Car Carry

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Another thread was drifting toward carrying in a vehicle. So to keep things straight I'm starting a thread on carrying while driving.

A little background. I arrived in Spain on December 29, 1974. At the time Francisco Franco was still alive and very much in charge. Most Spanish people were pretty well dispositioned to Americans, especially American military. But, there were several terrorist groups, chief among them the ETA (Euskadi Ta Askatasuna), that did not like Americans and were just as happy to kill us as the Spanish police or military. Or for that matter civilians, including women and children (entire families if they could).

American military personnel's private vehicles had a separate and unique letter and number sequence until a few years earlier. Someone decided we were easier to target, so they issued plates with the same sequencing. Then a year later put a bright red strip on the plates. If you look at the photo you can see just how unobtrusive the plates were. (sarcasm here).
Q8R5CRC.jpg

So that's the scene.

It's about a week maybe two later that I first began to carry concealed. The fire arm was a Llama Comanche .357 magnum with a 4" barrel. Think S&W Model 19 (hey I was a poor, married GI S&W's were out of my price range). This is also when I started to carry OWB cross draw. You can't see it in the photo because my bride is standing there blocking it. Yes that was sort of intentional, as we sent that photo home to our folks and really didn't want to have to explain why I was armed. Our mothers would have freaked, and my dad would have ask why it wasn't a 1911.

Initially I carried it Mexican style as left handed holsters just weren't to be had. I did get a local leatherworker to make me up a holster pretty quickly.

The why of cross draw was pretty simple. I knew I would travel in my car daily either to or from the base to our apartment. I wanted to be able to access the revolver with either hand. As it turned out it also put it into a position that my wife could access my handgun if necessary. My vehicle had separate lap and shoulder belts. I usually wore the lap belt under the holster. The shoulder bet didn't interfere with the firearm in the least. The only problem is that it required releasing two buckles instead of the way we do it now. So, I pretty much never wore the shoulder belt.

So, how and why do you carry while driving a vehicle?
 
State laws are going to dictate that in many States. In MS there are no restrictions in regard to being armed while motoring. Which means you can choose whatever suits you best, including having a firearm (handgun or rifle, etc.) laying openly on the seat beside you or clipped to the dash and so forth. Common sense should be applied to deter theft of course. I'll typically have 2 guns, one on my hip, and one in the cup holder or on the passenger seat. Both fully loaded. As a side note, I have had a few occasions in the past 25 years that I've had the car gun in my hand as a precaution. Once about 5 years ago while stopped at a light leaving WalMart, and hemmed in by traffic.

There are other things you can do to prevent or slow down entry into your car when stopped. Keeping the doors locked of course, but other things also. For example, if you're alone in some typical people movers, the passenger seat can be moved fully forward and the seat back tilted to obstruct entry. I think that in some parts of the country these days your choice, when shopping for a new vehicle, should include security considerations, not just creature comfort, style, or color.
 
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I've been using a crossdraw holster for years. Strong side carry tended to wear through seat covers often plus as I got older, my right shoulder became problematic and I couldn't draw from a strongside holster.
Cross draw is fairly discreet even w/o a cover garment plus one can simply cross hands/fore arms in front of the body with the shooting hand already on the pistol's grip. No swiping or flicking a cover garment out of the way that would attract attention prior to making the draw.
 
The pistol is carried AIWB. The pistol is right there in the front, easily accessible.
 
From years back before I was a cop I carried more casually. A glove on the dash in plain sight with a derringer tucked inside. And the 70s pickups with the soft door pockets that were relatively flat was a stainless chiefs special model 60. Great for putting your left hand on when someone approached and your right was on the steering wheel. Today well, lets say Im not advertising.
 
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The pistol in a locked case in the trunk, ammo locked in a separate case?? Seriously, here in New York State I'm not sure what the law on carrying in a car is. I very rarely carry, and when I do.....
 
The pistol in a locked case in the trunk, ammo locked in a separate case?? Seriously, here in New York State I'm not sure what the law on carrying in a car is. I very rarely carry, and when I do.....

You can, but: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/ny-gun-laws/
Yes, based upon the terms of a NYPL only. It is legal to transport a legal firearm through New York under Federal interstate transportation law 18 USC § 926A provided the handgun is unloaded, with neither the firearm nor any ammunition readily accessible from the passenger compartment. In the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment, the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. If you don't have a NYPL and happen to stop at a motel overnight, then you are in violation of the law and subject to arrest if found with a firearm.

