Children with and without good manners

[Watertender]

On Saturday mornings I have breakfast with friends at the local diner. We usually are there for a couple of hours visiting with each other and various other people who come and go.

There is a family with 2 children, an 8 year old son and a 4 year old daughter. These 2 kids are perfectly behaved with good table manners. The parents don't have to speak to them about the way they act and they are a delight to be around. My friends and I are always happy to see the entire family and we talk with them including the kids who are so polite that we enjoy their company.

Now I come to the other side of the coin....
My wife's sister has an 11 year old son who is a little tyrant and absolute jerk which are the most polite way to describe him. If I called him what he truly is, the moderators would delete the thread.

This kid refuses to listen to anyone and turned a family dinner into chaos the other night. My wife made lasagna and a salad which the kid refused to eat. His mother made him something else which held up dinner for an extra hour and then he refused to eat that as well. He was screaming at the table that he wasn't going to eat what was there and he shoved the table which knocked over all of our drinks.
The father (PhD in political science) ignores the behavior and says nothing about it. The mother (MSW) whines at the kid about his actions while doing nothing to correct him. All you hear from her is.... Daaaaannnnnyelllll, stop that... mommy is getting upset...
I didn't say anything because it's not my house or kid but if he was my kid I would not tolerate that nonsense in the least.
The good thing is that they live 300 miles away and are here only a few times a year...

 

[nrobe50]

The kid needs an old fashioned ass whipping about once a week. I guarantee that if he lived at my house his behavior would change quickly.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

The kid needs an old fashioned ass whipping about once a week. I guarantee that if he lived at my house his behavior would change quickly.

Yup, sounds right. Perhaps even more often.

Problem is, he'd go to school and tell his teacher he was beaten at home and the "child welfare" folks would be all over the parents.

All too common these days.

:(

 

[375hh1973]

Wife has a niece 10, and nephew 8, who are wild animals. Their parents do nothing to correct the behavior.

Best thing is they are 1279 miles away in Houston, TX

Every time we see them we are reminded we made the right choice of no kids

 

[JohnL]

"Manners Maketh Man". So wrote William of Wykeham (1324–1404), bishop of Winchester and Chancellor of England. Founder of Oxford College.

I cannot abide poor table manners. Not that I am an expert but can manage to dine with others without inciting conflict. We have come a long way from stabbing at our plates with a dagger to using various cutlery in a more refined manner. This can be overworked and there are plenty of fussbudgets out there ready to correct the untutored. I try to avoid GI mess hall or prison cafeteria type dining.

There are cultural differences between nations. In the USA, it is considered polite to keep an unused hand in one's lap. In Germany, that unused hand is kept in a fist on top of the table next to the plate. I am not sure if it is meant to punch transgressors or just an indication one is not playing with self. LOL!

Too many young people are clueless. Their lack of refinement is a sad commentary on how they are raised.

 

[Watertender]

JohnL it goes much further than just table manners with the abominable nephew. He is either screaming or sulking with nothing between the extremes.
My wife told her sister when the kid was 2 or 3 that she needed to discipline him and teach him some manners. The mother told my wife that my wife didn't know anything about raising children and she was going to raise the kid her way.

The results are showing and they are not good.

 

[JohnL]

JohnL it goes much further than just table manners with the abominable nephew. He is either screaming or sulking with nothing between the extremes.
My wife told her sister when the kid was 2 or 3 that she needed to discipline him and teach him some manners. The mother told my wife that my wife didn't know anything about raising children and she was going to raise the kid her way.

The results are showing and they are not good.

I am sorry for that. That youngster will suffer for it in later years.

 

[Dan in MI]

We told our kids the minute you act up at a restaurant we are out the door. It took one trip to the car to end that before it really started.

My daughter started whining in a store one day. I looked at her and said "I'm sorry I don't understand Whinese. Speak calmly in English and we can discuss it." That one took a few times but she quickly learned whining got no response.

I went to a "lunch with your kid" day at school when she was in 5th grade. There were only about 4 kids out of 40 that actually closed their mouth to chew. I was shocked. Especially so with kids I knew their parents and thought they were on the ball.

 

[Cholo]

There's no way I'd ever sit down at a dinner table with that little hellion around! I could hold my tongue one time, but there's no way I would hold it a second time.

I divorced in '91 with 3 young kids. I'd never feed then a select few things that they literally hated. If any one said they wouldn't eat what I fixed for dinner I just told them it was a long time until breakfast and took their plate away. Done! That ended that! LOL

My oldest daughter, whom I love dearly, was running her mouth at me when she was 11. I warned her to stop and I no sooner said that when...

That factory reset has worked from that instant in '92 until now.

