GP100 - Forcing Cone

donkbet

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
2
Hey guys, I have a question regarding my new GP100. I posted on another forum the other day regarding some potential rust that was on the revolver. Pretty sure it's just dried up preservative oil though. I also posted a shot of the forcing cone and asked if it looked okay. This is my first revolver so I don't know much about things like forcing cones. I wasn't expecting the answers I got; things like "... looks like it was found in a parking lot" and "worst forcing cone I've ever seen." They said that there seems to be no angle to it. Also that the inside is "full of machining rings." I emailed the store about the situation and received a great reply. He said that to him, it looks normal and shouldn't be a problem, etc. He did say I can exchange it for a new one though.

Do you guys think I should exchange it? Or does the forcing cone look normal? Thanks!


 
There appears to be some build up on the face, possibly lead. It looks normal in your very good photos but when one has it in their hands ,one gets a better perspective.
I would clean and shoot it.
 
8) FWIW, it looks a heck of a lot like mine.

:D (Which shoots like a dream and is the most accurate handgun I have).

:roll: A gunsmith might polish it up a bit, cosmetically; but as tempting as it might seem, don't let a dremel tool anywhere near this gun or any other gun, ever!
 
Thanks for the quick replies. It's good to hear that it looks normal. I asked on yet another forum and got some responses, saying it looks to be normal. I was surprised when I asked on thehighroad about it and basically everyone said it looked like s**t and I should return it. I have a couple of questions. This is my first revolver so I don't know a lot about the technical details. What does the angle look like? Is it on the inside of the forcing cone? Should it be noticeably visible? Looking at it, I don't see any sort of angle anywhere. My other question is about the "machining rings." Do they look okay in these pics? I was told that these could lead to significant lead build up and be a real pain in the ***, and even dangerous.
 
Welcome to the Forum!
The forcing cone is a smooth cut, tapered angle are at the beginning of the barrel where the bullet is allowed to enter it properly. Generally, most have an angle cut between 5 degrees & 18 degrees. That is dependent on the manufacturer. In Ruger's case, many are cut to 5 degrees, so the angle is small & shallow.
Do this;
Clean the gun, then shoot it. Next, allow a person who is much more familiar with a revolver & a good shooter to shoot it. See how it shoots! Then you can have a more educated idea of what it's like.
 
I don't see anything I'd be concerned with. Take it to the range and shoot that bad boy.
 
It looks typical to me, and I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it. Go back to the store and compare it with the other one and you will likely see no noticeable difference between the two. Enjoy your fine revolver!
 
The barrel face has something on it that should scrape off. The forcing cone and the inside edge of the barrel looks like new. :D :D :D
 
Donkbet,
You're still having a problem in understanding the forcing cone.

Think of it as a funnel. Picture the funnel sideways, in profile. See the angle?

Its purpose is to channel a bullet into the barrel from the chamber.
The angle that everybody describing it on the other forum referred to is INSIDE THE BARREL, INSIDE THE CONE.

When a revolver's manufactured, there is a certain amount of looseness (or play) in the cylinder.
That's rotational (around) and front to back.

Both should be minimal.

The front to back movement in a direct line behind the barrel should be VERY minimal. If too much, it creates problems with endshake (too much fore & aft movement) which increases the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone (undesirable) and can, if it goes too far, cause headspacing problems which can affect ignition.

Although it's not the true definition, you can think of headspace as the distance between the back of the cartridge and the frame's breechface (the part of the frame where the firing pin comes through).

SOME endshake is tolerable, too much is not, and it's measured with flat feeler gauges inserted into the barrel/cylinder gap.

Rotational play when the cylinder's locked is built in.
The less the better, but it's there.

The forcing cone is designed to deal with that slight rotational play.

If the barrel had no forcing cone with an INTERNAL angle, and the entire barrel was the same internal diameter from front to end, a slight rotational play in the cylinder could leave a chamber just enough out of line with the barrel's rear end at the moment of ignition to cause the bullet to hit the barrel slightly off-center.

That can cause material to be shaved off the bullet and forcefully spit out to whichever side through the barrel/cylinder gap.
Besides being a hazard to anybody who might be standing to that side, it can affect accuracy.

A given bullet will generally provide (other factors aside) its best accuracy if it enters the rifling as fully centered in the bore as possible.

The forcing cone is an internal cone-shaped section of the barrel at the rear that forces a slightly off-center bullet into straight-on alignment at the point where it meets the rifling.

The forcing cone is a funnel that's larger than the rifled section of the bore.
The forcing cone is larger than the opening in the front of the cylinder's chambers.
The forcing cone is larger than the bullet diameter.

