Go to Powder for 38 Special +P and 357 Magnum

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Not sure I understand what all the uproar about the dippers and scales and such is all about...

For all intents and purposes, ALL powder measures we normally use throw the charge BY VOLUME (exceptions being some of the digital units that dispense the actual charge?)

Anyway, the scale is used to determine what WEIGHT we're getting w/ any particular volume. 'Tis true, most fixed volume measures ARE set up to throw a bit light for safety as powder DOES vary from lot to lot. So ANY charts, slide rule tools, etc. will only give an approximation of what to expect from that measure. It's GOTTA be weighed to be sure...

Doesn't matter whether I'm using bushings in my shotshell machines, dippers from my Lee kit, or one of the couple of adjustable measures I have, I check what the measure throws against the scale. Then adjust as necessary (or possible) to get where I want to be. But whatever I throw from there is measured BY VOLUME (yeah, I check weigh 'em every so often to make sure all is still well.)

Seems a simple concept.

So I'm still confused by all this back and forth...

Rick C

 

[Rclark]

Seems a simple concept.

So I'm still confused by all this back and forth...

+1.

 

[RugerSP101]

Seems a simple concept.

So I'm still confused by all this back and forth...

Rick C

Agreed. There was actually no need for it whatsoever but someone seems obsessed with my use of both Lee dippers and Unique powder...

 

[Rclark]

RugerSP101, calm down. Sheeesh. From reading Bucks posts he is only trying to help. Having a simple balance scale (not that expensive) is very useful. Really that is all Buck is trying to say. I think you are a 'bit' over sensitive and read more into a post than you should! As long as you are not loading max and don't care about absolute consistency, your dipper method will work fine with a powder like Unique. If you are satisfied with it ... great! Otherwise a scale and a good powder measure would be a better option. Good investment so to speak!

 

[Yosemite Sam]

And I think you (RugerSP101) are a "bit" close to personal attacks and are way over the top on rudeness. Lighten up. People (were) trying to help.

If you don't want to lighten up, feel free to leave. We don't need that level of aggression around here. This is a nice forum. You want to act like that, there are many others where this immaturity might be more acceptable.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled discussion of "Go to Powder for .38 Special +P and .357 Magnum". Only. I apologize for my own participation of the hijacking into technique.

-- Sam (moderator)

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Off topic content deleted.

-- Sam

 

[xtpshooter]

I guess I will throw in my 2 cents...I have used the same for over 25 years, Bullseye for 38 special and 2400 for 357 magnum loads. I see no reason to change what works well for me.

 

[Lost Sheep]

(edited for clarity) The bigger problem with them (Lee Dippers) however, is that you are stuck with whatever charge a particular measure throws!

Customizing the volume of a Lee Dipper is not at all difficult.

Mashing some cut-to-fit cardboard, styrofoam, paper mache, a spitwad or a dribble of wood glue into the bottom of the dipper will reduce the volume of a too-large dipper very easily.

Good luck and best regards

 

[Lost Sheep]

I'm new to reloading and want to start in the right place.

Is there a go to powder that can be used for both 38 Special +P loads and 357 Magnum loads?

Having gone "off thread" in my prior post, I feel obliged to weigh in on the original question. (watch for the pun)


Unique is my "go to" powder for light and medium loads in all the 38/357 loads (as well as my 9mm, 44, 45 ACP and 454 Casull) for all my general purpose "plinking" loads. For special purposes, I go to special lengths to find the powder best suited for that one purpose. Teaching - Trail Boss. Full power, 2400 or H110.

My "go to" powder for new handloaders is "Trail Boss"

Originally designed for CASS (Cowboy Action Shooting Sports), it is a voluminous powder and produces medium pressures. Being high-volume (for the weight and power), it is very easy to see if you have neglected to charge a case (especially nice with tall cases like the 38 and 357) or given it a "short" charge. It is also very easy to see if you have double-charged a case.

By the time you have gone through a bottle of Trail Boss, you have gotten the mechanical techniques down and can move to a powder selected with more ballistically oriented criteria.

I am partial to Bullseye for economy, but it is a little scary because it is very energy dense. It is possible to produce an overcharge with just a small weight variation. So, I switched years ago to Unique.

For very heavy bullets and maximum powder, though, H110 gives a little less felt recoil (very subjective here) for the same velocity. I have not run exhaustive tests over a chronograph, so this conclusion is still tentative. H110 is not suitable for light loads.

You should know that over the past 36 years, I have only owned and shot fifty 38 special cases. All I load for since that first box of 38s is .357 Magnum. But I shoot a LOT of very light loads out of those cases.

I don't get the "crud ring" at the front of the 38 special cases. And I don't have to separate different sized cases.