Watertender, that brats never going to change with parents like that. Someday someone else will square him away.

 

[Watertender]

Cholo the kid getting tuned up can't be soon enough for my liking. I went up to visit once during the week that they have been there. That was more than enough.

I was just told that he acted up in church this morning. They should be proud of the monster that they have created.

My son acted up once in a store. I gave my wife the money and told her to finish the shopping. I grabbed him by the ear and dragged him out for a little discussion. He never acted up in a store again and he never misbehaved when we went out to eat.

I had a look that my son used to call my disapproving daddy look. All I had to do was look over the top of my glasses and he knew that he was getting close to the limit.

Unfortunately my son died when he was 19 and I will never have grandkids of my own. My current wife and I went to lunch with a friend who I consider my adopted son and his son who is a year and a half. The little guy sat there and behaved without a problem. He ate good and was cheerful the entire time. We were proud of him.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

I was lucky. I wss raised by parents and grandparents who insisted on at least the basic table manners . . . elbows off table, proper use of utensils, chew with mouth closed, polite conversation, etc. It worked on me and my sister. My wife and I insisted on the same with our kids and were backed up by our parents. In both cases it worked because we were brought up that way from day one, as were our kids. No drama. :)

My grandchildren have received the same from their parents and us. We'll see how the grands come long.

I may not know exactly how to use the third fork in the table setting, but I'm smart enough to watch how others do so. ;)

 

[Fox Mike]

If my brother or I had said we weren't going to eat what was put out to eat my mom/dad would have told us simply "OK, go hungry. That's what is dinner so eat or not; your choice.". Mom always said she had two options for every meal: "Take it or leave it."

 

[arfmel]

My wife’s nephew called all the shots since he was a toddler. If we were invited out to eat with him and his parents, for example, the toddler got to pick where we went to eat. He’s probably 40 now, has a job working for daddy (nobody else would put up with him). When dad is gone I don’t know how he’s going to get by.

People who raise their kids that way aren’t doing them any favors.

 

[NC FNS]

We’re all teachers, and kids learn what they are taught. The parents have either enabled that child’s behavior by reinforcing it, or (less than 1% chance) the child has brain damage of some sort.
If given the chance, I try to let the kids know I’m an inventor. I invented a rule for children - Don’t talk with your mouth open. A kid with any amount of intelligence will at least think quietly about that for a few moments.

 

[Mike J]

I have been blessed. I have given my children very few spankings & they act right for the most part. I established with my girls at an early age that whatever I told them I would do would happen when they were small. They have not given me any problem since. Their younger brother (they are 19 & 18, he is 12) just sort of fell in with what they were doing. If I give him a stern look & raise my voice he immediately straightens up. Every kid is different though. I am sure I had been spanked more times before I was six than the three of them have in their whole lives.

 

[gnappi]

The kid needs an old fashioned ass whipping about once a week. I guarantee that if he lived at my house his behavior would change quickly.

Yup, and unfortunately in a few days time they'll be answering to the local Child Protection Services.

Oh, and I'd not invite them again and tell them why.

 

[contender]

It's truly sad that all too often these days,, parents are not actually being parents. And it's also WRONG when a parent uses spanking as a from of correction and gets reported for child abuse.

I see adults who have no manners,, and their kids follow the same path. And I see kids follow their "role model" parent.

I too was raised to be polite, have manners, and behave in public. And yes,, when I did something wrong,, I got spanked or switched, or a belt taken to my backside.

As an adult BSA leader,, I'd teach the boys under my supervision manners. I recall once,, I had 3 older boys with me at a restaurant. When we sat down,, all hats came off. Shortly,, an older gentleman stopped by the table to compliment me on how I was raising my boys to be polite & remove their hats. I chuckled & allowed how I was just their BSA Leader,, but I was also responsible for that lesson. He got real serious & told the boys that it made him PROUD to see such adult leadership & that they should always remember my lessons.

About a year ago,, Penny & I went to a local cafe like we do most Friday nights. There is a family of people mostly older,, who also are regulars. A young man, maybe in his late teens or early 20's always removes his hat. None of the other men in that group ever do. I happened to catch the attention of this young man & complimented him on his manners & removing his hat before dinner.
Now,, that young man ALWAYS speaks to me & is always very polite & friendly. So are the rest of the family,, but only that one young man removes his hat.

Manners, of all kinds go a long way in how others view a person.

Watertender, I feel for that brat,, because one of these days,, with his attitude,, he'll get into serious trouble when he meets the wrong type of person. But I will say he'll likely deserve what he receives that day.

 

[Busterswoodshop]

Spare the rod , spoil the children.

