1860 Army Blackhawk

[Sharps40]

This may be premature. I ain't made no measurements yet. And I see that #1 Tardeddoggy has given both a healty slobber snort while I had my back turned.....but, with a bit of luck I hope to marry the Slimmer Finer 1860 Colt Army 44 brass grip to the new model Ruger Blackhawk. I think we'll be leaving the barrel around 5 to 5.5" for use as a hunter.....5 being the minimum length for handgun hunting deer and such in many states. If this 2 piece/flat spring grip is a no go then perhaps a true Birds Head grip or better, a custom birdshead shape. Grips I'm leaning towards redwood burl or bloodwood.

So, as a place holder while I sip good Bourbon and think over the road ahead.....

 

[Sharps40]

The overall condition seems great. Plenty tight and timed well. A few freckles but the bluing is pretty darn good. Number one on the list was peeling back them dayumed ugly pachmeyers, why anybody'd put em on a single action while still sober is beyond me. But...there ain't no stupid locking mechanism under there so I'm happy!....

 

[Sharps40]

Born on date is......drum roll......1974. So this one is just barely a New Model.

 

[Sharps40]

Rough measurement of the frame and grip with calipers indicates the widths and heights are close, may work. The trigger guard area is wider than the Ruger Frame too, so we should be able to fit the cheep part to the spensive part.

Eyeball wise, screw holes appear close....I'll know more when I try to fit some parts for the first time.

Looking at the two grips together.....I like the 1860 and beat up walnut lots more than the rubber Stinkmeyers.

No medallion and no grip screw....smaller and rounder too.

Here the 1860 overlaid onto the New Model Blackhawk and the Suckwilies rubber grip....

And here, the 1860 compared to a vintage and near like new in box Old Model (3 Screw, 1968) 357 Blackhawk. The 1860 grip is rounder and a scooch longer, more pinkie wrap friendly and what you can't see.....when installed it should be a bit closer to the trigger....

 

[Sharps40]

Its a forgone conclusion, if the grip fits, a Stainless Bisley hammer is gonna be needed.

 

[Sharps40]

Step one is seeing if the 1860 Army Colt brass grip frame will fit the New Model Blackhawk frame. Whether is does or not....a fit is no guarantee it'll work in the end. I still need to make up a plan for cylinder bolt spring and plunger, trigger return spring and coil mainspring assembly. That plus see if I have room left to make up true one piece grips or if I have to default to a two piece grip.....lots of sittin on the milk crate sippin bourbon without getting drunk.

But for now, we see that the back strap is a direct bolt up. The slot for the hammer notch is a bit wide and we might either rebush the frame screw holes for the small head ruger screws or get some screws with bigger heads that will fit the ruger....but first touch is a good one and two screws home free.

The trigger guard and lower grip strap...two of three ruger screws driven home thru the Colt Army holes. Again, could consider either bushing the holes or larger headed screws. The front screw hole is as I thought, a bit out of line...so I'll have to fill that and redrill the brass trigger guard to match the ruger frame. But this is good....4 out of 5 ruger grip screws in place and snugged down and the brass parts are a whisker proud of the steel frame...so room to fit the width to perfection.

Final rough assembly looks pretty spanky good.

 

[Sharps40]

Some size comparisons between the 1860 Army Colt grip frame and the New Model Ruger grip frame.

The grip is not as thick front to back and the trigger guard is closer to the grip than the ruger.

This is the rough positioning of the ruger mainspring assembly in the 1860 Army Colt frame. Close and may need a bit of relief along the lower loop. In addition, the original 1860 Army Colt flat spring mounting screw should make a nice spot for a mainspring bracket....something for it to push on. Its going to be a tight fit for sure.

