatroared]

Tennifer was an OEM finish and is going to be proprietary to Glock. It looks like it has a kind of brushed texture.

Mahovski's Hard Chrome looks pretty good. Not sure what the texture does on the rails and around the hammer, where there is metal to metal. The Electroless Nickel sounds like it will cover better in grooves and areas that electroplating would be a problem, but not a whole lot of photos of that one on the page. I'm waiting for a response from them.

The CCR CPII looks a little brighter than I was thinking, but I like the description and comments on service and quality. It's pricey. I hadn't thought of how long it will take, and I'm starting this at the wrong time of the year. I'll have to cobble together something from spare parts for the summer season.

I'm wondering how well this will adhere to the barrel bore.

 

[cee_Kamp]

CP II is not plated in the bore. External surfaces only. I would "guess" that they insert plugs at the chamber & muzzle when the barrel is CP II plated.

 

[hittman]

I’d use whatever Ruger puts on the LCRs. Mine been in a leather holster 10 years and not a bad mark on it.

 

[LDB]

Hard chrome is probably near, if not at, the top of the list. And it sure looks good.

 

[s4s4u]

I'm wondering how well this will adhere to the barrel bore.

Curious as to why.

 

[themousethatroared]

Curious as to why.

Well, for a second I thought I could end up with a chrome lined barrel. From what cee_Kamp commented, it looks like that's not going to happen.
The thickness is supposed to be .000X, which should be about like normal wear from a couple thousand rounds. Must be the adhesion. Could be the chamber, just enough to mess up shell extraction...

The P-Series barrels are stainless, and indestructible. The good Russian and Chinese military rifles are chrome lined. The modern sporting rifles are at least nitrided. The striker fired Ruger stuff is blued. Chrome lining would be an upgrade.

 

[cee_Kamp]

Hard chrome IS robust enough for bore interior surfaces. But since it is an Electroplating process, it requires an electrode inside the barrel for the plating process to happen. Bore & chamber tolerances are typically adjusted to account for the plating thickness deposition.
For firearms duty, the maximum recommended hard chrome deposition thickness is 0.001" and inside a "hole", the diameter will be reduced by 0.002" which is the reason most aftermarket plating businesses usually won't hard chrome chambers/inside barrels.

Electroless nickel isn't tough/strong enough for inside bore duty.
It's also usually plated at a much thinner deposition thickness compared to hard chrome.

Many years ago, I stumbled on a used Ruger Red Label 12 gauge shotgun that somebody must have stored in a wet case by accident.
It had some significant rust & pitting on the bottom barrel outside surface near the muzzle.
Shotguns run at much lower pressures than rifles and handguns, so when I could purchase that shotgun at bargain basement cost,
I sanded out the rust and pitting on that bottom barrel myself.
When done sanding, I was faced with having the double barrel set re-blued or plated.

The machine shop business I worked for at that time had an "Outsourcing Manager" that arranged all outside vendor work.
I asked him to ask around and see if any of the plating vendors he routinely spoke with would hard chrome that double barrel set.
He did find a semi-local family owned plating vendor that would do the job.
I had that Red Label double barrel set hard chromed to a thickness of 0.001" and it turned out perfectly.

I did have to lightly stone the barrel locking lug location to get the action to close after it was plated.
The bores were plugged at both ends when it was plating, there is no hard chrome inside either bore/chamber.
External surfaces only.
That Red Label is a Gen 1 (I think) with a stainless steel receiver.
The only items still blued on the Red Label is the trigger guard, the action release lever, the safety, and the front stock release tab.

Oh, and it cost me nothing for that Red Label plating job!

 

[themousethatroared]

Hard chrome IS robust enough for bore interior surfaces. But since it is an Electroplating process, it requires an electrode inside the barrel for the plating process to happen. Bore & chamber tolerances are typically adjusted to account for the plating thickness deposition.
For firearms duty, the maximum recommended hard chrome deposition thickness is 0.001" and inside a "hole", the diameter will be reduced by 0.002" which is the reason most aftermarket plating businesses usually won't hard chrome chambers/inside barrels.

Electroless nickel isn't tough/strong enough for inside bore duty.
It's also usually plated at a much thinner deposition thickness compared to hard chrome.

Many years ago, I stumbled on a used Ruger Red Label 12 gauge shotgun that somebody must have stored in a wet case by accident.
It had some significant rust & pitting on the bottom barrel outside surface near the muzzle.
Shotguns run at much lower pressures than rifles and handguns, so when I could purchase that shotgun at bargain basement cost,
I sanded out the rust and pitting on that bottom barrel myself.
When done sanding, I was faced with having the double barrel set re-blued or plated.

The machine shop business I worked for at that time had an "Outsourcing Manager" that arranged all outside vendor work.
I asked him to ask around and see if any of the plating vendors he routinely spoke with would hard chrome that double barrel set.
He did find a semi-local family owned plating vendor that would do the job.
I had that Red Label double barrel set hard chromed to a thickness of 0.001" and it turned out perfectly.

I did have to lightly stone the barrel locking lug location to get the action to close after it was plated.
The bores were plugged at both ends when it was plating, there is no hard chrome inside either bore/chamber.
External surfaces only.
That Red Label is a Gen 1 (I think) with a stainless steel receiver.
The only items still blued on the Red Label is the trigger guard, the action release lever, the safety, and the front stock release tab.