Unique is my "go to" powder for light and medium loads in all the 38/357 loads (as well as my 9mm, 44, 45 ACP and 454 Casull) for all my general purpose "plinking" loads. For special purposes, I go to special lengths to find the powder best suited for that one purpose. Teaching - Trail Boss. Full power, 2400 or H110. And the search goes on.

Lost Sheep

 

[RugerSP101]

I'm new to reloading and want to start in the right place.

Is there a go to powder that can be used for both 38 Special +P loads and 357 Magnum loads?

For ease of use, both Unique and Universal seem to be good powders for both rounds.

Thats pretty much all I do load and I only use Unique because its pretty versatile. Even works for shotgun loads if and when I decide to go that route.
Another reason I chose Unique.
Myself, I prefer simplicity. The simpler something is, the less likely mistakes will occur.

 

[wolfsong]

Me, I use IMR 4227 for .357 hot loads (I happen to like obnoxious big boomers), and either Blue Dot or Bullseye for routine .357 & .38+p rounds. I WEIGH every charge, as I, too, enjoy having all the body parts God gave me. That, and I also expect and desire consistancy for obvious shooting reasons. I also hand load my rifle hunting rounds and, again, charging by weight is critical to consistant bullet performance. Perhaps my background and long career as a professional chef has ingrained in me my reliance of scales where & when applicable - I don't know. But suffice it to say that I agree with those who load by weight, not by volume. Some settling may occur, as it says on the side of the cereal box... Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.

 

[RugerSP101]

(I happen to like obnoxious big boomers)

I definitely gave those up a long time ago.
I like the gun to be manageable over going deaf and having to wrench my wrist back in place after a day at the range.

To each his own

 

[WESHOOT2]

I think it's smart for someone to understand their personal limitations.

 

[J Miller]

Well, OK, my "GO TO" powder for 38 SPCL +P is Unique. 5.0grains with any 158 to 173gr SWC and I'm good.

For the .357 Mag it's 2400. And that charge depends on the bullet but is usually around 13.5grs to 14.0 grs.

Simple and to the point.

As for the Lee dippers I have one of the old black sets that measure in grains I think. Occasionally I'll use them to dip a charge into my scale pan then use the dribbler to bring it up to my desired charge.
I've never been able to develop a technique that would get me consistent dipped charges.

Joe

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Dribbler?? I think you mean TRICKLER. A dribbler is something else altogether and so is a tickler but we won't go into that here. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

 

[RugerSP101]

I think it's smart for someone to understand their personal limitations.

Back in 87 I had that love for big bangs.
I bought a Thompson Center Contender 10" in 30-30.
That was the most obnoxious gun I have ever owned.
I think it broke me....and made some fingers bleed

 

[RugerSP101]

As for the Lee dippers I have one of the old black sets that measure in grains I think. Occasionally I'll use them to dip a charge into my scale pan then use the dribbler to bring it up to my desired charge.
I've never been able to develop a technique that would get me consistent dipped charges.

Joe

I tried a couple ways, but in the end the instructions seem to have been the best, most consistent.

 

[WESHOOT2]

LEE dippers work best with specific powders, and are marginal with others.
I include Unique in the 'marginal' category.
I do so because of its flake nature.
Understanding its limitations with dippers, I also know I can use both Unique and dippers when my charge is on the safe/ medium-mild side.
And I have.

When developing a dipper-load for more thrust I choose a powder better suited to volume-metering like HS6 or Power Pistol or AA5 or WAP or 3N37.
All powders listed above are appropriate for both 38 Special +P and 357 Magnum medium-mild.

I also use my Dillon XL650, which renders my two sets of dippers moot, ay?

 

[WESHOOT2]

When using dippers, I dispense my chosen powder into a clean 'yogurt' (sized) cup, and 'draw' my dipper 'through' the powder.
More consistent, for me.

 

[dougader]

I think it's smart for someone to understand their personal limitations.

Back in 87 I had that love for big bangs.
I bought a Thompson Center Contender 10" in 30-30.
That was the most obnoxious gun I have ever owned.
I think it broke me....and made some fingers bleed

I had a T/C Super 14 in 30-30 and while it most likely wasn't as bad as yours, I think I messed my wrists up for good shooting silhouette with that thing. It was fun to shoot, and incredibly accurate but I paid a price.

Like you, I cut my trigger finger on the edge of the trigger. It happened to me during the first IHMSA match I used the T/C. During recoil the gun would twist upward, and torque counter-clockwaise and the edge of the trigger sliced my finger good.

I asked around for a band-aid and people thought I had shot myself. It was amazing how much blood came from a little cut on the side of my finger. :lol: