Why "hot loads" ?

[pulaski]

Question for the masses . Why "hot load" a cartridge ?
I see this all the time "interested in a hot load for a (fill in the cartridge).
Why not buy a bigger rifle or pistol ?
If you want to "hot load" a 45 colt why not buy a 454 Casull .
Just asking because I don't understand this concept .
Never "hot loaded" anything . I just went and bought a larger caliber .
Maybe it's just me but if you understand this philosophy enlighten me .
pulaski

 

[gasbag]

It's a testosterone thing.
If my .357 makes a bigger bang than yours
I get 14 more chest hairs.

 

[sixshot]

I've always felt the same way, no need to stress a gun when there's already something bigger out there if you need to go bigger but some don't see it that way. Guess that's why they make chocolate & vanilla, so we have a choice.

Dick

 

[grobin]

It's mostly a competition thing. Some pistol and rifle competitions score differently based on muzzle energy or have cartridge limitations. If you are a competitive shooter and go through ~500-1,000 rounds a week 9mm loaded hot is much cheaper than 45ACP normal loads.

A few of us are trying to fix a particular perceived problem with a given cartridge. e.g. 9mm is disappointing in a PCC as the standard loads are developed for shorty pistols. Eliminating hot loads for shorties gives a leg up when loading for a 16" barrel instead of a 3.5" barrel. But what you really want isn't a hot load but rather a slower burning powder than is normal.

There is the macho factor-I can pinch a hole in that iron target and your wimp loads cant!!

 

[Rclark]

If you want to "hot load" a 45 colt why not buy a 454 Casull

Well, maybe because my .45 Colt revolvers can do everything I need them to do ... and I don't have to spend more money on another revolver, brass, bullets, and dies ;) . Keep in mind I don't 'hot rod' mine to the max (say 33K), but I do carry loads that are a bit warmer when I head into the woods. Maybe hitting 20K instead of 14K in my Rugers..... Most all of my shooting is in the sub 14K region.

As for 'hot loads' in .44Mag or .357Mag ... Probably because they can (some for above reason I assume as well, others because they are evidently heading to Africa or some such place) and reloading books tend to show only 'magnum' loads.... Ie. Just looked at a Speer manual #10 and under .44Mag and it show 11.6g min (1250fps) to 12.6g Max (1361fps) Unique under a 240g Jacketed Bullet. I always thought that is silly, because you can certainly load down to 800fps (or lower) loads using Unique if desired! But dutifully following the 'manual' ... you get hot loads ... Sure you can go to the .44 Special tables and get some ideas ... But not in the .44 Mag section. I personally load 'down' because I can for a much more enjoyable shooting session. But what I enjoy isn't necessarily what someone else gets a kick out of or needs/wants! No pun intended...

 

[contender]

I don't think it's mainly a competition thing as mentioned above. I shoot USPSA,, and most folks want a load to just make Major,, w/o any extra recoil. However, in steel silhouette, power does help in knocking down steel.

I think it's mostly a macho thing by many of the "non-active shooting bunch." I have a lot of friends who like to shoot. They want "Hot" or "Magnum" loads etc. I know many of them hunt,, and want the biggest, baddest, most powerful ammo they can get for their gun.
When I start explaining about accuracy, and how a gun should be matched to the ammo for accuracy, they all want accuracy,, but they want it hot too. They fail to fully accept the fact that many guns are much more accurate with a medium or even milder load than the hot-rod ones.
I fully agree,, if you want more power,, go bigger.
None of it matters if you can't hit what you are aiming at.

That said,, some guns, and even some calibers often seem to perform better with top end loads. THAT'S where you can accept hot loads,, if the gun prefers them.

 

[Mobuck]

When I was younger, my tractors were pushed to the horsepower limit, my pickups had "power enhancing modifications", I was strong enough to do things guys much bigger struggled with, and my handloads often left ejector marks on the case head.
I don't "need" those things much anymore although I knew an old man who had those tendencies all the way to his grave.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Old low pressure rounds in modern guns can can be safely increased in pressure for more functionality.
Modern cartridges in over-built guns can also be safely increased in pressure for more functionality. Com-pren-de ???

