Reloading ammo the Pakistani way [a.k.a.-"Reloading For Dummies!"]

[contender]

Well, as a hunter who's taken well over 150 whitetails,, and countless other animals over the 50 plus years of hunting,, and using archery, muzzleloaders, rifles, handguns, & shotguns,, I STILL approach each & every hunt with the knowledge that I can still miss, an animal can move at the last moment, be presented with an awkward angle, or many other things that can make a "sure" shot into a very bad hit. This is why I practice a lot. So I do worry about making a clean kill instead of feeling like I "know" I won't miss. There are NO guarantees in hunting, and by doing a lot of practicing I reduce the possibilities of my making a mistake.
In the last 2 times I planned an elk hunt with a handgun. I shot (2) SA revolvers almost daily for several months. I'd shoot (3) cylinders full in each gun daily. I started in late April,, and practiced daily until the day I'd leave for the hunt. I started shooting steel plates at 25 yds. After 3 days of shooting at 25 without a single miss,, I'd move the distance by 5 yds. If I missed a single target,, I'd start the count over. By November, I was easily hitting all my steel at 100 yds all the time. (100 yds is my longest bay so I couldn't practice any longer distances.) Now if you calculate the amount of shooting,, in rounded numbers,, that's 6 months, of 36 rounds a day. That comes out to 6480 rounds fired in round numbers. And that was just for the POSSIBILITY of me getting a chance at getting an elk in my sights. That didn't include all the USPSA competition or other shooting I did. A LOT more than 50-100 rounds a month.
Oh,, and all that ammo,, I cast, powder coated, sized, and handloaded it all.

Self defense against 2 legged or 4 legged attacks.
You may THINK you can react very quickly,,, buy my sharing the story about my friend, & my mother was to make a point about how a person who does practice a lot vs someone who didn't and the outcome. Jeff was able to react WITHOUT thinking quicker than the way my mother who tried to act AND think. Jeff lived & was successful in his reaction due to his skills. My mother was injured, beaten, and robbed because she was NOT practiced & prepared.

Age & speed.
I have several USPSA competitors who are in their 70's,, as well as a couple who are in their 80's. They do it just to keep in practice & keep their motor memory skills sharper. They know they are no longer young & as fast as they used to be. But many of them would surprise you at their abilities.

We as humans like to think we will "know what to do" or that we "can handle anything" if a bad situation suddenly happens. Back in 1998,, as a person who handgun hunted a lot, did a lot of shooting, etc,, if you had asked me then if I could handle myself,, I KNOW I would have said,, WITH A LOT OF CONFIDENCE that I could have. Yet,, I tried USPSA. I found out how good I WAS NOT!!!!!! I got an awakening about how much MORE I needed to expand my ideas about SD & practice. And now,, after almost 27 years of shooting USPSA regularly,, I STILL feel like I need more practice & could do a lot better.

I disagree that "practice makes perfect." I do say that "Practice makes us closer to perfect,, but we'll never be 100% perfect."

You have stated "I still ain't gonna put any lead in my guns. Dead set against it." That's fine for you. I find it a bit confusing as to why,, because lead has been used for centuries,, and is still the least expensive option for a lot of practice. And if your reasoning is that you don't feel it's good enough for hunting or SD purposes,, I can point to a good friend who went to Africa a few years ago, handgun hunted some big game including a Cape Buffalo,, and took them all with his hand cast, water quenched, powder coated bullets. All the game dropped with there, with one shot, except the Cape. It went down to one knee & it's nose,, and he quickly followed with a second shot. It stayed down. The PH required him to put an "insurance shot" into the brain as they approached it.
If your reasoning is that you experienced "leading" in the barrel,, then your ammo was not properly loaded for lead bullets. Proper sizing, knowing bore diameter, throats, hardness or softness of the alloy, are a few things a person needs to understand about shooting lead. I know,, I had the same problems in my 20's,, before I studied & learned of MY mistakes. And nowadays,, with powder coating,, which is a big game changer,, it's actually a lot easier.

So I ask,, just why are you so dead set against lead bullets in any form?

