GP-100 cracked forcing cone

[PWK82]

A friend of mine has a problem with his Ruger. We both own GP100's chambered in 357 magnum. Mine works like a clockwork, but problem occured in his gun after shooting about 1700 rounds of regular, factory ammo (158gr) - forcing cone cracked. Revolver was kept very clean and maintained after every shooting. Moreover it was used for target shooting, not for dynamic or speed shooting.

What are your experiences with such cases? After studying forums we found that it happens sometimes and Ruger owners can count on assistance of manufacturer. Please advice.

I didn't expect it to happen in Ruger revolver. Sturdines was one of the criteria when it came to choose between manuacturers.

 

[NikA]

Looks like a call to Ruger CS is in order. To me, that is likely a material defect. (I'm think a batch of slightly off-spec steel, combined with the inherent tolerances in the firearm.)

There appears to be a lot of erosion present on the forcing cone of that barrel. How does the front of the cylinder look? What is the B/C gap? Does the forcing cone on your revolver look this eroded?

You say the ammo is regular factory 158gr. Any information available as to the manufacturer/loading?

 

[pisgah]

Either that barrel somehow got made of some severely out-of-spec steel, or it was more than any "1700 rounds of regular factory ammo" that went thru it...

Either way, sending it back to Ruger is called for.

 

[contender]

Welcome to the Forum!
A polite call to Ruger,,,, with a detailed explanation, as well as a copy of the pics, will get it taken care of. Ask for a pre-paid shipping label,, as they will pay for the shipping to them.
I agree it's likely just a bad defect in the metal,,, that somehow made it past the tests.
Ruger will take care of it.

 

[bayou5252]

Fortunately, I haven't experienced anything like this myself, but I've been reading quite a bit about forcing cone erosion and/or cracking. From what I've read, it appears these conditions are reported to have occurred when the ammunition is heavily charged with slower burning magnum powders such as 2400, H-110 or 296 together with using a lighter bullet of 125 grains or less. I don't recall reading any accounts, other than this one, where these forcing cone conditions occurred with the use of a 158 grain projectile in factory ammunition.

But if this turns out to be a defect in the metal, as other posters have postulated, then perhaps that would explain the occurrence of these conditions in this case.

 

[Sugar River]

Agree, that's a severely eroded forcing cone. Wonder if the rounds were loaded with Lil'Gun?

Sounds like English is not the OPs first language, and no location posted, shipping back for CS may be an issue.

 

[22/45 Fan]

From what I've read, it appears these conditions are reported to have occurred when the ammunition is heavily charged with slower burning magnum powders such as 2400, H-110 or 296 together with using a lighter bullet of 125 grains or less.

This problem first appeared when the police stopped using mild .38 Sp ammo for practice and had to use full power .357 125 gr ammo for both practice, qualifying and duty use. The most common police revolver at the time was a K-frame Smith and Wesson and they weren't sturdy enough for that amount of punishment. S&W's "cure" was the stronger L-frame revolver and the GP-100 is pretty much a similar size and strength.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

That should never happen with a GP-100. Look at the top strap, there is no cutting there. That barrel is bad.

Call Ruger, they will take care of it probably for nothing. Be sure to include a note about how it happened. Ask for a shipping label so you don't have to pay to send it back to them.

Welcome to the forum. Good luck, they will make it right.

 

[jn 41]

Ditto what Jimbo said. That looks like a metal problem. And Ruger will fix it.

 

[rugerguy]

do not be too quick to say "metal or material" issue, they would have to make an evaluation, as to the "whys and the wherefores", and to ME, that is more of an ammo ( and I'd bet bad, improper ?? loads) not a material, metals issue, BUT that being said, never know the factory just may do a "customer service", or a bit of "good will", just never know for certain till they actually see it and make a decision.............YES, if part of any "bad batch" of barrels, they most likely would cover it......
at least those are still available...... 8) :roll: :wink:

 

[woodperson]

Be glad you caught it before something worse happened.

 

[PWK82]

Welcome to the Forum!
A polite call to Ruger,,,, with a detailed explanation, as well as a copy of the pics, will get it taken care of. Ask for a pre-paid shipping label,, as they will pay for the shipping to them.
I agree it's likely just a bad defect in the metal,,, that somehow made it past the tests.
Ruger will take care of it.

Thank you for a friendly welcome and for all advices. I will try calling Ruger CS.

Someone noticed English is not my native language - yes, I live in Poland. There is an official representative of this company in Poland, but their after-sales service leaves much to be desired. I will try contacting Ruger directly. Maybe if the initiative comes from their side, local representative will be more helpful.

According to ammo - owner shot Sellier & Bellot and Fiocchi ammo, both 158 gr FMJ

In one of the replies I was asked about a forcing cone of my Ruger, here is how it looks like after few hundred rounds fired. I shot mainly 38 spec FMJ:

 

[22/45 Fan]

do not be too quick to say "metal or material" issue, they would have to make an evaluation, as to the "whys and the wherefores", and to ME, that is more of an ammo ( and I'd bet bad, improper ?? loads) not a material, metals issue,

I have to agree that it is likely a materials issue. The fact that the top strap is in like-new condition says the ammo wasn't too hot or abusive.