 

[Sharps40]

Here are some comparisons of the assembled 1860 Army Colt grip on the Ruger New Model Blackhawk as compared to a pristine and bone stock 1968 Ruger Old Model 3 Screw Blackhawk. (Comparisons to the 3 screw are made cause I don't have wood for the New Model frame....just an ugly Pacmeyer and I don't want my old model wood buggered by movin it around on frames. But, the comparison's below to the Old Model frame should be close enough to the New Model to give one an ider of the changes.)

The 1860 Army Colt grip has a lot less wood down the back than the Old Model, effectively allowing smaller hands to reach the trigger.

The 1860 Army Colt grip has a lot less wood all the way around than the Old Model. It'll be more pinkie wrap friendly for everybody.

The 1860 Army Colt grip is lots longer than the Old Model.

From above you can see the 1860 Army Colt grip is smaller and slightly more forward than the Old Model.

With the faces of the recoil shields lined up we can see some differences in the thickness and length of the trigger guard loop and plate where it attaches to the frame.

 

[Sharps40]

Time to fix the number one flaw in every New Model Blackhawk. Ya can't pull the cylinder pin out of the frame cause its a couple of fingernails thickness too long.

Nice big bulbus rounded end smacks into the ejector button and ya can't get the cylinder pin out for cleaning....at least not without unscrewing the ejector rod housing from the barrel which leads to boogered screw heads and in short order a set of stripped threads in the barrel and yer off to the gunsmith hopin for a repair an not a new barrel.

Grind off the bulbusness, smooth it over slightly round....

Slip it in past the ejector rod button, nice, lotsa room to swing it in and out now, then stab it home and yer done.

Way too long barrel with ugly front sight is shortened a bit. I'll leave the factory barrel 5.1" right now and square, chamfer and crown it. That clears the Ruger Instruction Manual on the Left side.....havn't decided if I'll polish it off for a clean look. But, 5.1" is a good length for a hunting handgun and like I said, a minimum hunting barrel length in several states. The Ruger Lightning on top has a 3.5" barrel and ejector rod assembly....its also set up so that the cylinder pin can be removed without taking off the entire ejection system. Ya should be able to clean and inspect the major components of a Blackhawk without tools and touching up the length of the cylinder pin gets you 100% there.

Initial square, crown and chamfer, done with piloted hand tools as described in my many threads on gunsmithing.

So, todays work....a quick look. I think its coming together nicely. Still need a front sight selection and some other cosmetic metal work....and naturally, some long hours with the 1860 Army Colt brass grip frame.

 

[Sharps40]

Boy O....the New Model Blackhawk frame is noticeable longer than the Old Model. Like 3/16" or so on the calibrated eyeball.

A quick look at the trigger to guard relationships. Mainspring too. Hammer to complete the picture and kinda help rough in the locations of the parts.

This is lookin good so far, some work, but perhaps not insurmountable.

The feel of that grip is pretty excellent. I'll have to get it together and put on a try sight for some shooting. I'm wondering if a bisley hammer is going to be so low when cocked that the hand will be in its way.

 

[TucsonDirt]

Loved your Lightning project, subscribed to follow this one.
Looking good so far!

 

[Sharps40]

She-it! Its fun. Hard part is they's sposed to be projects and I kept the first en, and I dunno whats gonna happen wit this en!

 

[Sharps40]

Getting some of the front end stuff done cause its gonna be the same whether its 1860 Army Colt or Birdshead out back.

So. A pic of where its at and usein my standard methods, duct tape a try sight, in this case a shortened Williams ramp into place with a 3/32" brass bead....just to start getting a feel for how a slimmer trimmer ramp sight with removable blades might look. May have to epoxy this into place for a shooting test before going final.

Did the cylinder chamfer. Not much to it. Run it both ways in the drill press or if not reversible, run it one way up and one way down to get an even chamfer on both sides of the flutes. (the file cuts hardest at the leading edge of each flute, so your chamfer looks tapered wide to narrow between the flutes unless you reverse directions to even it up....it ain't no lathe remember? Also, not too deep, so as not to uncover the back of the barrel, just to the bottom of the flute or shallower is fine.) Then some work with 120 grit backed by a file to remove almost all o the pitting on the cylinder. Just a touch left near one locking notch. I don't know iffin it'll come out or not. I'll get back to it later....this cylinder may get an experimental home caustic blue before final polish and finishing out the entire gun. We'll see.

