Baton training
- Thread starter wheelgun1958
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Yaworski
Hawkeye
This is what came to mind when I saw the title.
Saw an Annapolis MD officer take down a guy that decided to run. The officer took one serious swing with his baton (billy club) and caught the runner on his shin. End of the run. I had a front row seat as it was my car the perp ran around. He ran past the passenger side and the officer past me . Caught him about one step in front of my car
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Ahhhh, yes, memories.
Got those & more in M.P. AIT at Ft. McClellan.
The 1st technique is also great for dumping a combative arrestee on their face, lift higher & push the head straight down. Land on them & cuff.
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We used both, I always kept my PR just inside of my driver's door. I bought the aluminum one with the spinning bushing in the handle. If the action was close to the unit, I always preferred using it instead of the ASP. We were issued the short ASP, I bought my own in the 21" version & carried that instead. I could get both hands on it & swing it like a bat, it was much more effective. I still have both out in the garage.
As long as he's dealing with an unarmed or an untrained individual okay. Put him up against someone with a couple of short sticks or even one who's been trained and the ER will be removing the nightstick from the officer's rectum.
On the other hand those I was trained by and with aren't the type to interface with LEO's where stick work would be necessary.
On the other hand those I was trained by and with aren't the type to interface with LEO's where stick work would be necessary.
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I remember the 'pugal sticks' in basic training. Beat on each other till one is on his butt. Then the winner gets the next guy till all have been beat and bruised. Never forgot the lessons learned.
Midget, Junior, Denver and Texan. AKA Small, Medium, Large and Ohh God Don't Hit Me Again!
Very effective if handled properly.
Very effective if handled properly.
Sadly illegal in many places today. My cane is solid aluminum as a single piece it's very effective. If I have time to separate into two pieces... Even if I fall down, you aren't going to get near me with out being on the ground as well, and trying to figure out what happened to your legs.
We had a small contingent of USCG on my frigate when we did drug interdiction ops in the Caribbean. They were armed those night sticks with the perpendicular handles on them. Those guys had some good training with them and can bring you pretty quick without strikes.
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I've seen masters hit all twelve point faster than you can think about it.
Now that batons are legal for civilians, I would like to find some training. I would like to have a force option short of shooting someone or something.
Yaworski
Hawkeye
Where is that?
Well a quick google search turned up
https://www.rcmac.net/ The teach EsKrima.
I can't speak for this place but all of my training included sparing. And even with headgear and pads you could get beat up a bit. It motivates you not to get hit again.
In another life, i read micheal echanis on phillippine stickfighting, but management was divided on allowing me to carry a simple nightstick, and absolute NO! On my handbuilt ash tonfa. My greatest detractor, said it was useless, and since i was never observed reaching for it let alone deploying it, that i dident know how to use it! I was unable to get company approved training, and it stayed near the front door with my longer-than-2-d maglites when the state said No Weapons for private security. I had to be careful with keeping a cane in my car ("trick knee" left over from high school ), especially when my pov was office and patrol vehicle, lest some ninny nanny see and report it, and definitely not use it on duty. I could go months without needing it, but when i did, i still left it in the car and could still outwalk almost anybody else. Even working around a limp. " power thru it ! ".
We trained with the PR24 and the good ole night stick in Navy security guard school. I think I still have some bruises. The PR24 is a great defensive tool also.
The problem with some police gear is that its a pain to carry. Due to size, weight, bulky etc. When left in the patrol unit, many times you can't get it when needed. I whacked people with an old school baton, it tended to bounce out of my hand after a single hand strike since the handle was too big for my hand. Many smaller cops wouldn't carry them because of that. Try sitting in a patrol unit with one on your belt. Besides uncomfortable, they got hung up in the seat, and seat belts when you needed to get out fast.
The ASP was a great upgrade mainly because it was available on the gun belt and not real heavy. I whacked people with several over the years. One battle against 3 thugs, I bent the shaft of an ASP. I had 3 ASP batons over the years, they do wear out. With yearly training most cops became good using them. When Tasers became issued, the batons, ASPs hardly got used. Nowadays the MRT guys are about the only cops who use a baton.
The ASP was a great upgrade mainly because it was available on the gun belt and not real heavy. I whacked people with several over the years. One battle against 3 thugs, I bent the shaft of an ASP. I had 3 ASP batons over the years, they do wear out. With yearly training most cops became good using them. When Tasers became issued, the batons, ASPs hardly got used. Nowadays the MRT guys are about the only cops who use a baton.
Many years ago I worked in a maximum security prison. I have seen batons in use more than once with varying results. They can give a gentle nudge or a guided tour of the solar system depending on how the thumpee responds or the thumper handles the stick.
Some of the guards used to direct the convicts by tapping the stick on the wall. 1 tap for go, 2 taps for stop, and 3 taps for Quiet in the line. If there was a 4th tap it was usually delivered to the idiot who was not listening to the commands. Someone complained that it was dehumanizing to direct the convicts by that method so the bleeding heart liberals stopped the practice.
I have an old Cocobolo Billy that belonged to a street cop in the 1930s. It has teeth marks in the sweet spot and is so hard that it rings like a bell when you suspend it with a piece of string and knock on it with something hard.
Some of the guards used to direct the convicts by tapping the stick on the wall. 1 tap for go, 2 taps for stop, and 3 taps for Quiet in the line. If there was a 4th tap it was usually delivered to the idiot who was not listening to the commands. Someone complained that it was dehumanizing to direct the convicts by that method so the bleeding heart liberals stopped the practice.
I have an old Cocobolo Billy that belonged to a street cop in the 1930s. It has teeth marks in the sweet spot and is so hard that it rings like a bell when you suspend it with a piece of string and knock on it with something hard.
Armybrat
Hunter
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Use Of Force policy dictates that an adversary armed with a stick isn't dealt with by using another stick.
He gets dealt with in lead, therefore no trip to the ER for the officer. That's the whole point of the Use Of Force Matrix.
I carry a gun, and I am well trained in its use. Before I carry any other weapon, I will be well trained in its use.
So far, available training for civlians using batons (in California) has not caught up with what the law allows.
So far, available training for civlians using batons (in California) has not caught up with what the law allows.
Gopher
Blackhawk
My sister is left handed and was a master with that. Talk about a weapon if used properly. I still have lumps from that thing.
Joseph Wambaugh went into a nice discussion on the use of the baton vs the ASP in one of the Hollywood Station books. He said some agencies have review boards for every incident where it is used, just like a shooting.
Hagar the horrible, advice to son hamlet; beware lefthanded swordsmen.
If a civilian meets a stock with "lead" they'll go to jail and likely be convicted and imprisoned. Heck shoot a knife user and the same is likely to happen.
Different rules for police and civilians. Heck if a beat guy like me uses a stick on a young & strong unarmed attacker they will likely be arrested.
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That's all entirely dependent on where one lives & the specifics of the incident. No shortage of jurisdictions that are pro victim/anti criminal.
Nowadays I would be surprised if any police agency did not require a use of force report and some type of review. Risk Management sure wants them. Basically, any incident where cops go hands on or further up the use of force scale. Before I retired, just unholstering the service gun required the on duty person in charge be notified. A report if you point a gun at a crook.My sister is left handed and was a master with that. Talk about a weapon if used properly. I still have lumps from that thing.
Joseph Wambaugh went into a nice discussion on the use of the baton vs the ASP in one of the Hollywood Station books. He said some agencies have review boards for every incident where it is used, just like a shooting.