 

[PWK82]

Today I called Ruger. They told me to contact Exports division, as they are the ones to speak about such issues if they happen abroad and they are responsible for contact with distributors. Nobody picks up the phone there, but they answered my message sent from website. I was told to contact the local dealer in Poland.. The one that promised to import a new barrel from Ruger months ago and did not do it.

I sent another message asking them to start the initiative, maybe to contact distributor in Poland from their end. I hope that in such scenario distributor will be more willing to help.

Well... some things are easier when you live in US

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I am betting the distributor in Poland will have to send the gun back to the Ruger factory for repair. I guess when you are out of the country you can't send it back yourself. :shock:

 

[22/45 Fan]

Today I called Ruger....... I was told to contact the local dealer in Poland.....

Well, if you had noted you were in Poland right from the beginning, the advice you were given might have been more helpful. With no other information we assumed you were in the USA.

 

[PWK82]

Yes, I am aware that I can not ship it back by myself to US and distributors activity is required.

I mentioned I live in Poland in second post, had to do it in first. However in my opinion company's approach to the problem should be the same no matter where customer lives.

I wanted to find out:
- if Ruger helps in such cases, because without their good will to solve the problem, distributor will not take the gun for repairs
- if Ruger can contact distributor regarding our issue, because local distributor is reluctant when it comes to service and repairs.

 

[ADP3]

Welcome to the forum. I hope that you get the GP100 replaced soon. If you keep getting the run-around go to www.ruger-firearms.com. On the bottom of the page is the "Tell the CEO" link. Send the pictures and explain the problem to him if your local representatives keep stonewalling.

Best Regards,
ADP3

 

[22/45 Fan]

However in my opinion company's approach to the problem should be the same no matter where customer lives.

Firearms are a special case and international shipping is anything but straight-forward. If you were in the US, there is no question Ruger would make it good but your local distributor has to act as a go-between in this situation. If they contact Ruger, you should be helped properly but you have to get them to act.

And yes, you mentioned you live in Poland but that was after 10 other postings between your first and second one and only after someone noticed English wasn't your first language.

 

[contender]

ADP3 has an excellent point. If you can, try & contact Ruger directly. Tell them you are in Poland. AND tell them that your dealer/distributor is reluctant in helping in such matters. They have the ability to directly contact the dealer/distributors themselves and get it resolved.
They stand behind their products, no matter where they are sold.
So, if your call to them doesn't work, go the "Tell the CEO" route on the company webpage.

 

[98Redline]

The CS issues aside, the forcing cone on your friend's revolver looks really beat up and flame cut/eroded. That level of erosion is much worse than what should be expected from 1700 rounds of factory ammunition.

I would be really curious what powder S&B is using as that magnitude of erosion often associated with a high nitroglycerine content powder like LilGun. I have Rugers that have had thousands of rounds through them of heavy loads using H-110 and 2400 and the forcing cones don't show anywhere close to the erosion on your friend's gun has.

I wish your friend luck in getting his gun fixed up. Ruger is great about their CS here in the states and I hope that carries over to your side of the pond. One thing is for certain, I would be looking for a different ammo vendor. You should be able to shoot a Ruger for your entire life and not end up with a forcing cone that looks like that.

 

[mohavesam]

S&B had a reputation (here in the USA) a few years back, of occasional double-charges and extra-hot loadings. It was not uncommon to hear of bad lots in various calibers.

that aside, use the contact info on the Ruger website and reference this thread, asking the Ruger CS contact to review US-customer inputs. Unfortunately, I understand your distributor's reluctance due to US ITAR regulations on gun parts and bits. But I'd also have a heart-to-heart with your local contact. Guns are machines, and machines bugger and break. Use or abuse makes little difference, however I join the crowd that reserves judgement until the round count/quality effect is verified.

BTW, excellent pictures tell excellent detail! thanks.

 

[PWK82]

Firearms are a special case and international shipping is anything but straight-forward.

Believe me, I am aware of this. Local restrictions in Europe are even harsher. We can not send our guns with any shipper. For any services we have to drive our guns to often very remote places.

ADP3 has an excellent point. If you can, try & contact Ruger directly. Tell them you are in Poland. AND tell them that your dealer/distributor is reluctant in helping in such matters. They have the ability to directly contact the dealer/distributors themselves and get it resolved.

This is what I did. I contacted Ruger and asked to affect the local dealer in order to solve the problem. Still waiting for any news. In any case, no matter if the problem happens in USA or in Europe, Rugers acceptance and good will to solve the issue is required. In our situation it is a little more complicated as they need to gently push their dealer to act according to good standards.

They stand behind their products, no matter where they are sold.

...and this is what I hope for

So, if your call to them doesn't work, go the "Tell the CEO" route on the company webpage.