A quick tour around the rough assembly as it stands now.

The lettering sure is ugly and the back of the ramp could use a bit of thinning.

But the Operational View is pretty spankey right on....

 

[Sharps40]

We should know more in a few weeks. I want to get all the front half metal work done to about the 80% level and then pull the wood stock and see how much trouble I'm gonna be in with the Colt grip. Theys a lot of butt scratching and head rubbin to do back there if it stands any chance at all of comin out functional an reliable.

Challenges include:

a. Room and fitting the mainspring assembly and its foot.
b. Fitting either of two possible trigger return springs, new or old model style.
c. Opening the trigger slot in the guard and/or thinning the trigger.
d. Drilling the trigger guard for the locking bolt spring and plunger.
e. Filling one hole in the trigger guard and redrilling it to match the forward most grip screw hole.
f. And, modifying the original wood grip for clearance of all the new guts in the grip or making up a two piece grip panel or both.

 

[SATCOM]

Sharps40,

Looking forward to seeing more of your work,
.

SATCOM

 

[awp101]

I've done the Army gripframe swap onto an Uberti .44/40 SAA knock off, but this is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish!

Subscribed... :mrgreen:

 

[Sharps40]

Actually I was looking at the uberti two piece grips with coil main spring before selecting the readily available (free) 1860 Army Colt frame! Prolly wind up with some version of the uberti coil spring mount or the bowen/keith #5 z bar arrangement. I am more sure I can make the 1860 Army Colt work now that I've seen two methods for the foot and coil spring. I think the trigger return spring will also be workable....so that just leaves the locking bolt return spring and the front screw hole! It feels like progress but I still havn't put tool to metal out back so that's all it is for now....a feeling.

 

[Sharps40]

I was asked to explain the purpose of the black powder/colt style cylinder chamfer I put on this cylinder and the Blackhawk Lightning. My response is as follows.....

Its up to an expensive custom touch that if you can say it does anything of value, it nominally accomplishes the following three things....

1. may mimic the look of a Colt cylinder

2. may ease transition into a tight leather holster

3. may empty yer wallet against more useful customization (sights, grips, trigger job, etc.) if you pay to have it done

 

[Sharps40]

German to your Afrikans....

Ich an Gott und meine Blackhawk vertrauen

 

[awp101]

German to your Afrikans....

Ich an Gott und meine Blackhawk vertrauen

A Blackhawk and a Mauser make a nice general purpose battery in my book. :mrgreen:

 

[Sharps40]

So, together then....

Ich an Gott und meine Mauser und Blackhawk vertrauen

 

[Sharps40]

Time for the big reveal and the photos that inspire this project. Though there is no hard and fast build data for an 1860 Army Colt grip on a Ruger Blackhawk....here are the inspirational photographs lifted from the web.

Up first is the Uberti 2 piece grip frame set up for coiled main spring. Missing here is grip frame mounted provision for trigger return spring. However, the foot of the main spring is robust if not allowing for easy compression and handling of the mainspring assembly out of the frame.

And here, from Bowen naturally, the Keith #5 grip assembly for the Blackhawk. Though a bit larger than the 1860 Army Colt, a well thought out design, both foot, easily removed mainspring and provision for the new model trigger return spring.

Some study and try fit time will be requried before determining whether to use one or the other methods or some hybred of the two (and whether to use one system for the mainspring and reverting the 1860 Army Colt grip frame to Old Model Blackhawk pin/plunger trigger return mounted low and behind the trigger in a hole or mounting block)

 

[Sharps40]

Unfortunatly, the Bowen #5 Keith Grip Frame uses, two piece grip panels with screw and eustucean.