 

[TheTexasRAT]

Well, as a hunter who's taken well over 150 whitetails,, and countless other animals over the 50 plus years of hunting,, and using archery, muzzleloaders, rifles, handguns, & shotguns,, I STILL approach each & every hunt with the knowledge that I can still miss, an animal can move at the last moment, be presented with an awkward angle, or many other things that can make a "sure" shot into a very bad hit. This is why I practice a lot. So I do worry about making a clean kill instead of feeling like I "know" I won't miss. There are NO guarantees in hunting, and by doing a lot of practicing I reduce the possibilities of my making a mistake.
In the last 2 times I planned an elk hunt with a handgun. I shot (2) SA revolvers almost daily for several months. I'd shoot (3) cylinders full in each gun daily. I started in late April,, and practiced daily until the day I'd leave for the hunt. I started shooting steel plates at 25 yds. After 3 days of shooting at 25 without a single miss,, I'd move the distance by 5 yds. If I missed a single target,, I'd start the count over. By November, I was easily hitting all my steel at 100 yds all the time. (100 yds is my longest bay so I couldn't practice any longer distances.) Now if you calculate the amount of shooting,, in rounded numbers,, that's 6 months, of 36 rounds a day. That comes out to 6480 rounds fired in round numbers. And that was just for the POSSIBILITY of me getting a chance at getting an elk in my sights. That didn't include all the USPSA competition or other shooting I did. A LOT more than 50-100 rounds a month.
Oh,, and all that ammo,, I cast, powder coated, sized, and handloaded it all.

Self defense against 2 legged or 4 legged attacks.
You may THINK you can react very quickly,,, buy my sharing the story about my friend, & my mother was to make a point about how a person who does practice a lot vs someone who didn't and the outcome. Jeff was able to react WITHOUT thinking quicker than the way my mother who tried to act AND think. Jeff lived & was successful in his reaction due to his skills. My mother was injured, beaten, and robbed because she was NOT practiced & prepared.

Age & speed.
I have several USPSA competitors who are in their 70's,, as well as a couple who are in their 80's. They do it just to keep in practice & keep their motor memory skills sharper. They know they are no longer young & as fast as they used to be. But many of them would surprise you at their abilities.

We as humans like to think we will "know what to do" or that we "can handle anything" if a bad situation suddenly happens. Back in 1998,, as a person who handgun hunted a lot, did a lot of shooting, etc,, if you had asked me then if I could handle myself,, I KNOW I would have said,, WITH A LOT OF CONFIDENCE that I could have. Yet,, I tried USPSA. I found out how good I WAS NOT!!!!!! I got an awakening about how much MORE I needed to expand my ideas about SD & practice. And now,, after almost 27 years of shooting USPSA regularly,, I STILL feel like I need more practice & could do a lot better.

I disagree that "practice makes perfect." I do say that "Practice makes us closer to perfect,, but we'll never be 100% perfect."

You have stated "I still ain't gonna put any lead in my guns. Dead set against it." That's fine for you. I find it a bit confusing as to why,, because lead has been used for centuries,, and is still the least expensive option for a lot of practice. And if your reasoning is that you don't feel it's good enough for hunting or SD purposes,, I can point to a good friend who went to Africa a few years ago, handgun hunted some big game including a Cape Buffalo,, and took them all with his hand cast, water quenched, powder coated bullets. All the game dropped with there, with one shot, except the Cape. It went down to one knee & it's nose,, and he quickly followed with a second shot. It stayed down. The PH required him to put an "insurance shot" into the brain as they approached it.
If your reasoning is that you experienced "leading" in the barrel,, then your ammo was not properly loaded for lead bullets. Proper sizing, knowing bore diameter, throats, hardness or softness of the alloy, are a few things a person needs to understand about shooting lead. I know,, I had the same problems in my 20's,, before I studied & learned of MY mistakes. And nowadays,, with powder coating,, which is a big game changer,, it's actually a lot easier.

So I ask,, just why are you so dead set against lead bullets in any form?

Every bullet I shot from 5 years old to 33 years of age was lead, so I have used it a lot. And I never ever cleaned out a barrel as I always figure that the next bullet would do that for me. I always used factory ammo and never had a problem with leading that I know of.

Then I studied up on copper vs lead and I come to the conclusion that copper won the debate. And I do not like the idea of mixing the two in my barrels, so lead lost out. and yes lead cost way less but in my opinion it is less desirable over copper. I have bought some Hornady XTPs which are copper jacketed, but they will only be used in plinking as I do not like them. They cover the back side of the lead and the sides so that my barrel will not be touched by the lead nor will the hot burning powder cause lead gasses in the air that I breath. And I do not like the idea of biting down on lead either, so if any part of the lead might separates and gets into the meat I would not want that either. This is the least expensive bullets I am willing buy for my guns. I got some 250 grain and some 225 grain ones because the Copper bullets are 250 grains and 220 grains. I figure if I make them run the same speed it should have the same kick, but if they do not land the same then they would just be training me to miss. So I will see if both land the same or not. But I ain't putting no lead up against my barrels, nor will I use them for SD or hunting.

