Concealed Carry

[dhains1963]

For police, the most common injuries are to the non-shooting hand or the shooting-side leg. In other words, while drawing from the holster, or putting back in the holster. Those are easy skills to learn, but apparently also easy to neglect. So don't neglect them!

These are professional people who use guns for a living. Not weekend plinkers. Condition 1 carry is no joke. It is for an immanent threat, not walking around in a walmart.

 

[dhains1963]

Properly practiced "Israeli Carry" adds about 1/10-1/5 of a second to first round. I believe it originated around Single Action semi autos and carrying Cocked and Locked which is it's own can of worms. Depending on your level of disciplined carry it's probably still a good option.

Agreed. If professionals shoot themselves, bolstering and drawing, how apt is a nonprofessional to do it. Plus, you also have the " pumping a shotgun" principle. If someone puls their pistol and racks one into the chamber, people stand at attention.

 

[Mobuck]

Around here any handgun not stored in a case has a round in the chamber. Some have been in that condition for extended periods. I never unload a SD handgun unless it's being cleaned and unless it's going into storage, it's loaded and round chambered immediately after cleaning. We have no small children (or idiot grownups) in our house. Fact of life: EVERY GUN IS LOADED.
I don't follow the idea of having to chamber a round during a high stress(SD) scenario--it's just something else that could go wrong. In some cases, drawing and chambering a round could be considered 'escalating' a confrontation. I carry cross draw which allows a very discreet grasping of the gun w/o a lot of provocative and attention attracting movement. I'm going to be 2-3 steps ahead of the average concealed carry w/o drawing attention to myself.

 

[vito]

The fact that some police officers have had accidental or negligent discharges does not mean that the untrained are more likely to do so. Complacency is not uncommon with anyone who does anything frequently. The untrained individual may actually be more likely to follow safety rules carefully because they still have a sense of nervousness about having a gun on their belt or in their pocket, it is not yet "old hat".

 

[larry8]

Hay, South Carolina just passed the right to carry (constitution carry) law, so everyone can carry without a license.

 

[dhains1963]

Hay, South Carolina just passed the right to carry (constitution carry) law, so everyone can carry without a license.

Awesome

 

[dhains1963]

Around here any handgun not stored in a case has a round in the chamber. Some have been in that condition for extended periods. I never unload a SD handgun unless it's being cleaned and unless it's going into storage, it's loaded and round chambered immediately after cleaning. We have no small children (or idiot grownups) in our house. Fact of life: EVERY GUN IS LOADED.
I don't follow the idea of having to chamber a round during a high stress(SD) scenario--it's just something else that could go wrong. In some cases, drawing and chambering a round could be considered 'escalating' a confrontation. I carry cross draw which allows a very discreet grasping of the gun w/o a lot of provocative and attention attracting movement. I'm going to be 2-3 steps ahead of the average concealed carry w/o drawing attention to myself.

Clambering a round shows that one was not looking for trouble (not having one in the chamber already, ie perceived looking for trouble carry). There is no argument one can make that can say that condition 3 carry is less safe, or less aggressive in nature, than condition 1 carry. Any liberal would tell one that.

Arguing that the less trained are not more likely to have holstering, or drawing negligent discharges than professionals, is like making the argument that because one person dies wearing a seat belt (and thousands others are saved by them) makes not wearing one sensible.

 

[GunnyGene]

A lesson on distance and defense from the Las Cruces PD. And why your sidearm should be quickly accessible with one in the chamber and safety off. People often choose comfort with no printing, over accessibility. A carried sidearm is supposed to be comforting, not necessarily comfortable.

New Mexico Police Learn a Valuable Lesson on Distance and Defense at Great Cost - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post Coming Soon...▶ A few days ago, an extremely graphic set of videos was released by the Las Cruces Police Department in New Mexico. In the videos, we see the brutal murder of a police officer. After the officer is stabbed, a citizen with a concealed handgun license...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Excerpt:

In short, the police officer approaches a homeless man who had been a problem at a private business. Within seconds, the man pulled out a knife and stabbed the officer several times, causing him to bleed profusely and rapidly.

While the interim police chief says that the officer did nothing wrong, that's not technically true. It's well known in policing and concealed carry alike that distance is safety. The closer you are to a dangerous person, the less time you have to draw a pistol and fire it. So, if that person pulls a knife out, they can kill you with it before you have any opportunity to stop them.

 

[dhains1963]

The whole idea of having one in the chamber is to be ready for trouble and quick use of one's handgun. How could having to rack as you draw before firing be perceived as less agressive?

