worst reloading instructions ever.

[demo_slug]

black-powder in a 223. really.

http://www.ehow.com/how_7339139_remington-_223-reloading-instructions.html :roll:

 

[mattsbox99]

Wow, that is seriously bad advice! Never use black powder in any bottle neck rifle case. BP behaves dramatically different than smokeless powder.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Must be the same guy that built his own gun with rubber bands and twine. :shock: :?

My favorite part: Difficulty: Moderate

...jimbo[/i]

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

As much as it's overused today, this does seem a perfect place for a big OMG! :shock:

I'm not sure anybody should trust eHow for much to start with, and I'm convinced absolutely nobody should trust 'em when dealing w/ stuff that goes "BOOM!"

Rick C

 

[pyth0n]

What's really sad is someone is going to try this.

 

[demo_slug]

its almost like he copied some bad instructions for shoot shell reloading and changed it for 223. there is a ton wrong it.

 

[Anonymous]

I love the warnings ...

Make sure you have a Remington reloading book with all of the reloading information.

Hmm ... for the life of me all I can find is a Lyman, Lee, Nosler, Sierra, Barnes, Hornady ...

 

[Jimbo357mag]

This guy might rival the 'Mall Security Guy' for stupidest Internet posts of all time. Is there more online from him? I bet he is just a fountain of firearms knowledge with that book and all. :roll: :roll: LMAO

...Jimbo

 

[gramps]

Sounds like an anti-gunner out for revenge.
gramps

 

[don44]

A lot of bad information out there I guess.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Never trust a recipe that calls for "Black powered". (Note, this is not meant to be racist in any way; This joker actually has that listed this way under, "Things you'll need".)

LiveStrong, indeed.

-- Sam

 

[Lost Sheep]

That kind of insanely dangerous misinformation makes me REALLY want to make sure new entrants to the shooting sports and reloading get good information from reliable sources.

I wonder if Chuck Hawk would be interested in the fact that this yahoo has included a link to his web site. Maybe Chuck could sue for defamation.

I also note that a campaign ad for Joe Miller (The Republican candidate for U.S. Senate in my state of Alaska) appears alongside the negligent misinformation.

Question: Do other viewers from other states see the Joe Miller ad or do they see different (regionally targeted) ads?

Thanks in advance for anyone who replies to my question.

Truly scary web site which goes to prove the adage, "Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet ."

Lost Sheep

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Question: Do other viewers from other states see the Joe Miller ad or do they see different (regionally targeted) ads?

Every time I go there I see different ads, none political though. In fact that Chuck Hawks reference was only there one time. The other reloading articles (.17, 41 magnum etc.) are almost as bad. How can you do a how-to article on re-loading in two or three paragraphs? :roll: :roll:

...Jimbo

 

[Lost Sheep]

Making the assumption that the people at eHow and Livestrong would care if one of their members injured themselves, I sent this message through their "Contact Us" utility.

I noticed some dangerous advice on one of your contributors' postings. I thought you would want to know.

http://www.ehow.com/how_7339139_remington-_223-reloading-instructions.htm

It talks about loading black powder into a 223 Remington cartridge case and suggests "fill the case". He goes on to suggest 20 to 22 grains (weight) of powder.

Reloading is not an essentially dangerous activity, but to assemble what amounts to a small explosive device without complete understanding is to invite disaster.

Black Powder's burning characteristics is substantially different from modern smokeless powders.

This contributor has posted an encouragement for someone to injure themselves. That such dangerous information is available on your web site calls into question everything I find there. In other words, as long as that nonsense is up, it will be hard to believe anything I find on livestrong or ehow.

Wikipedia and others have ways of vetting their information. Consider this message my tiny contribution to your process.

Thanks for reading

Larry Schuller (Lost Sheep on the forums "Rugerforum.com", "accuratereloading.com", "TheFiringLine.com" and others.)

I encourage others, more expert than I am, to also send information to the web site hosts and make our world a little safer.

Lost Sheep

 

[Lost Sheep]

(edited for focus)
How can you do a how-to article on re-loading in two or three paragraphs? :roll: :roll:

...Jimbo

I think it can be done. The offending article has 196 words.