This is what I leave to myself as an ultimate weapon :twisted:

Unfortunately, I understand your distributor's reluctance due to US ITAR regulations on gun parts and bits. But I'd also have a heart-to-heart with your local contact.

Well, I understand problems with shipping gun parts, but I do not understand this reluctance of local dealer in PL. If they acknowlede the problem and promise to solve it, they should do it. If they don't, they should tell my coleague to go... play somewhere else. They chose the worst way - they agreed to help and then lost interest with his issue.

If any news come up I will post them to this thread. Thanks again for support and advice.

 

[P89DC]

Classic European customer service, nothing Ruger can do but fire the local distributor and try to find a better one. With all the various local country rules required to be navigated, between USA/ITAR and Polish laws/rules, the task of local distributor isn't easy. It's doubtful there's better local Polish distributors, it's been my considerable experience the new sales/distributor is usually worse than the one that was fired.

 

[kobs57]

Mine looks the same without the crack, gun is less than 2 years old shot a little over 1000 magnum loads with it. Just called a Ruger repair center and it seem if you reload your warranty is void even if you never went over max loads on the powder manufacture site, so if you happen to have the same problem, don't forget to say you only shoot factory made ammo. It doesn't pay to be honest.

 

[sasu]

I am in Europe, too. With a couple of decades experience with half a dozen warranty repairable American guns I now know there is no way to get them to warranty repairs. The only way is to have them fixed by a local gunsmith.

Thanks for this idiotism goes to all the communists and fascists of the world, or liberals as they are called in the U.S.

 

[bayou5252]

Mine looks the same without the crack, gun is less than 2 years old shot a little over 1000 magnum loads with it. Just called a Ruger repair center and it seem if you reload your warranty is void even if you never went over max loads on the powder manufacture site, so if you happen to have the same problem, don't forget to say you only shoot factory made ammo. It doesn't pay to be honest.

You're right, kbobs -

That's some serious throat erosion for only 1000 magnum rounds. If you don't mind my asking, what was the powder type, load and bullet weight were you typically loading and shooting through your revolver? You mentioned that you did not load over max recommended.

Thanks,

Bayou

 

[kobs57]

Since I bought the gun I shot a box of Winchester 110 gr., 500 38 special white box win. also and the rest were reloads made with a thick plated bullet called Campro (site says to use jacketed data with them) 158Gr. and 8.4Gr. of Hodgdon longshot following Hodgdon recipe except for the bullet. I weigh each powder load on a mechanical scale so there's no mistake. Bought a thousand of those 158 gr. and I.m just starting on a box of Zero bullets flat point 158 Gr. so I could've shot 50 of those.

 

[kobs57]

Here's a closer shot of it. It looks like some residue but what could look like metal if it is


Accuracy is not bad either with those bullets this is one of the target at 50 feet (orange part is 4 inches)

 

[David Bradshaw]

A friend of mine has a problem with his Ruger. We both own GP100's chambered in 357 magnum. Mine works like a clockwork, but problem occured in his gun after shooting about 1700 rounds of regular, factory ammo (158gr) - forcing cone cracked. Revolver was kept very clean and maintained after every shooting. Moreover it was used for target shooting, not for dynamic or speed shooting.

What are your experiences with such cases? After studying forums we found that it happens sometimes and Ruger owners can count on assistance of manufacturer. Please advice.

I didn't expect it to happen in Ruger revolver. Sturdines was one of the criteria when it came to choose between manuacturers.

*****

PWK82.... your excellent photos are a help. The term “forcing cone erosion” refers most often to BARREL FACE EROSION. Whichever we call it, your GP-100 exhibits advanced erosion. A good machinist can cut the BARREL SHOULDER a thickness of 2 or more threads----enough, when the barrel face is trimmed, to remove the crack from the BARREL STUB, or SHANK. This will also reduce the depth of the forcing cone. Your forcing cone is unnecessarily deep. Aside from degrading accuracy, an excessive forcing cone thins the wall at the barrel face. High pressure & heat stress the thin wall.

In addition, chamber-to-bore alignment may be offset at 4 o’clock, concentrating stress where the wall cracked.

It appears a particularly hot powder or high pressure loading was used in your GP-100. Unless the stainless barrel is unusually soft. The deep rivulets of erosion are evidence of repeated exposure to high combustion temperature and pressure. Many thousands of light loads may start a pattern of light, smooth erosion, but nothing that dramatic.

If you trim the barrel shoulder, TIME the THREADS. With proper THREAD TIMING the barrel should hand-tighten to about 10 or 12-degrees BTDC (Before Top Dead Center.) Lubricate the threads before tightening. Do not “torque” the barrel to an arbitrary “foot pounds” or “foot kilos.” Thread timing is critical to proper barrel fitting.

The slot in the BARREL SHROUD which protects the EJECTOR ROD may have to be lengthened to accommodate the ejector rod. Do not trim the ejector rod.
David Bradshaw