Cast Bullets in an SR 9?

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JustsayMo

Single-Sixer
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
146
Can cast bullets be shot safely in the SR9?

If anyone is, which mold are you using?

TIA
 

Turbobuddha

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
182
GLOCK's about the only one I can think of that you CAN'T run cast through. The issue in the hexigonal rifling that gunks up with lead. Though you can get an after market barrel to solve that issue. Someone else uses hexigonal rifling but I can't think of them.
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
5,590
Turbobuddha":12zcc4fl said:
GLOCK's about the only one I can think of that you CAN'T run cast through. The issue in the hexigonal rifling that gunks up with lead.

Actually, it's polygonal rifling, which is more like a swirl than the standard lands and grooves. The polygonal rifling actually grips the bullet much tighter than standard rifling, and scuffs off lead. After a while if you don't clean your gun, it can slightly restrict the barrel, raising pressure and potentially causing a KaBOOM if it gets bad enough. Usually in .40's, since they operate at such high pressures.

I've shot thousands of rounds of lead out of my Glocks without incident. All you have to do is clean your barrel regularly and there are no issues. Glock, of course, recommends that you NEVER use lead bullets in their guns, for that exact reason, and I'd have to agree, since you can never tell how people will maintain (or not maintain) their guns.

Correction ! It seems that Glock now calls their barrel rifling hexagonal or octagonal, so it seems the terminology has been changed/updated, or is now used interchangeably with 'polygonal'. Sorry TB.

From Wikipedia ...

Polygonal rifling is a type of rifling wherein the traditional lands and grooves are replaced by "hills and valleys" in a rounded polygonal pattern, usually a hexagon or octagon.

Polygons with a larger number of edges provide a better gas seal in relatively large diameter polygonally rifled bores. In the Glock pistol, for instance, octagonal rifling is used in the large diameter .45 ACP bore, which has a 11.23 mm (0.442 in) diameter, since it resembles a circle more closely than the hexagonal rifling used in smaller diameter bores.[1]



REV
 

high_caliber

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 29, 2001
Messages
4
revhigh":1j6m7upy said:
Glock, of course, recommends that you NEVER use lead bullets in their guns, ...
REV

Could you please show us where Glock makes a statement to that effect?
THANKS
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
5,590
high_caliber":1lkfmzo9 said:
revhigh":1lkfmzo9 said:
Glock, of course, recommends that you NEVER use lead bullets in their guns, ...
REV

Could you please show us where Glock makes a statement to that effect?
THANKS

LOL !! I do believe you're right ... there is no implicit (WRITTEN) warning in the owners manual, although if you call Glock they WILL tell you that. Here's a few other excerpts as to why you're theoretically not supposed to use lead ...

From Glockmeister:

Q: Can I shoot bare lead bullets from my Glock? If not, why?
A: It is not a good idea to shoot bare lead bullets from your Glock. There are two basic reasons, the first is that the polygonal rifling in a Glock barrel really grips the bullet - this causes lead bullets to leave heavy deposits of lead when the gun is fired - heavy deposits of lead can lead to over-pressure problems - over-pressure problems can lead to nasty things like case failures. The second reason is that where the chamber meets the bore there is a sharp full edge (standard rifling does not have such a pronounced edge). This edge can shave off lead from the bullet and cause a headspace problem (the round will not fully seat) - again, this can lead to things like a case failure. Shoot plated or jacketed bullets only.

Glock Kabooms...Myth or Not?

I have read the reports where folks say they have 500, or even 5,000 rounds through their Glock with no problems. That is nice, but by no means is it significant scientifically.
I bought the first Glock .40 the local gunshop sold and started shooting IPSC with it. That first G22 went about 23K rounds before it failed. The reason it failed, and documented by myself through exhaustive metallurgical testing, and concurred with by Glock, was due to overpressure caused by lead bullets. Funny thing is that, as I write this, sitting right here at my desk, is a page full of numbers, numbers that luckily I recorded prior to the failure. I was shooting over a Chronograph when the gun blew and had over 120 rounds individually recorded. Each round had been measured and each powder charge individually weighed. I know EXACTLY what the loads, powder charges and velocities were. I look at the numbers now and wonder how I did not pick up what was occurring. But hey, I was young. This was almost 10 years ago.