Anyone who has read my posts knows how much of a challenge it is for me to fit ANYTHING into a limited number of words, but I will try it.

Anyone else want to try composing an article outlining (or detailing) loading metallic cartridges? Maybe one each for straight-walled cases and for bottlenecked?

Target audience would be a novice shooter with NO knowledge of firearms' inner workings. Only that metal round things go in one end and bullets come out the other end, very fast. Goal is to inform the reader sufficiently to

1) encourage safety and

2) cover the main points of the process such that the reader could actually

a) load a cartridge on four conventional single-stage presses (i.e. already set up with the dies adjusted and named, 1 Sizer-Decapper, 2 Case Mouth Belling, 3 Bullet Seating 4, Bullet Crimping) and

b) understand what they did.

I will try to do it in 500 words. I expect any number of my fellow denizens of Rugerforum.com could do it in 300. Maybe take an extra 75 if you explain headspace for rimless cartridges.

If I can manage to write an article (I will do straight-walled), I will start a thread next Saturday entitled "Shortest Reloading Manual in the World-Straight-walled edition".

Lost Sheep

 

[Hillbilly Jim]

To Mattsbox
What about all the factory bottleneck black powder rounds?

 

[Rick Courtright]

I will try to do it in 500 words. I expect any number of my fellow denizens of Rugerforum.com could do it in 300. Maybe take an extra 75 if you explain headspace for rimless cartridges.p

Hi, Larry

Anyone who has the patience or suffers enough from boredom to read thru my rambles knows I'm not one of those blessed w/ a gift for brevity.

I'd love to see how you fare: seems quite a challenge! I think the briefest instructions I've ever seen were on the little "instruction sheet" that came w/ the original Lee Loader back when it sold for $9.98 (LONG ago!) and even they might exceed that limit.

Best of luck and please share what you come up with w/ us, ok?

Rick C

 

[Tenbore]

That guy is a total IDIOT. A perfect example of why you should never use anyone's reloads.

 

[maxpress]

This is one of those things that you just can't stop laughing at then it hits you that he was being serious. And suddenly it's the unfuniest thing.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Wel, I haven't been able to boil it down to 500 words, but did find the rcbs.com has a guide (for bottleneck cartridges - haven't found one for straight-walled cases yet)

http://www.rcbs.com/guide/stepbystep.aspx
http://www.rcbs.com/guide/printsteps.html

Merry Christmas.

Lost Sheep

 

[Snake45]

I guess this is for people who think that ARs just don't have ENOUGH gas system issues/controversies. :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Pal Val]

I read the other instructions in that web site. Looks to me that they were written by people with the tongue firmly planted on the cheek. Either that, or the writer assumed that all his readers are idiots. :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Lost Sheep]

Pal Val, I don't think it was the tongue in the cheek, but another part of anatomy stuck up an even less likely bodily orifice.

However, to the credit of the web site, they have removed the offending article. Their article about loading the 41 Remington Magnum is much less dangerous.

Now, I have risen to my own challenge and finally composed reloading instructions for straight-walled cases and kept it to under 200 words. (just the text in the quote blocks)

Take a fired cartridge case.

Remove the spent primer.

The casing expanded when fired; squish it down to the original diameter-resizing.

Squishing it down made it too skinny to accept a new bullet; flare the case mouth just enough to do that.

Stick a new primer in the primer pocket.

Put a carefully measured proper propellant (gunpowder) charge in the case.

Stick a bullet in the mouth of the cartridge and press it into the cartridge to the proper depth.

Squeeze the case mouth to 1) remove the flare and 2) where proper, crimp into the sides of the bullet.

(100 words exactly, so far. Which leaves enough room for a little safety warning

Every place the word “proper” is found above, you must consult a loading manual for the proper specification.

(Then we can expand on the process so even the original author of the article that prompted this thread can understand

Human fingers do not have the strength or precision to do these tasks, so
specialized tools are used. A press provides leverage and keeps things aligned so the ammunition will be straight and round. Forming dies shape the ammunition with precision. Typically, there are three dies and 4 operations:

1) Resizing/depriming,
2) flaring/repriming,
3) -no die required here- charging with propellant/gunpowder and
4) bullet seating/crimping.