Now if I ever get a .22 LR I would use copper coated lead. They'll be cost effective as far as just practicing slinging a gun around. But as I said before I have shot so many rounds I just got tired/burned out of doing it. I started building ammo to survive what seemed to be hell coming this way, then Trump got in and started turning things around. I'll continue to finish what I started so I'll be prepared if the communist ever do succeed in getting their useful idiots to keep rioting and burning this country to the ground. That way if I get caught up in their mess I will have half a chance at fending them off until I can get to the woods and hunt and gather food if they destroy the economy. I ain't out to start anything just planning not to get caught up in it.

 

[jgt]

If I was a betting man, I would bet most ammo expended by those under arms there is supplied Russian factory ammo. Those pictured are likely the empty brass picked up and reloaded. My guess is, it is mostly shot into the air. No matter how crude it is, it can be deadly under some conditions.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

My guess is, it is mostly shot into the air

From my experiences there....your guess is spot on.....

 

[contender]

"yes lead cost way less but in my opinion it is less desirable over copper."

Quite a few hunters will disagree with this comment. Many prefer cast & properly fitted, designs of cast bullets over copper jacketed bullets. As I mentioned about my friend who took the Cape buff, and a few other critters in Africa. He was using cast, and ALL his critter fell right there. His Zebra dropped so fast,, the PH didn't see it fall. With cast you can get bullet designs that copper jacketed bullets don't have.
BUT,,, the Hornady XTP's are also regarded highly by hunters who prefer to use a copper jacketed bullet. That design is quite good.

Interesting comment. "the hot burning powder cause lead gasses in the air that I breath."
Do you shoot indoors only? If so,, doesn't the range have proper ventilation to pull the air/gases away from the shooters?

This comment; "I do not like the idea of biting down on lead either, so if any part of the lead might separates and gets into the meat I would not want that either."
I won't say that it doesn't happen,, but proper care of the meat when processing removes the chances a lot. Now,, in bird hunting,, using lead shot,, it does happen a lot more. Finding shot in small birds is well documented. But our discussion here has not been about bird hunting with shot,, so we'll stop there on that.
Proper butchering removes damaged meat to where fragments are left behind for the most part. And if eating a piece of lead were that important or dangerous,, a simple metal detector can find even tiny fragments.

This; "if I ever get a .22 LR I would use copper coated lead." I can promise you that the .22 LR ammo will strip away the copper wash they use in that ammo in rifles and handguns.

Prepping for whatever hell might come is also called "Being prepared." Long ago,, I thought I'd like to get all my brass loaded into ammo. Then as I've aged, gained a bit of wisdom,, I realized a few things. Sometimes,, ammo that has been loaded long ago, and aged a bit,, MIGHT not perform. Most often,, it can be just fine. Heck,, just yesterday,, I shot some .223 ammo I loaded in 1989,, that put nice tiny groups at 100 yds in a gun I was testing it's new trigger & accuracy.
But hand loaded ammo can not be sold,, nor do many people want to shoot another person's reloads. Components can be EASILY sold, stored & later used to make ammo as necessary. If I were to pass away,, my family would be able to recover more money from my components vs any of my handloads. So, long ago,, I started trying to shoot up older ammo I had loaded, and purchase the necessary components to allow me to be capable of making more as needed.
This includes casting & powder coating bullets.
A pound of lead sells for $1-$2 average. But 100 bullets will easily triple or quadruple (or more,) that amount per lb.

I FULLY respect your desires to only shoot specific types of bullets. I was just trying to figure out why the serious negativity against cast bullets. You also claimed to have gotten burned out shooting a lot. Fine, I see that happen to some people.

But in my mind,, as I've lived my whole life as a BSA Eagle Scout,, the motto; "Be Prepared" is ingrained into me. So I choose to shoot a lot,, train a lot, hunt a lot, and burn a lot of powder, in my quest to be as fully prepared for whatever life throws at me. And using cast bullets,, that I now powder coat (vs lubing) has been a way to allow me to shoot thousands of rounds annually.

 

[TheTexasRAT]

Quite a few hunters will disagree with this comment. Many prefer cast & properly fitted, designs of cast bullets over copper jacketed bullets. As I mentioned about my friend who took the Cape buff, and a few other critters in Africa. He was using cast, and ALL his critter fell right there. His Zebra dropped so fast,, the PH didn't see it fall. With cast you can get bullet designs that copper jacketed bullets don't have.
BUT,,, the Hornady XTP's are also regarded highly by hunters who prefer to use a copper jacketed bullet. That design is quite good.