The forcing cone "catches" a slightly off-center bullet as it transitions from the chamber into the barrel, aligns it with the bore, and prevents bullet shaving.

To do all that, as with any funnel or cone, it has to have an INTERNAL TAPERING ANGLE cut into the rear of the barrel.

That enlarges the opening, and removes the rifling inside the barrel at that forcing cone area, since it removes material INSIDE the barrel there.

The forcing cone is cut radially, using a spinning tool something like a cone-shaped grinder tip on the end of a hand drill (doesn't actually use a hand drill, is not cut by hand, just trying to explain in terms you can visualize).
That's what can leave those radial toolmarks in your cone.

I'll say again here that those radial toolmarks should not be there, certainly should not be so pronounced.

I have other Rugers (and other brands) where they are not.

Your gun will function. It may quite easily shoot well.

Ideally, the cone should have a surface free of machining rings, and most revolvers I own & work with do.
Yours is NOT typical, in my experience.

Consider what happens when you fire the gun.
The bullet slams into the wall of that forcing cone at high speed.
It doesn't come out of the chamber correctly centered in the bore, as mentioned above.
It WILL strike the cone's internal wall, somewhere (varies), on every shot fired, and the bullet will be very abruptly "re-directed" into line with the bore.

That means the bullet nose with be sliding along that section of the cone wall, however much & however briefly, on its path into the rifling.

Each tooling ring is an abrasive "shoulder" that the bullet hits during its travel.
Each tooling ring has the ability to scrape off minute bits of bullet surface on every shot you fire.
(Properly-done smooth cone walls tend to not do this.)

That rough ring abrasion will tend to be less on copper-jacketed bullets, but it can be much more if you fire a lot of lead.

Lead deposition, depending on how soft or how hard your bullets are & how much you shoot, can build up slowly or it can build up rapidly.
It can, and as I told you on the other site, I have experienced it, build up to the point of actually plating the cone walls with lead. In a Ruger, with a very badly done forcing cone.
When that happens, accuracy is affected.

As far as the degree of angle goes, forcing cones vary in depth (how deep or how shallow, how far inside the barrel they extend) and in degree.

There are industry specs set, there are gauges you can buy to determine whether a given cone falls within accepted tolerances.

Yours most likely has one in spec, as far as the depth & angle go.
It's a deeper cone than one on a Ruger .44 Special I have here, but that doesn't mean either is necessarily off.

The degree of INTERNAL angle on a cone can be altered by a gunsmith (or anybody buying the reamer from a place like Brownells), depending on what an individual owner wants to shoot.

One angle works better for strictly lead, another angle works better as a compromise for jacketed and lead.
Can't tell in your photos, obviously, how deep or what angle your cone is, but when others on the other forum told you it does have a cone cut into your bore (very apparent by the lack of visible rifling), they were correct.

I'll repeat- I would not accept a gun with those machining rings.
I have had a cone cleaned up, I have another one that's also poorly cut, with machining rings appearing about halfway into the cone, that needs to be cleaned up. And it will be.

If you're happy with your gun, by all means keep it.
The irregular machining and file marks on the face of the cone are a separate issue.
If squared off to the bore correctly, they're only cosmetic.
If not, that can affect accuracy and possibly uneven gas escape through the barrel/cylinder gap.

Hopefully, now you understand forcing cones a little better.
Denis
 
Ruger did make at least one revolver with a forcing cone that leaded badly. I know because I bought it. Ruger refinished the cone for free and IIRC paid the shipping both ways. However, when originally cut the reamer wasn’t run in deep enough leaving a small step. I relate that old story not to criticize Ruger. All manufacturers need to redo a small percentage of their out put. Rather it’s to point out an error in how you are going about evaluating your new purchase. The only thing you accomplish by internet postings is demonstrating your photography skills. Go enjoy your new toy. In the unlikely event it has performance issues Ruger will fix it for free.
 
They made two.
I had the other one. :)

This is not a knock on Ruger, by the way.
Every maker puts out better examples & worse examples in various areas.
Denis
 
How does it shoot? If it shoots ok who cares if the outside of the shank is a bit dinged up?
 
That forcing cone looks like every other forcing cone I've ever seen come from Ruger. I would shoot it for a bit and see if the problems that Denis is saying are going to happen actually happen. You'll know pretty quick if your getting lead build up on the forcing cone. Before you let anything buildup to "plating" thickness you could send it in for repair.
 
I didn't say they are inevitable, and I did say it depends on what you shoot & how much.

It may or may not become a problem, the potential is there.
Denis
 

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