Oh, and it cost me nothing for that Red Label plating job!

I ran a quick search earlier and it kicked out Greystone and Pioneer as doing chrome lining, and they cite .0004 and .0002 inch plating thicknesses. They sound more like commercial level for manufacturers, rather than job shops.

Nitriding would be possible on a small scale. I had some crankshafts done in the next state over many years ago, and they did rifle barrels. I'd have to look that up.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

APW/Cogan does hard chrome plating, along with a goodly amount of gunsmithing.

https://apwcogan.com/

 

[M118LR]

Just wondering how much firearms improvements would come to pass before even a standard blueing would wear out? Not to mention that many carry pistols are currently manufactured from synthetic parts nowadays, would the improvements out weigh the Finnish? My stainless PPK/S is still rust free, yet it has been replaced by a Springfield Hellcat in 9 mm NATO with a 15 round Mag at the same size. Is Finnish more relative than firearm improvements?

 

[LDB]

APW/Cogan does hard chrome plating, along with a goodly amount of gunsmithing.

https://apwcogan.com/

That's who did my Ruger. Exceptionally nice work. Definitely can recommend Cogan.

 

[cee_Kamp]

Back 20+ years ago, I stopped in at a small local gun, archery, & fishing tackle shop that I frequented often. They didn't ever have anything high end, working people stuff.
Down at the end of the regular long gun racks behind the counter, they had added a short rack for the more expensive stuff.
I went and looked in the new rack and there sat a Ruger Red Label 12 gauge shotgun. It looked really nice! Until I asked to hold it.
The right side of the lower barrel near the muzzle had some crudely applied cold bluing, attempting to cover a "patch" of rust and pitting. The "repair" looked horrible.
I'm guessing here, I suspect the shotgun was placed into a soft case that got wet on the inside and the previous owner didn't know the case was wet.

They were asking a obscene amount of money for the shotgun in the condition it was in. If the shotgun didn't have the damage and the crappy bluing repair, it would have been a decent price.
Over the course of that particular fall and winter, that shotgun sat in the rack.
By February, all the hunting seasons were done and it was a super mild winter. The big perch derby got cancelled due to thin ice on the reservoir and the store was starving.

Each time I stopped in the gun store, I offered $50 less for the Red Label than at my previous visit. I usually stopped in about every two weeks.
At the end of March, the store owner accepted my offer of $700 and he "ate" the sales tax.
He didn't have to sell me the shotgun at my price, but he needed the cash to keep his business alive.

At that time, the place where I worked had an "Outsourcing Manager" that handled any outside vendor work, including plating.
I asked the guy if any of the plating vendors would do a hard chrome plating job for that Ruger Red Label barrel set.
He found a small family owned plating business that would do the over/under shotgun barrel set.
I sanded out the rust and pitting at home, and then bead blasted the entire exterior surface of the barrel set and shipped it off to the plater.

The plater called me and asked what thickness I wanted for the hard chrome and after a little discussion we agreed on 0.001" and they did the job.
When the barrel set arrived back from the plater, it was flawless. I did have to lightly stone the barrel monoblock locking lug surface to get the barrel release lever centered again.

I asked the Office Manager after about a month how much I owed for the plating job and she told me she hadn't received a bill yet.
I asked again after another six weeks and she told me not to bother her. So I didn't. I never paid a dime for the plating job.

This Ruger Red Label isn't a Browning or Krieghoff, it's just a nice over/under 12 gauge with screw in choke tubes. A nice working shotgun.
The only blued parts remaining are the trigger guard, sliding safety/barrel selector button, barrel release lever, and the nice steel pistol grip cap. The receiver is stainless steel, my favorite.

Most double barrel shotguns have the barrels soldered into the monoblock at the breech end, and joined at the muzzle also with solder.
After hard chrome plating takes place, hydrogen atoms typically migrate into the steel and cause a condition called "Hydrogen Embrittlement" which in firearms can be deadly.
The formerly strong steel parts can easily fracture and explode/rupture.
Hydrogen Embrittlement is easy to correct. You bake the plated part in a lab oven for a period of time (hours) at 275 to 300 Fahrenheit and the hydrogen atoms are driven out of the steel parts.
The parts that have been properly treated for Hydrogen Embrittlement are just as strong as they were before being plated.

Back to soldered shotgun barrels. The baking for relieving of Hydrogen Embrittlement can weaken the solder joints where the barrels are joined together.
Fortunately, Ruger Red Label shotgun barrels are brazed together at the factory, not soldered together.

RL1 by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

RL2 by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

RL3 by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

RL4 by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

RL5 by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

RL6 by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

RL7 by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

RL8 by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

The "YELLOW" arrows point to the area of the lower barrel where the rust and pitting damage was formerly located.

RL8_1 by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

 

[ArizonaTea123]

Phosphate coating (phosphoric acid) has been used on M1 Garands, BAR's, O3 Springfield's, and bayonets for decades. Used on ship hulls, submarines, etc....

 

[ArizonaTea123]

Also tannic acid. Very cheap to apply.