It amazes me that this would even be a topic of conversation. Empty handguns really make lousy clubs. And if the chamber is empty the firearm must be loaded before use.
Concealed Carry
- Thread starter Fredo
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New guy, asking an honest question. Not amazing at all. Most that have been around for a while understand that an unloaded gun is a great paperweight, but someone new is asking for information not criticism.
You don't want to be like the movies where you tell the perp to freeze and then 30 seconds later rack the slide to show them your serious
Should have made myself clear. I wasn't questioning Fredo. But I was questioning any knowledgeable handgunner that would carry condition three.
Though I once knew a lieutenant that insisted 1911's be carried that way. Then one day he figured out why everyone ignored him.
I understand not wanting to shoot when it is not justified, but carrying a gun that needs to be drawn, safety flipped off, slide pulled back before it can be fired can easily result in you being stabbed or shot with that almost ready to fire gun in your hand. You might want to consider pocket carry, and possibly switch to a revolver. As you are assessing the possible danger around you, you can have your hand in your pocket and gripping the gun, making it possible to draw and fire much more quickly if needed as compared to how you currently carry.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
During my time on this rock, I've noticed that the probability of bad things happening is inversely proportional to my level of preparedness.
Or as Jeff Cooper put it:
Properly practiced "Israeli Carry" adds about 1/10-1/5 of a second to first round. I believe it originated around Single Action semi autos and carrying Cocked and Locked which is it's own can of worms. Depending on your level of disciplined carry it's probably still a good option.
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That may be a good theory, and it may work well for professionals and people that practice it a lot, but I'm not sure that most people have the ability to draw their weapon with one hand, rack the slide with the other hand on the way up, keep an eye on the threat while at the same time maintaining their cool in a very stressful situation. That takes an awful lot of practice and I don't think most people are going to go to that extreme. Just my thought anyway.
I understand the Israeli carry, watched them do it. But never learned why. I don't think their reason and situations applies to an Armed citizen here. Aren't they with fellow soldiers/police on patrol and have machine guns or rifles. And they practice getting the handgun into a fight more than most here will never do.
We carry for a few reasons but mainly against an attack on us. Remember action, (that is done by the thug) is faster and a lot faster than older unskilled and unprepared victims reacting to a violent attack that's many times unseen and unknown until they are attacking. They mainly use the surprise the victim quickly. They pick and choose who they think they can beat not who might fight back.
You likely will never to get draw, rack, remove safety and aim before the thug has shot/stabbed or is on top of you. Your gun becomes is a useless weapon and might be taken away.
For 26 years I had to practice disarming an attacker 3 times a year. And or reacting to an attack I knew was likely to happen. It's not easy to win. In the advanced training, I the victim had my eyes closed in the standing position. I could not do any moves until I was touched. And then react to save my life. Sometimes I lost, sometimes I won. Reacting to action is damn hard.
Why anyone would add more moves and more fine motor skills needed in a life and death fight to win what's already an uphill battle is beyond me.
Having a unchambered SD gun is only helping the thug who wants to harm or kill you. It's not saving you any time and tasks to just be able to shoot. KISS.
We carry for a few reasons but mainly against an attack on us. Remember action, (that is done by the thug) is faster and a lot faster than older unskilled and unprepared victims reacting to a violent attack that's many times unseen and unknown until they are attacking. They mainly use the surprise the victim quickly. They pick and choose who they think they can beat not who might fight back.
You likely will never to get draw, rack, remove safety and aim before the thug has shot/stabbed or is on top of you. Your gun becomes is a useless weapon and might be taken away.
For 26 years I had to practice disarming an attacker 3 times a year. And or reacting to an attack I knew was likely to happen. It's not easy to win. In the advanced training, I the victim had my eyes closed in the standing position. I could not do any moves until I was touched. And then react to save my life. Sometimes I lost, sometimes I won. Reacting to action is damn hard.
Why anyone would add more moves and more fine motor skills needed in a life and death fight to win what's already an uphill battle is beyond me.
Having a unchambered SD gun is only helping the thug who wants to harm or kill you. It's not saving you any time and tasks to just be able to shoot. KISS.
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crstrode
Single-Sixer
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
A lot of folks preach 'situational awareness', but few are able to define it as well as Jeff did.Never read this bit from Jeff Cooper before.
It is golden
That's the problem with 90+% of gun owners. They buy a gun and a box of ammo and they think they're John Wick. Practice is everything. Without muscle memory a gun is useless in the dark. Jam clearance drills etc. Practicing Dry and Live fire as well as drawing from however you carry is essential to effectively using any arm you find yourself with. I much prefer condition 2 for safe carry but not every gun has that option. I think Condition 3 is far safer for most without the training, experience and discipline to safely carry a firearm. Many of the new striker guns have really good triggers which makes them like a 1911 with the safety off and the grip safety taped down for people to carry.
ALK08
Bearcat
I usually carry one in chamber ..
ncvikingfan
Single-Sixer
Always one in the chamber when carrying.
Do not carry all of the time though. Work, various state restrictions, etc.
Otherwise it is a poorly shaped rock.
Do not carry all of the time though. Work, various state restrictions, etc.
Otherwise it is a poorly shaped rock.
It also allows you to just drop the mag to make safe.
Heck, if you want to do that just buy a pistol with a magazine disconnect.
Maverick
Bearcat
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2009
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- 64
Nothing wrong with that and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Better that than to leave it at home. Time and increased confidence will allow you to eventually go condition 1. The most important thing is situational awareness regardless of whether you carry condition 1 or condition 2.
Daryl Licht
Bearcat
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2008
- Messages
- 7
Always one in the chamber. My carry guns are either striker or DA/SA. First we learn to trust the safety systems built into the weapon, then we learn trust ourselves to not do anything stupid. If I didn't think I could trust the gun's safety systems to work, I wouldn't carry it. If I couldn't trust myself to carry and handle a weapon in a safe manner, I wouldn't carry one at all.
dhains1963
Single-Sixer
Tell that to tens of thousands in Israel. They are constantly in a state of readiness, as compared to any civilian in this forum.
"Israeli carry calls for the pistol to be drawn with one hand as the other hand grips the slide. As the weapon is presented and aimed, the slide is pulled back to chamber a round. Although it is slower than carrying with one in the chamber, the argument for Israeli carry is the emphasis of safety. However, it does require that the chambering/presentation motion be trained properly to ensure that a round is ready to fire when the weapon is aimed."
I carry striker fire pistols in condition 3. My lcr 357 is carried in condition 2 (as are all revolvers with all chambers loaded).. An argument for condition 3 (Israeli Carry) is having that 1/2 second longer to access your situation, backdrop, etc...
As law enforcement and military condition 1 would be my carry preference.