 

[dhains1963]

Ideally da/sa is the best carry option. It is safe and fast.

 

[rammerjammer]

Tell that to tens of thousands in Israel. They are constantly in a state of readiness, as compared to any civilian in this forum.

"Israeli carry calls for the pistol to be drawn with one hand as the other hand grips the slide. As the weapon is presented and aimed, the slide is pulled back to chamber a round. Although it is slower than carrying with one in the chamber, the argument for Israeli carry is the emphasis of safety. However, it does require that the chambering/presentation motion be trained properly to ensure that a round is ready to fire when the weapon is aimed."

I carry striker fire pistols in condition 3. My lcr 357 is carried in condition 2 (as are all revolvers with all chambers loaded).. An argument for condition 3 (Israeli Carry) is having that 1/2 second longer to access your situation, backdrop, etc...

As law enforcement and military condition 1 would be my carry preference.

Tell that to the Israelis of decades past.

That method of carry was utilized because they had such a wide array of firearms with different manual of arms it was the safest way for new, many lacking good training soldiers in the early IDF.

 

[dhains1963]

Tell that to the Israelis of decades past.

That method of carry was utilized because they had such a wide array of firearms with different manual of arms it was the safest way for new, many lacking good training soldiers in the early IDF.

So the proponents trying to justify condition one carry for civilians say.

 

[pyth0n]

I understand the Israeli carry, watched them do it. But never learned why. I don't think their reason and situations applies to an Armed citizen here. Aren't they with fellow soldiers/police on patrol and have machine guns or rifles. And they practice getting the handgun into a fight more than most here will never do.
We carry for a few reasons but mainly against an attack on us. Remember action, (that is done by the thug) is faster and a lot faster than older unskilled and unprepared victims reacting to a violent attack that's many times unseen and unknown until they are attacking. They mainly use the surprise the victim quickly. They pick and choose who they think they can beat not who might fight back.
You likely will never to get draw, rack, remove safety and aim before the thug has shot/stabbed or is on top of you.

With regard to the Israeli carry, I read that they adopted that practice long ago when their military had a mix of handguns. They decided the system of carrying with the empty chamber, regardless of the make & model of the gun, and racking the slide to chamber a round was the same drill for all the guns. No dealing with safeties or single vs double action.

 

[Mobuck]

"With regard to the Israeli carry, I read that they adopted that practice long ago when their military had a mix of handguns. "
Another factor in this specific case was the simple fact that many (or most) of the semi-auto handguns Israel had access to were single action (NAZI Hi-power clones) that were both shoddily made and used hard. This may have caused the perceived or real need to carry these pistols with and empty chamber due to safety issues. The 'Israeli draw' was an answer to this problem.

 

[kmoore]

With regard to the Israeli carry, I read that they adopted that practice long ago when their military had a mix of handguns. They decided the system of carrying with the empty chamber, regardless of the make & model of the gun, and racking the slide to chamber a round was the same drill for all the guns. No dealing with safeties or single vs double action.

Thanks. Didn't know that reason. It's not a way I will carry any SD gun I have.

 

[Hvymax]

They used to carry revolvers with an empty chamber for similar reasons.

 

[owldo]

One in the chamber or not?

Use a DA/SA with a de-cocker with round in the chamber !

 

[Jack Ryan]

Always one in the chamber when carrying.

Do not carry all of the time though. Work, various state restrictions, etc.

Otherwise it is a poorly shaped rock.

I'd rather have poorly shaped rock than a great idea at home under the bed.

 

[Fox Mike]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the gun you plan on carrying is the Security 9 you mentioned in another thread?

If that's correct, the pistol has a number of safety feature's including a manual safety, and a hammer block. Doesn't get much safer than that. I understand your desire to get used to carry before moving to one in the chamber, but by doing so you'll have to "unlearn" what you got used to (draw, rack, flip safety off, then pull the trigger) when you do make the transition to one up, safety off.

I don't know about the Security 9 but on the Security 380 you cannot engage the safety until the pistol is cocked. If there is no round chambered you cannot engage the safety unless you keep it cocked on an empty chamber. One less thing to do if you decide to carry an unloaded (no round chambered) gun. So, it's draw, rack, and fire.

 

[dhains1963]

Use a DA/SA with a de-cocker with round in the chamber !

A decocked da/sa would be a condition 2 ( like my lcr). Nice. I carried an sp2022 sig for a while. What are you carrying,