 

[Sharps40]

Since I'm sure now this will be Dads for Christmas, likely early during hunting season...Went ahead and ordered everything for the front end. This will get the overall picture complete while I vet out the possible grip frames.

Williams giblock for dovetails. Allows Dovetailing the barrel for the frontsight and options to go with ramp and dovetail beads or a simple dovetail sight like the lightning project.
Williams shorty ramp, steel, 9/32" high.
Williams brass 3/32" bead, .250" high.
Story blued steel Birds Head (looks like a bulls eye) ejector rod.
Story blued steel Ejector rod housing.
I know I said I prolly wouldn't need it but it'll sure look fine....stainless steel Ruger Bisley Hammer.

Dayum....gonna be a nice gun....

 

[Sharps40]

Tweaking and tuning on the Blackhawk last evening and found out the rear sight adjustment screw is a bit long. When ya run the sight all the way to the bottom, it binds on the back of the cylinder. A kiss from a file fixed it for good...so later there won't be a sticky cylinder or worse, ugly mark in fresh bluing and the rear sight will go fully up and down with out worries.

 

[Sharps40]

Thanks again to UPS, parts will be delayed another day or two since they inventively drop small packages off at USPS for extra handling and delayed delivery.

So, to the grip, specifically, making some room for the mainspring to function fully and without bind.

The inner loop is reground (between the black hash marks) slightly flatter, much like the Keith #5 grip frame. Still leaves about twice the metal as the rear loop so plenty strong....no worries.

Looking inside the lower loop of the grip, additional clearance for the spring is available when a concave groove is ground and this also leaves as much metal in the grip as possible for strength. I think its more than adequately strong and will last the long haul.

Looking at the top of the outer loop, a very slight bevel is filed in to allow the mainspring strut to swing in its arc unbound no matter where the foot of the mainspring is positioned. I have a bisley hammer on the way and given I'll probably fit the grip frame to the larger base of the bisley hammer, this bevel may be unnecessarily....i.e. disappear in the fitting of the grip loop to the fat bottomed bisley hammer.

Another view of the concave clearance channel ground into the lower grip loop....the old flat mainspring screw hole at the bottom should make a fine spot to mount a z-bar for the mainspring to push against. (For now, I'll probably make up an oak block to start checking function and range of compression then convert to a steel z-bar using the wood block as template.)

I have enough space now to run the mainspring rather close to the lower loop or anywhere in between. I may well just go with two piece grips as it'll be about the easiest for installing the new model trigger return spring and allow positioning the foot of the mainspring more centered in the grip. Photos below show the compressed mainspring assembly wagged into place hammer back and hammer forward.

 

[Sharps40]

The Ruger banner, bane of the New Models. Full instructions on being careful. It goes all the way out to the newly cut end.....5.1" inches of unnecessary roll mark.

Dad and I been around a good bit.....we are not likely to need the caution to be careful or write Ruger in CT for a copy of the instruction manual.....so....

A few minutes work draw and cross filing with a single cut basterd file (note its lightly filed/blended nearly to the frame and all the way to the muzzle) and though it'll need some good polish work later.....ugly Ruger Banner is gone and the gun will look all the better for it later. Its a few thousands removed, like draw filing out pits. Some bootstrapping with sandpaper later will blend the circumference and finish the entire barrel nicely for bluing.....for now.....still waitin for parts so I can dovetail the barrel and install gib lock for the ramp or a tall dovetail front sight.

[/I]

 

[Sharps40]

Good sharp files, pushed and not pulled leave little work for sanding and polishing. A few minutes bootstrap with 120g to blend the barrel and initial polish out the age marks all around...

and, the Former Ruger Banner side looks clean and fine.