 

[rmc25]

Those who remember the writings of Mel Tappen will recall one of his main themes. Ego aside - "When you find yourself using maximum loads most of the time what you really need is more gun."
pulaski, looks like you have the same philosophy. So do I.
rmc

 

[GunnyGene]

There are legit reasons, but mostly in long range rifles, imho (1000yds and up). A hotter load means faster mv ->flatter trajectory->longer range & higher on target energy for the same bullet weight/design. But it's not for amateurs. Rifling twist, barrel length, and internal ballistics must also be considered. Ideally, you match these and several other factors to obtain the best possible outcome for whatever your goal is.

 

[langenc]

It's a testosterone thing.
If my .357 makes a bigger bang than yours
I get 14 more chest hairs.

Be careful you may get some things you dont want, fingers blown off etc...

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Hear are a couple of questions along the same line. Why do some people load/shoot light bullets? heavy bullets? soft loads? heavy loads? Why do they shoot high power rifles? pistol caliber rifles? What use is a 50 BMG?

btw I wouldn't want a weak load in Bear country. :D

 

[powder smoke]

Nothing wrong with getting the most out of a cartridge. Take the 45 Colt for example,
Out of a good revolver that sucker can really stand out! Why not? ps

 

[RandyP]

Keep upping the charge .1 gr at a time until the gun explodes.... then back off .2 gr.

I could be mistaken - lol

NOTE: Meant as humor - you kids out there.....DON'T up the charge until your gun explodes!

 

[WAYNO]

Nothing wrong with getting the most out of a cartridge. Take the 45 Colt for example,
Out of a good revolver that sucker can really stand out! Why not? ps

.45 Colt is a great example. Modern revolvers and modern components beg for this load to be hotrodded, creating a really dual-purpose gun.

Some other examples are some factory loads that are now routinely downloaded below what the cartridge was originally designed. .357 comes to mind. Why not load them as originally intended and get the benefit of the originally loading?

How 'bout 10mm Auto? Now routinely loaded far below the original design. Now, when we can find loads loaded to the original pressures, we're cautioned, even by Ruger, against using +P loads. These are not +P !

 

[mikld]

When I got my first .44 Magnum and started reloading for it, I had a raging case of "Magnumitis". I quickly worked up my loads to near max and sometimes right at max. I liked the huge muzzle blast, the wrist breaking recoil and mebbe the looks I got from other shooters at the range (?). Most of it was being able to control and get good results from "The most powerful handgun in the world", at that time. I started with 38 Special, and when that became too tame, I went to the 357 Magnum, then "needing" more power (ugh, more power!) I got my first 44 Magnum. I wasn't into hot rods or big shiny trucks and the other factors in my life were "normal" I just liked big guns (I'd ask a Psychiatrist if I really wanted an answer, but I don't). For some, big powerful guns adds cojones to their britches, but I just enjoyed the big guys and didn't brag about them either... :wink:

BTW that was 30 years ago and my loads today are sane...

 

[Cholo]

I don't hot rod any cartridges other than the .32 mag. That one needs to be stepped up! :)

 

[pulaski]

Thank You .
I have always been of the mind , go buy a bigger or smaller , pistol , rifle or shotgun .
Maybe it's me .
Thanks pulaski

 

[375supermag]

Hi...
Most of my handloads are pretty much in the middle of the road power wise.
I do load some hotter rounds for hunting although almost always below book maximum.
I much prefer an accurate mid range load to an inaccurate full power load.