I find copper jacketed lead as an excuse to allow lead to travel down my barrels. I won't even do copper coated ones. Sorry Berry. Yet the XTPs are for plinking only, not serious business. Solid copper for SD and hunting. And Silver for show.

Interesting comment. "the hot burning powder cause lead gasses in the air that I breath."
Do you shoot indoors only? If so,, doesn't the range have proper ventilation to pull the air/gases away from the shooters?

Only shoot outdoors, unless otherwise called for. Well there was that one time when I was dry fire practicing and forgot that I had put the bullets back into the revolver. Good thing I was taught to never point a gun at something I am not willing to destroy. I shot a water bottle as opposed to my favorite coffee cup. I was dead set against dry firing indoors but had watch a many of YouTube videos saying it was a good thing so I broke down and tried it. I would draw the revolver take aim and pull the trigger. I would pick and object that I did not care so much for and draw down on it. I would do this as I was watching videos and finally I got tired of doing it and decided to put the ammo back in and continued watching videos. Well on the spur of the moment, having forgotten that I had reloaded the revolver, I drew down on a water bottle and BOOM. Water went every where. Being it was a low pressure round it did not ring my ears. The bullet then traveled through a box and settled in a kitchen drawer. I stopped doing dry fire quick draws inside from that day on. Now I only play that game outside with an appropriate backstop.

Other than that no I do not shoot indoors, especially at any range where idiots have been known to be lurking with firearms, as they will (for a dollar) let just about anyone in their places. For now I have a few friends scatter between states that I shoot at when I visit, and all but two of them scar me with their lack of gun etiquettes. One was trained not to flag people with the guns while in the military and the other as a police officer, but the rest are still a bunch of hillbillies with no clue. They flag other people with their fingers on the trigger all the time. I have been trying to get them to understand that no accidental shooting could ever happen if - 1) no gun is ever pointed at another - 2) if one's finger is not on the trigger when they do accidently point the gun at someone else or even themselves. Basically at least these two rules have to be violated at the same time, so the more they practice not doing either the better the odds are if and when they do violate one. That is to say hopefully they will have made such a habit of doing neither to the point that if they did violate one by accident hopefully the other rule is still being adhered to at that time. So far I have won two more over to trying not to. There is still this one that thinks he is wise in his own eyes and I have not gone shooting with him since.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

 

[TheTexasRAT]

 

[Papalote]

?????

 

[contender]

"the rest are still a bunch of hillbillies"

Uhh,, I'm a WNC hillbilly. But I'm also an educated hillbilly. Many peoples worst nightmare. And owning a range,, unsafe gun handling will get you sent home.

 

[TheTexasRAT]

"the rest are still a bunch of hillbillies"

Uhh,, I'm a WNC hillbilly. But I'm also an educated hillbilly. Many peoples worst nightmare. And owning a range,, unsafe gun handling will get you sent home.

I, as you put it, "an educated hillbilly" myself. Educated enough to know you can not send them home unless you let them in first so they can do stupid stuff in your presence. I'll pass.

 

[Yaworski]

Years ago there was an article in SOF about the Paki arms trade and the author commented on them reloading .22 LR brass. Yep, rimfire reloads.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

People do it. They sell kits to reload rimfire. I don't see the point.

It's been discussed on RFC for years.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Man, talk about thread creep . . .

 

[XUSNORDIE]

Definitely a creep or two here......

 

[Watertender]

Definitely a creep or two here......

Literally or figuratively?

 

[Chief]

Well this is a thread for the ages. There is enough drift here to cover the Sphinx! Clearly there is an irrational fear of lead. Silver bullets? Lone Ranger perhaps? Wow.

 

[Watertender]

Well this is a thread for the ages. There is enough drift here to cover the Sphinx! Clearly there is an irrational fear of lead. Silver bullets? Lone Ranger perhaps? Wow.

Who is afraid of lead?? It takes many forms and not just buwwets!!!! Ask Elmer Fudd...

 

[XUSNORDIE]

Literally or figuratively?

Blatantly.....

Well this is a thread for the ages. There is enough drift here to cover the Sphinx! Clearly there is an irrational fear of lead. Silver bullets? Lone Ranger perhaps? Wow.

Probably worried about werewolves with bad range manners.......

 

[TheTexasRAT]

Definitely a creep or two here......

Takes one to know one.
P.S. - I do not know you!