As I write this, I have a G22 with over 80,000 rounds through it, a G35 with over 15,000 rounds through it, a G27 with over 20,000 rounds through it and I sold a G24 with 15,000 rounds on it, a G23 with 6,000 rounds and a G35 with 2,000 rounds on it (does not count since a KKM barrel) So I have fired 159,000 rounds of .40 through Glock factory barrels.

I have pressure tested lead bullets fired in actual Glock barrels with controlled test conditions and the same loads fired in conventionally rifled barrels. Then I fired jacketed and copper plated bullets in the same conditions to test for pressure increases there. Conclusion is that lead bullets, yes, even the 24 BHN variety, increase pressure after only a few rounds fired. When the pressure reaches an unsafe level has to do with the powders pressure curve, temperature, bullet hardness, bullet grain structure. Weak cases do let go, but do not result in the same type of damage.

When a Glock is overpressured, the shooter is rarely injured beyond a few cuts or bruises on the shooitng hand, none that I have seen have been permanent. And how many have I seen? To date I have personally inspected over 40 blown Glocks that were the result of overpressure. I have reviewed documentation on over 120 others. And, yes ALL calibers were represented.

And how would I know what I am doing, besides just being a shooter? I am a forensic engineer (mechanical) who investigates accidents and failures for a living. I have been qualified in court, as an expert (which is not easy these days). And for the record, the firm I work for does more defense work than plaintiff work. We work for who hires us and, sometimes, our clients do not like our findings, but that is the breaks, facts are facts, evidence is evidence.

Glocks are not perfect, nothing man-made is, but I trust my life to their reliability. I reload (couldn't afford to shoot if I did not). For me, I choose to shoot plated bullets which cost me a few dollars a thousand more than lead. I save on the cleaning stuff and the cost is about the same as lead. I also use the factory barrels, exclusively now (I sold my KKM barreled G35).

The overwhelming majority of blown Glocks are from lead or poor quality reloads. A few are from bad factory loads and a few from defective aftermarket parts. I must beleive that there are a scant few that have had manufacturing defects, but I have not seen one yet that casued a KB. If I do, Glock will surely be hearing from me, and I believe they will do the right thing.

From Wikipedia :

Lead bullets and polygonal rifling

The manufacturer Glock advises against using lead bullets (meaning bullets not covered by a copper jacket) in their polygonally rifled barrels, which has led to a widespread belief that polygonal rifling is not compatible with lead bullets. Firearms expert and barrel maker, the late Gale McMillan, has also commented that lead bullets and polygonal rifling are not a good mix. Some have made a point of the fact that neither H&K nor Kahr explicitly recommend against lead bullets in their polygonal rifled barrels, and feel that it is probable that there is an additional factor involved in Glock's warning. However, Kahr's FAQ does include a warning that lead bullets can cause additional fouling[3] and recommends special attention to cleaning after using them. In addition, while H&K doesn't warn against the use of lead, at least one well-documented catastrophic incident in an H&K pistol[4] appears to be related to this issue. Furthermore, Dave Spaulding, well-known gun writer, reported in the February/March 2008 issue of Handguns Magazine that when he queried H&K about their polygonally rifled barrels that they commented: "It has been their experience that polygonal rifling will foul with lead at a greater rate than will conventional rifling."

One suggestion of what the "additional factor involved in Glock's warning" might be is that Glock barrels have a fairly sharp transition between the chamber and the rifling, and this area is prone to lead buildup if lead bullets are used. This buildup may result in failures to fully return to battery, allowing the gun to fire with the case not fully supported by the chamber, leading to a potentially dangerous case failure. However, since this sharp transition is found on most autopistols this speculation is of limited value. The sharp transition or "lip" at the front of the chamber is required to "headspace" the cartridge in most autopistols.

Another possible explanation is that there are different "species" of polygonal rifle and perhaps Glock's peculiar style of polygonal rifling may be more prone to leading than the particular styles employed in the H&K and Kahr barrels.

Leading is the buildup of lead in the bore that happens in nearly all firearms firing high velocity lead bullets. This lead buildup must be cleaned out regularly, or the barrel will gradually become constricted resulting in higher than normal discharge pressures. In the extreme case, increased discharge pressures can result in a catastrophic incident.
 

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