Although a state license to carry a handgun is generally invalid in New York City, a license is valid if the firearm covered by the license:

  • Has been purchased from a licensed dealer within the city of New York and is being transported out of the city immediately from the dealer by the licensee in a locked container during a continuous and uninterrupted trip; or
  • Is being transported by the licensee in a locked container and the trip through the city of New York is continuous and uninterrupted.
[N.Y. Pen. Law § 400.00(6)(b)]
 
Here in Texas, the gun must be in a holster. Don't ask me why, because I dunno. A lot of folks take an inexpensive holster and screw it to either the console, dash, or steering column. When they get in the car, the gun goes into the 'car' holster; when they arrive at Point B, they reholster the gun on their person, and go about their business. Of course, a lot of people just leave a gun in their car all the time. Sneak thieves appreciate this very much - especially when they leave their cars unlocked, also. One night in my general area, thieves garnered 8 handguns and an AR-15, all from unlocked cars!
 
Here in Texas, the gun must be in a holster. Don't ask me why, because I dunno. A lot of folks take an inexpensive holster and screw it to either the console, dash, or steering column. When they get in the car, the gun goes into the 'car' holster; when they arrive at Point B, they reholster the gun on their person, and go about their business. Of course, a lot of people just leave a gun in their car all the time. Sneak thieves appreciate this very much - especially when they leave their cars unlocked, also. One night in my general area, thieves garnered 8 handguns and an AR-15, all from unlocked cars!
I just looked up TX gun laws. Y'all have an awful lot of restrictions for a supposed 'permitless carry' State. A lot more than MS. Starting with minimum age - 18 here.
 
Most important thing in a car is to remember that the whole thing is one or two layers of thin sheet metal, some cardboard, and a layer of carpeting or fabric. Any where that is not the engine or a structural beam is transparent to a bullet.......going in or going out.

SOB holster or anything past 3 O'clock position is supposed to be bad because you're sitting on it. I don't see anything covered by the seatbelt or against the buckle as any better. Appendix depends on gut overhang. If you do get the thing out, and you have to get out of the car, you need two more hands for the door handle and seat belt.
I ran out of solutions a long time ago. Just listing problems. I need to investigate this "car holster" thing of which @GrumpyOldMan speaks.

50 states and 50 sets of laws.
Around here, gas stations post slash signs for their buildings, so you're supposed to walk from the car to the building and back unarmed. That may extend to the entire property, like they did for masks during the great silliness, so getting out of the car to put the nozzle in and feed the credit card into the pump is the same exposure.
Traveling across states line, using Illinois as the example, because they're about the worst, you can have it in your car, but you can't take it with you when you get out of the car.

I remember the bad old days.
Open carry was supposedly legal, but if you did it, you got arrested.
Anywhere within the passenger compartment was concealed, and if you had a hatchback, and probably a station wagon also, then you were just screwed.
Now they have open carry banned in a lot of places. I expect the same ninnies screaming "You can't hide it" in the old days are now screaming "You can't show it".
 
I think it’d be difficult and cumbersome to get to my CCW while strapped in.

And I’m not a huge fan of unsecured (ie laying on seat, floor, or door space) handguns because if I get in a collision or even hit a big bump the guns might go flying all over the place.

So I usually have a dedicated car gun that can at least be in a console that I can get to very quickly while driving. And won’t bounce around if the car does.

A Taurus Public Defender (polymer) loaded with the Federal 000 buck load and a couple of colts works pretty well for this. And if I happen to leave it in the car and someone takes it, well, it’s a Taurus.
 
Most important thing in a car is to remember that the whole thing is one or two layers of thin sheet metal, some cardboard, and a layer of carpeting or fabric. Any where that is not the engine or a structural beam is transparent to a bullet.......going in or going out.

SOB holster or anything past 3 O'clock position is supposed to be bad because you're sitting on it. I don't see anything covered by the seatbelt or against the buckle as any better. Appendix depends on gut overhang. If you do get the thing out, and you have to get out of the car, you need two more hands for the door handle and seat belt.
I ran out of solutions a long time ago. Just listing problems. I need to investigate this "car holster" thing of which @GrumpyOldMan speaks.

50 states and 50 sets of laws.
Around here, gas stations post slash signs for their buildings, so you're supposed to walk from the car to the building and back unarmed. That may extend to the entire property, like they did for masks during the great silliness, so getting out of the car to put the nozzle in and feed the credit card into the pump is the same exposure.
Traveling across states line, using Illinois as the example, because they're about the worst, you can have it in your car, but you can't take it with you when you get out of the car.