 

[Jeepnik]

Manners and proper behavior were taught and expected for both home and away. But kids always push limits and some of us more than others. But my parents would brook no bad behavior in public. When we went out to eat if one of the four of us acted up we were sent to sit in the car until the rest of the family returned. That usually also meant missing the meal. My eldest sister an I seemed to be the ones who would suffer this punishment most often (and that was darned rare).

One memorable occasion we both acted up at a local seafood place at (for those that know the L.A. harbor area) Pier Point Landing. At the landing they had a couple of salt water pools that had seals/sea lions you could buy food for and feed. Being the two family rebels we decided that instead of sit in the car we would watch the critters while the others ate. Our plan was to get back to the car before they returned. Being kids we lost tack of time. Yea, we paid for that one.:whistle:

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Yup, and unfortunately in a few days time they'll be answering to the local Child Protection Services.

See post #3. ;)

 

[Yaworski]

Problem is, he'd go to school and tell his teacher he was beaten at home and the "child welfare" folks would be all over the parents.

When my son was in grade school he came home one day and announced that we couldn't spank him because the school said that if we did, we would be arrested.

I said, "Fine, do that" and went on to explain that he'd be put into a foster home without games, or his bike, and have to share a room with six other kids. That was the end of that.

 

[Yaworski]

I can't recall my kids throwing tantrums or acting out in public.

 

[Sam Summey]

On Saturday mornings I have breakfast with friends at the local diner. We usually are there for a couple of hours visiting with each other and various other people who come and go.

There is a family with 2 children, an 8 year old son and a 4 year old daughter. These 2 kids are perfectly behaved with good table manners. The parents don't have to speak to them about the way they act and they are a delight to be around. My friends and I are always happy to see the entire family and we talk with them including the kids who are so polite that we enjoy their company.

Now I come to the other side of the coin....
My wife's sister has an 11 year old son who is a little tyrant and absolute jerk which are the most polite way to describe him. If I called him what he truly is, the moderators would delete the thread.

This kid refuses to listen to anyone and turned a family dinner into chaos the other night. My wife made lasagna and a salad which the kid refused to eat. His mother made him something else which held up dinner for an extra hour and then he refused to eat that as well. He was screaming at the table that he wasn't going to eat what was there and he shoved the table which knocked over all of our drinks.
The father (PhD in political science) ignores the behavior and says nothing about it. The mother (MSW) whines at the kid about his actions while doing nothing to correct him. All you hear from her is.... Daaaaannnnnyelllll, stop that... mommy is getting upset...
I didn't say anything because it's not my house or kid but if he was my kid I would not tolerate that nonsense in the least.
The good thing is that they live 300 miles away and are here only a few times a year...

I had three boys, they were allowed an opinion at home as long as there was no company, they were expected to be on their best behavior in public and in the presence of company. The understanding, the punishment was more severe if the rules were not followed in the presence of company and in public.

 

[contender]

If I had a child in school,, that came home & told me the school told him/her we couldn't spank them,, the very next day,, I would go to the school, and request an immediate meeting with the principal. I would ask them if they were going to be legally liable for bad behavior if my child acted out & caused a problem? Of course,, they will say they are not,, and that they are there to protect the kids. I would reply that they are not the ones raising the kid, paying for their upbringing, and ARE legally liable for the minor child. That if I choose to spank my kid,, that's my business, not theirs. And that there is a distinct difference between a spanking & child abuse.
If they do not agree with my methods,, I'd find a different school, or home school while I discussed a legal way to stop this intrusion into how I raised my children. Legal liability,, lawsuits,, & such all put things into a different perspective. And if the local school board refused to accept the way I raised my child,, I'd be forced to home school. But I'd have control of how my child is raised.
And part of the argument I'd use is that as a parent I could be held legally liable if I raised my child without discipline and they committed a crime.

I know I'd lose in my fight with the school & legal system if I pushed it. But it would be a way to raise awareness of HOW a "school" is trying to take over the raising of my child WITHOUT any legal liability on their part.

And I do like the approach of telling a child of what life would be like in a foster home & what would happen to them if they were removed from my home. But to a child who is very mad or upset,, they, in their innocent minds do not understand the serious consequences of doing that, and may THINK they can do it to get back at their parent(s) for whatever!

The best way to prevent such problems,, is to start a fair but stern way of discipline long before they get into a school system. Unless the school system actually requires good discipline and enforces it as well.
Parents who "threaten" a child with a form of punishment,, yet fail to actually punish bad behavior are also failing as a parent.

My kids,,as they grew,, if they did something wrong,, the first time, they were seriously spoken to & an explanation was given about the offense. I would also tell them that if it happened again, what would happen the next time. If it happened again,, I'd ASK them if they remember what I told them,, and then would proceed to give the punishment once they remembered everything.