Anyone want to try describing the process for bottlenecked cartridges?

Lost Sheep

 

[mikld]

I certainly wouldn't try stuffing black powder in any case designed for smokeless, and there is a ton of criticism in the above posts (kinda like a bunch of fellers telling an inside joke that only they understand), but would anyone care to share exactly what would happen if one loaded a .223 (or any bottle necked case) with black? Anyone try it or just repeating what they heard? Not so much for my info. but perhaps a new reloader is thinking "Why?"

 

[mikld]

So, a lot of "don't do it" and "the guy is an idiot" posts, but nobody can explain why? Makes one wonder, does anyone know what they're talking about?... :roll:

 

[Jimbo357mag]

So, a lot of "don't do it" and "the guy is an idiot" posts, but nobody can explain why? Makes one wonder, does anyone know what they're talking about?... :roll:

Didn't you just say,
Quote> I reload for 5, .44 Magnums and not one load came by word of mouth, forum, or magazine article. I reloaded my first .44 in 1987 and all my data has come from published manuals... <end quote.

...so just for starters let's just say black powder in a .223 isn't in the manual. Rule #1, don't experiment unless you know what you are doing.

...now if you are looking for the science, good luck.

...if you had read the original article you would not be questioning why we all said it was really really stupid. It was like some 10 year old trying to explain how to reload cartridges after seeing his father do it one time.

 

[Hillbilly Jim]

I dont know why you shouldnt reload bottlenecks with black after all the original 30-30 was reloaded with black powder and the 32 special was even easier to reload. Then look at all the old and odd cartridges of the 1870s and 80s .
The real problem is getting the case full of the right amount of black, this would be a real problem with 223. I routinely load 32-20 with black as well as 38-40 and a few 44-40.
Loading black in a bottleneck is as simple as determining depth of bullet in case then fill with black so when bullet is seated a little compression takes place. Simple.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I dont know why you shouldnt reload bottlenecks with black after all the original 30-30 was reloaded with black powder and the 32 special was even easier to reload. Then look at all the old and odd cartridges of the 1870s and 80s .
The real problem is getting the case full of the right amount of black, this would be a real problem with 223. I routinely load 32-20 with black as well as 38-40 and a few 44-40.
Loading black in a bottleneck is as simple as determining depth of bullet in case then fill with black so when bullet is seated a little compression takes place. Simple.

A black powder .223 might work in a bolt-action rifle but as far as being a factory .223 equivalent, not even close. I don't think black powder pushes light bullets very well. The point of the complaints by members here was the way the author went about saying how to reload. It was much worse than amateur, it was dangerous. This was the same guy that made a gun out of a pipe barrel and had a nail as a firing pin. He was all about 'survival training' and making do with around-the-house stuff. He even had an underground bunker in his backyard with booby traps set around it. I'm glad those articles are gone, but they were head-scratching for sure.

 

[mikld]

Well, still a lot of talk but no facts...

How I determine what I load has no bearing on my question, and the reference was about I don't get any load data from any forum or person trying to be helpful as 98% of my data comes from published manuals. Which has nothing to do with loading black powder in modern bottle necked cases.

So is it all "gun shop talk" or are there any facts to support the "don't do it!" expert posts?

 

[Lost Sheep]

Well, still a lot of talk but no facts...

How I determine what I load has no bearing on my question, and the reference was about I don't get any load data from any forum or person trying to be helpful as 98% of my data comes from published manuals. Which has nothing to do with loading black powder in modern bottle necked cases.

So is it all "gun shop talk" or are there any facts to support the "don't do it!" expert posts?

What weight do you give to the ABSENCE of load data?

The presence of (authoritatively sourced) load data for any given powder/bullet/chambering combination indicates that a lab has vetted the combination. The absence of certain combinations may indicate it is unsafe, inadvisable, unsuitably inaccurate or just happens to be neglected. But the absence suggests (not mandates, but suggests) the combination should be used advisedly, if at all.

Having said that, most modern loading manuals neglect black powder altogether, devoting all their pages to smokeless. Dedicated black powder manuals might mention bottlenecked cartridges. I would contact the BP (and BP substitutes) manufacturers to see what their ballistics labs have to say.

Lost Sheep