I remember the bad old days.
Open carry was supposedly legal, but if you did it, you got arrested.
Anywhere within the passenger compartment was concealed, and if you had a hatchback, and probably a station wagon also, then you were just screwed.
Now they have open carry banned in a lot of places. I expect the same ninnies screaming "You can't hide it" in the old days are now screaming "You can't show it".
Somehow I got through a half century of carrying (much of that before ‘shall issue’) without any degree of difficulty from carrying.

So I don’t much obsess over technicalities or signs these days. Just be a good and courteous person in general and that solves most potential issues.
 
Most important thing in a car is to remember that the whole thing is one or two layers of thin sheet metal, some cardboard, and a layer of carpeting or fabric. Any where that is not the engine or a structural beam is transparent to a bullet.......going in or going out.

SOB holster or anything past 3 O'clock position is supposed to be bad because you're sitting on it. I don't see anything covered by the seatbelt or against the buckle as any better. Appendix depends on gut overhang. If you do get the thing out, and you have to get out of the car, you need two more hands for the door handle and seat belt.
I ran out of solutions a long time ago. Just listing problems. I need to investigate this "car holster" thing of which @GrumpyOldMan speaks.

50 states and 50 sets of laws.
Around here, gas stations post slash signs for their buildings, so you're supposed to walk from the car to the building and back unarmed. That may extend to the entire property, like they did for masks during the great silliness, so getting out of the car to put the nozzle in and feed the credit card into the pump is the same exposure.
Traveling across states line, using Illinois as the example, because they're about the worst, you can have it in your car, but you can't take it with you when you get out of the car.

I remember the bad old days.
Open carry was supposedly legal, but if you did it, you got arrested.
Anywhere within the passenger compartment was concealed, and if you had a hatchback, and probably a station wagon also, then you were just screwed.
Now they have open carry banned in a lot of places. I expect the same ninnies screaming "You can't hide it" in the old days are now screaming "You can't show it".
Haven't seen a ninnie around here in several years.
 
Jeepnik... from the picture and your description it seems you are a lefty?
either way, good story... from the old days....
and the good news is Francisco Franco is still dead. (that's a Saturday Night Live joke from way back)
Yea, I've mention many times I'm a southpaw. And you want to talk about a hairy time, when Franco died they had aircraft on the runway to take out our families. We also figured out that there were likely more privately owned firearms than there were in the base armory.
 
I bought my first handgun many years ago now, a Colt Trooper, after watching the LA riot video of the guy being pulled out of his truck and beaten.... I decided that if I came around a corner and drove into a situation like that and the rioters decided to do that to me the first 4 or 5 would truly regret it.... and the metal in the door frame was not going to be a problem for those jacketed 357 rounds....even though I'd probably just shoot through the window. I have now down graded... Glock 32 in 357 Sig.
 
AS I've mentioned before, I had some driving instruction while in Spain on how to deal with being surrounded and folks trying to pull you out of your vehicle. There is one solution that will pretty much always work. Skinny pedal to the floor.

A while back I got caught up in a street takeover. Without even thinking I swung around the stopped sheep and punched it through the intersection. I was not going to be stopped and waiting for someone else to decide how badly I'd get hurt.

This brings up another point. Those same instructions included always leaving yourself a way out. Even if it's a sidewalk, always have a way out. Fifty years later those habits are still practiced every time I drive.
 
I bought my first handgun many years ago now, a Colt Trooper, after watching the LA riot video of the guy being pulled out of his truck and beaten.... I decided that if I came around a corner and drove into a situation like that and the rioters decided to do that to me the first 4 or 5 would truly regret it.... and the metal in the door frame was not going to be a problem for those jacketed 357 rounds....even though I'd probably just shoot through the window. I have now down graded... Glock 32 in 357 Sig.

AS I've mentioned before, I had some driving instruction while in Spain on how to deal with being surrounded and folks trying to pull you out of your vehicle. There is one solution that will pretty much always work. Skinny pedal to the floor.

A while back I got caught up in a street takeover. Without even thinking I swung around the stopped sheep and punched it through the intersection. I was not going to be stopped and waiting for someone else to decide how badly I'd get hurt.

This brings up another point. Those same instructions included always leaving yourself a way out. Even if it's a sidewalk, always have a way out. Fifty years later those habits are still practiced every time I drive.
Yup.

Shoot or drive but don’t try to do both at the same time (assuming the same person). Usually if you’ve got maneuvering room around hard obstacles that a car can’t get through or over, driving is the better option.

No gun I have has more energy than my car.