My sister & her ex have a son. As a kid,, he was a brat. Dad,, ( a Marine) would let my sister handle discipline as he felt he'd be too hard on him. Well, not the son is in his 40's,, married with 3 kids. He's an atheist, doesn't punish his 3 bratty kids, and is such a person as to refuse to see, talk to, be around or have anything to do with either of his parents. He's a total donkey backside. He lives less than 3 miles from his mother,, yet,, hasn't had ANY contact with her in over 2 years. Even longer with his Dad. Yet,, both his Dad & my sister allowed him, his wife & kids live with them when they needed a place to live while awaiting a place of their own. He retired from the Air Force,, and wasn't an "outstanding" troop from what I could see. Basically,, if he doesn't get his way with his parents, he disowns them, AND keeps his kids away from their grandparents. He's not a good person to be around. He's not a criminal,, he works,, & all. But not a pleasant person to be around. His cousins (my boys) haven't seen or heard from him in years.
Poorly raised kids turn into poorly acting adults.

 

[Tensaw]

I had 4 brothers. When we were "out of line" or thought we were "going to do things our way". Mom would say, "go bring me a switch and not a little one". It only took 3 times for me to get the message that I was not in charge.

 

[MaxMan]

Yup, sounds right. Perhaps even more often.

Problem is, he'd go to school and tell his teacher he was beaten at home and the "child welfare" folks would be all over the parents.

All too common these days.

:(

I think my two brothers and I would have been taken away from my folks and they would be in jail today. Not abusive at all but dad being retired naval officer didn't put up with disrespect of any kind. Actually, neither did mom. One morning my older brother (the trail blazer of the line that could be crossed) smarted off to mom. He wore a handprint to school that day on the side of his face, A while later at the parent teacher conference day, the teacher said she admired mom for not keeping in at line.

 

[Watertender]

My 1st wife's sister has 6 grandchildren. They are polite and have good table manners. They say please and thank you without fail and chew with their mouths closed. The 4 and 8 year olds mentioned in my original post also chew properly.

The nephew from the original post chews with his mouth open when he does eat. I watched his father the PhD chew with his mouth open as well. The kid got an Easter basket and gorged himself on candy which just fueled his obnoxious ways. I'm glad I wasn't there for that performance...

When my son was little my wife and I taught him table manners and he was polite when we ate anywhere. We would order for him if we were at a restaurant but we would let him read the menu to improve his reading skills. He made us and the other customers in a restaurant laugh when he asked "What's a Demonic Steak "?

 

[454Redhawk]

I make it a point to always approach a family with well mannered kids and complement the parents and kids for their good manners. I do it now and did in uniform when I was a cop. It's sad that some adults tolerate bad behavior when in public.

 

[jav]

On Saturday mornings I have breakfast with friends at the local diner. We usually are there for a couple of hours visiting with each other and various other people who come and go.

There is a family with 2 children, an 8 year old son and a 4 year old daughter. These 2 kids are perfectly behaved with good table manners. The parents don't have to speak to them about the way they act and they are a delight to be around. My friends and I are always happy to see the entire family and we talk with them including the kids who are so polite that we enjoy their company.

Now I come to the other side of the coin....
My wife's sister has an 11 year old son who is a little tyrant and absolute jerk which are the most polite way to describe him. If I called him what he truly is, the moderators would delete the thread.

This kid refuses to listen to anyone and turned a family dinner into chaos the other night. My wife made lasagna and a salad which the kid refused to eat. His mother made him something else which held up dinner for an extra hour and then he refused to eat that as well. He was screaming at the table that he wasn't going to eat what was there and he shoved the table which knocked over all of our drinks.
The father (PhD in political science) ignores the behavior and says nothing about it. The mother (MSW) whines at the kid about his actions while doing nothing to correct him. All you hear from her is.... Daaaaannnnnyelllll, stop that... mommy is getting upset...
I didn't say anything because it's not my house or kid but if he was my kid I would not tolerate that nonsense in the least.
The good thing is that they live 300 miles away and are here only a few times a year...

I know exactly what you are saying my wife’s sister think god they live in mo we are in California they came to visit that kid is crazy I have other words to describe him but they would delete my comment. I keep my mouth shut but man he just is plain crazy doesn’t listen to her at all

 

[Jeepnik]

And sadly, then there are the zombies whose parents have decided to drug them rather than discipline them. Idiot teachers tried to tell my my kids were ADHD and suggested we have our doctor prescribe Ritalin. I told them I would take care of it. They learned, quickly, what behavior was expected at school.