9mm Automatic...opinions on this.

[modrifle3]

I read an article about a round that was being prototyped call the 9mm automatic. It is basically a straight walled 9x19. With out the taper it prevents round dive in high capacity mags. It works in std 9x19 chambers and really aids in feeding flat nose and hollow point rounds.

I believe Winchester actually made a factory load. Cases are made from cutting down a particular rimless .38 super casing.

 

[Mobuck]

Answer to (what I consider) a nonexistent question.

 

[contender]

I agree with mobuck. Between the normal 9mm, and the 38 Super,,, I see this as going the way of the 9x21.

 

[5of7]

The 9MM Parabellum has been around for so long and performed so well in the overall sense, that it takes a pretty good substitute to nudge it into obsolescence.

I have never experienced the problem with the 9MM that was cited above, but then I don't go in that much for hi-capacity magazines. 8)

 

[Ale-8(1)]

This is likely the article referred to . . .

http://www.shootingtimes.com/2014/03/26/9mm-automatic-better-9mm-cartridge/?utm_source=ENL%2DST&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily+Newsletters

The guy has a PHD so I suppose we must listen to him.

I did, however, correspond with IOWEGAn who agrees with Mobuck's opinion . . . as do I.

 

[modrifle3]

I think perhaps this is taken out of context as it doesn't require any change to weapon ... It appears to just be a change in case shape that is still with in sammi specs. Sort of like a rimless .38 super. I just wonder if any companies use this case spec.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Clarification: the 9x19 SAAMI spec shows a tapered case, so this cartridge isn't "in spec" for this chambering. It will feed/chamber, of course.

The article is interesting, though, from the standpoint of technical manipulations.

 

[modrifle3]

Correct but the variances of in spec allow its safe function. Seems this would better feed in sub machine gun style 9mm magazines.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Yes, it's essentially a little "undersized" for the SAAMI chamber, which should certainly not hurt chambering. And the overall design might prove more useful in the long SMG magazines.

 

[modrifle3]

This is why I say .... LONG LIVE the .45 AUTO lol

 

[Jimbo357mag]

A straight case in a tapered chamber? I see possible problems with case integrity? I wouldn't want to reload for it.

...just my opinion.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

The .38 Super is another chambering wherein a cylindrical case is stuffed into a tapered chamber, but the Super is in fact rimmed whereas the "9mm Automatic" has a rim the same diameter as the cylindrical case and this happens to be .380" as opposed to the .391" chamber "mouth". Not a lot of difference. Shouldn't present any more resizing problems than the .38 Super.

The .25 Auto is another that is spec'd with a cylindrical case and tapered chamber.

As a matter of fact, the .45 Colt is spec'd with a cylindrical case and a slightly tapered chamber. Of course the brass is sized cylindrical every time it goes thru the carbide sizing die. Doesn't seem to be a problem.

Same thing applies any time a 9x19 is resized, as well. Heck, even the .357 Mag has the cylindrical case, tapered chamber arrangement.

Just an observation . . .

 

[stevemb]

Since I've known a few people with the 33rd Glock 9mm mags known as "Happy Sticks", and they are still happy, um, why ? I don't see this as a good idea.

 

[stevemb]

OK, read thru the article now. Technically it makes some sense. But I've 1000's of rounds thru my 9mms and seen millions go downrange. The "flawed" 9mm round has been in use since 1902. I wish I was that flawed. I'm just not able to work up any enthusiasm over this.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

IMHO it's a study seeking a purpose. As far as I can tell the cylindrical case will only be of any appreciable benefit in very hi-cap mags where the cartridge stack gets overly "tall". It has been pretty well established that the stack height in realistic pistol magazines doesn't present any insurmountable difficulties that cannot be overcome by proper magazine design.

 

[5of7]

I think that it would be better to devote attention to magazine design, rather than to shoot straight walled ammunition in tapered chambers. 8)

 

[Ale-8(1)]

No argument there. Seems to have been working out quite well for a long time . . . even with the extended, SMG-type mags.

I admit to zero experience with these long mags, however.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Call it whatever you like, the .38 Super has a rim diameter of .406" compared to the cylindrical case body diameter of .384" and the chamber specification calls out a counterbored recess to exactly accept this rim. In addition, the chamber is bored deeper than the case length so the cartridge does, in fact, seat on the rim, not the case mouth.

All this as opposed to the 9x19 which does have a very slight rim but whose tapered chamber is bored large enough to accept the rim while seating on the case mouth.

You might say that the 9x19 is semi-rimmed, if you like, as compared to the .38 Super.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

I just reported what the SAAMI spec illustrations show.

The .38 Super has a pronounced rim and the chamber drawing, as I mentioned, provides for that rim in establishing the headspace against the bolt face.

I'd agree we might consider the 9x19 as being essentially "rimless" as far as functioning with the chamber specs.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Oh, I'm not arguing with you. I'm just pointing out what the "standards" for these chamberings are. Whether the manufacturers decide to deviate from the standards is perhaps of interest to folks trying to understand the situation. Frankly, if the manufacturers do in fact sorta create oddball variations it will remain to be seen what happens to the entire industry.

In the past, SAAMI has revised their specs to suit manufacturers, case in point being the reduction in "standard pressures" in the .357 Magnum. That, of course, didn't change any specs for the size of cartridges and/or chambers, but the precedent was set nevertheless.

I also haven't found any SAAMI specs for Super Comp or Super Lapua, so the whole matter is rather moot with respect to them. Interesting developments.

 

[DGW1949]

Once upon a time, Both the .38ACP and the .38 Super used a rimmed case (or "semi-rim"if you prefer) for headspacing the cartridge and a roll crimp on the bullet. Somewhere along the line BarSto began chambering their 1911 barrels so's that they headspaced on the case mouth instead, which of course meant that any ammo used with their barrel could no longer be crimped in the conventional manner. The idea there being to eliminate the accuracy problems inherent with headspacing the cartridge off of the somewhat skinny rim, which to make matters worse, also varied in thickness from one manufacturer to another. Since then, I'm being told that many (if not all) gun manufactures are chambering their barrels in a simular fashion......which brings me to a couple of questions;

Is currently made commercial .38 Super ammo still being made with a crimped bullet, without a roll crimp"....or is it an option?.....or is uncrimped .38 Super ammo still strictly a handloading proposition?

DGW

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Couple of good questions, indeed.

If manufacturers are not abiding by the SAAMI specs, how does one know what he should buy, or even what's readily available, and can he buy ammo for these guns?

 

[WESHOOT2]

I note 38 Super-chambered autos 'headspace' on their extractor, and 38 Super-chambered revolvers 'headspace' on their moonclip........