If I don’t have much of a choice in driving then I’m kinda forced into shooting (ie blocked in traffic).

I’d prefer not to run over people but if I get mobbed the car is moving and if they’re smart they’ll get out of the way.
 
Yup.

Shoot or drive but don’t try to do both at the same time (assuming the same person). Usually if you’ve got maneuvering room around hard obstacles that a car can’t get through or over, driving is the better option.

No gun I have has more energy than my car.

If I don’t have much of a choice in driving then I’m kinda forced into shooting (ie blocked in traffic).

I’d prefer not to run over people but if I get mobbed the car is moving and if they’re smart they’ll get out of the way.
Another advantage I had in my case, the takeover folks were on motorcycles. Not once in my entire life have I seen a motorcycle win when colliding with a pickup. Though I would have been better served by my CJ.
 
I've always found it funny when on TV or the Movies they show the biker gang harassing some one in a car .. pulling up beside and in front and such... I really don't think most bikers are that dumb. Asphalt is hard and rough and road signs and trees are not much better.
 
"This brings up another point. Those same instructions included always leaving yourself a way out. Even if it's a sidewalk, always have a way out. Fifty years later those habits are still practiced every time I drive."
Absolutely correct. Pay attention to surroundings, traffic (foot and vehicle). Don't allow yourself to be cornered/hemmed in. Don't walk around staring at your stupid phone. Don't be in such a hurry that you forfeit personal safety.
Literally every time I go to town, I see people (mostly females) who would be easy targets for mugging/robbery. It usually doesn't happen around here due to the number of 'armed sheep dogs' that keep the wolves at bay.
 
FWIW, I tend to avoid large, leftist, riot- & crime-prone cities like the plague (which in some ways they are). As a result, I generally do not worry about needing a firearm while I'm stuck behind the steering wheel (maybe I should worry about it, I don't know, YMMV).

If I have a firearm in a vehicle, it's generally a carbine of some sort, stored out of sight, that I can access if I have a minute. That was the approach that I came up with for traveling through earthquake or hurricane country, obviously one size never fits all, etc., etc...
:)
 
My father always had his S&W 38 under his car or truck seat... for those that don't know; it has burned in the Grip... Korea 1950 Thru Hell... that revolver was strapped to his chest during the fight at the Choson Reservoir.... he was in the recon company and they were the last ones out... and held the rear. I have that hand gun and really want to figure out a way to donate it to the Marine Museum at Quantico.
 
My father always had his S&W 38 under his car or truck seat... for those that don't know; it has burned in the Grip... Korea 1950 Thru Hell... that revolver was strapped to his chest during the fight at the Choson Reservoir.... he was in the recon company and they were the last ones out... and held the rear. I have that hand gun and really want to figure out a way to donate it to the Marine Museum at Quantico.
What you have is technically a Artifact. Due to storage limits, they may not accept it. Here's the details on how to convince them it's of significant interest historically. All museums are selective in what they will accept, so be prepared to make a good case for your fathers pistol, including any documentation, pictures of your father in uniform, diary, etc., etc.

https://www.usmcmuseum.com/make-a-donation.html
 
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thanks GunnyGene... a goodly number of years back I did contact the curator of the Marine museum and he said to send it to them with any documentation I had and they would look it over.. but I put it off and never did it. This was when they actually had a display on the Choson Reservoir battle which they described as, " The most decisive battle the Marine Corps ever fought".
For those who have not previously read my dissertation on it... here is what I understand as of late... 1st Marine Division with some Army units off to the side... 12,000 Marines +... ventured way up into North Korea on a one lane desolate mountain road... lots of areal reconnoissance showed no enemy troop movement as well as nothing coming in from China... what they missed was the 100,000+ Chinese soldiers sneaking in by foot only at night.... Marines got attacked and surrounded in one night at the same time a weather system came in my father had washed in a river one day and the next day it was -30 degrees.... they had to clean their weapons with solvent to get all the oil off them so they would function. McAuther 'instructed' the commanding Marine general to surrender... he 'declined'.... they spent 10 days fighting their way out. The really shameful thing is the Chinese figure they 'won' that battle because they took the area... finial score... 1,000 marines killed... Chinese : 52,000

Choson Reservoir Revolver.jpg
 
Oh, and thanks for the link I think I will start the process of seeing if they will accept this.

I had an uncle there at the same time as your father. Jim Evans. He got a chapter in a book about the Forgotten War.

He's the guy with machine gun in this link. Click on the picture for the full chapter. A hard copy of the book is also available.

https://www2.sos.wa.gov/legacy/korea65/
 
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