The ejector side looks pretty good too. Good threads in the barrel and the ejector housing screw so no repairs to do there....a dollop of blue locktite will be all it needs at final reassembly now that the cylinder pin can be removed without having to entirely remove the ejector rod and housing assembly.

Initial back bevel is started at the frame to get rid of that ugly Bull Nose over the barrel. This can be left sloped back or under cut slightly to look a bit more like a Smith and Wesson frame.

Backing out just a bit to look at the nose job.....coming together a bit at a time....once the ears are off and the lengthwise edges broken/softened, I think it'll pull together nicely.

 

[Sharps40]

Parts arrived. Good and bad...but the bad are useable and their flaws lend opportunity for a custom touch.

Steel Story ejector rod tube bolts right up....fits nice, ejector and spring function without bind. However, I ordered the 3/16 size for my 3/16 screw. The screw hole is bored over 1/4 straight thru...i.e. no shoulder on the bottom for the screw to hold the housing to the barrel...the screw drops thru. But its pretty.

Ruger alloy housings are not bored straight thru...the hole next to the barrel is smaller so the ejector rod screw head pinches the ejector housing in place. Not so, this Story part. The Big Round Birdshead ejector looks nice....wonder how it'll look as a Ring Ejector....still a bit peeved about the housing but its customizable.

I think rather than fight and spend to ship and receive and wait for another part to come in that may have the same straight thru bolt hole....I'll just fill the end with a nice steel rod or better, brass rod....step bore the rod my ownself and reinstall the ruger bolt and done. If I use brass I'll get a nice brass bullseye out front in the center of the black ejector rod housing. Nifty. More work but better than the hassle with parts. Hmmm....I wonder if I can simply bush that with a nice brass or copper sleeve and then step bore it....then it would have a brass ring like the steel ejector rod button....

Stainless steel Bisley hammer looks nice. Probably needs polished and some engine turning on the sides.

The ramp front sight base. Gib lock and screw are options. I can solder, screw or screw and gib lock into place. I may screw and gib lock using a dovetail. Its plenty strong and allows for changing front sights from ramp with no windage to dovetail blade with windage. However, it may not look as neat as a whisker of dovetail will likely show on each side of the ramp. Still thinkin it over, but cutting a dovetail is simpler with a hand jig and file for a home smith than jigging up Top Dead Center and drilling and tapping a hole or silver soldering the ramp in place.

Getting an ider of how the ramp will look out at the end of the barrel. Needs a bit of fitting to match the barrel contour perfect before the install. Might do that tonight.

Meantime, I found a nice section of steel in the junk box to make up the foot for the mainspring....after I make up the wood test block as the template to follow.

 

[Sharps40]

Dovetailing the front sight is as you've seen before. Ususally the dovetails are .1" or less deep and the Blackhawk .357 barrel is plenty thick for a dovetail.

Jig in place and squared with the frame, hacksaw, file and otherwise remove the metal layed out by the jig. Remember, the jig makes a dovetail a bit too small for a .375 sight base....that's intended. You file in a slight lead on the sight base and finish up the dovetail with a safe sided file that allows for a tight push fit 1/3 of the way and drift or sight pusher to fully seat the sight. Some folks piss and moan that the jig doesn't cut the right size dovetail....they gotta learn to use it. Cut small, fit tight, right the first try.

If you were careful with the leveling and the layout and filing, you wind up with a nice clean dovetail that is going to give you a straight up and down sight blade out front.

Clean up the sight undercuts with a safe sided file until the gib lock is a slightly snug tap in fit....center up the gib lock in the dovetail. A good dovetail has razor sharp edges. As evidenced by the blood and the smooth but snug fit of the giblock, this is a good dovetail. I'll break those sharp edges later before bluing.

Test fit the ramp in the giblock and its wiggly, the screw is about a thread and a half too long. To get a nice square cut on a short screw that won't need any chamfering to enter the gib lock again, simply clamp gently in a wiring plyers and knock off the unwanted thread with a single cut bastage file.