 

[mikld]

Thank You .
I have always been of the mind , go buy a bigger or smaller , pistol , rifle or shotgun .
Maybe it's me .
Thanks pulaski

Nope, not just you. I've done the same, I started with 22 lr, went to 38 Special, then 357, then 44 Special, and then 44 Magnum. In the late '80s there wasn't much more powerful in a production gun than the 44 Magnum so I took advantage of reloading "hot" for it...

 

[Flyover_Country]

Question for the masses . Why "hot load" a cartridge ?
I see this all the time "interested in a hot load for a (fill in the cartridge).
Why not buy a bigger rifle or pistol ?
If you want to "hot load" a 45 colt why not buy a 454 Casull .
Just asking because I don't understand this concept .
Never "hot loaded" anything . I just went and bought a larger caliber .
Maybe it's just me but if you understand this philosophy enlighten me .
pulaski

I think it is because of four things:

1. Many older cartridges chambered for older firearms have a SAAMI pressure limit that is much less than what the modern firearms they are currently being fired from are capable of. An excellent example is the .45-70, which since it is so old and has been chambered in so many different types of firearms, has book-published loadings of 16k PSI (black powder pressure loads), 28k PSI (SAAMI spec "safe for all rifles" loads), 40k PSI (for modern lever-action .45-70s), and 50k PSI (for Ruger and Browning single-shots.) The .45-70 loaded to 40k PSI has significantly different possible applications than the 16k PSI load so loading to a higher pressure lets them use their firearms safely for different uses than they would have otherwise been able to.

2. Somebody has (or thinks they have) too small of a cartridge to do what they want to do, and instead of buying a new firearm chambered in a larger cartridge, they want to "get more" out of their current firearm.

3. Some people just like to push the envelope.

4. There are very specific cases such as IDPSA where somebody has to comply with a certain set of rules and their current firearm is just short of meeting some breakpoint (e.g. major power level). They would rather push their current firearm/cartridge a little hot to cross that breakpoint than get a different firearm or a different chambering.

Personally, I have never loaded rounds hot. I picked chamberings such that full-power SAAMI spec loads were at least powerful enough for what I wanted to do and if anything, load down rather than up. I reload for all of my centerfire firearms. Virtually all of the rounds fired from my shotguns are "reduced" as full-powered 1 3/4-2 ounce 3" magnum 12 gauge rounds have limited usefulness compared to a standard 2 3/4" 1-1 1/8 ounce load, ditto with the 20 gauge and 1 1/4 ounce 3" magnum vs. 7/8-1 ounce 2 3/4" loads. Most all of my .44 Magnum loads are slightly warmer than a .44 Special and not full-bore rounds. Most of my .30-06 rounds are full power or very close to it since I mainly use my '06 for deer hunting and use the other firearms for lower-powered applications such as pest control, but I still have even loaded the '06 down to .30-30 power levels for some of the range practice (although it shoots 10" low at 100 yards compared to full-speed loads.)

 

[Blackhawk Convertable]

Because:

Rugers are built strong enough to handle magnum loads. OK to hot rod. Hence the manuals list "Ruger Only" loads.

Colts and their clones are NOT built to handle magnum loads. NOT OK to hot rod. Do not use "Ruger Only" loads.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Because:

Rugers are built strong enough to handle magnum loads. OK to hot rod. Hence the manuals list "Ruger Only" loads.

Colts and their clones are NOT built to handle magnum loads. NOT OK to hot rod. Do not use "Ruger Only" loads.

Clarification:

SOME Ruger single-actions can handle "Ruger Only" loads and some cannot. The current crop of "mid-frame" guns should stick with the loading manuals for proper loads for the chambering in question . . . no "Ruger Only" stuff.

:mrgreen:

 

[Rick Courtright]

SOME Ruger single-actions can handle "Ruger Only" loads and some cannot.

Hi,

And here's the corker in my book: RUGER will not tell us which ones will! Only third party sources do that, so we can "believe" but do we really "know?" And since Ruger builds the guns, and does know exactly how they're built, I see no reason to disbelieve them when they say their guns are good for SAAMI spec ammo... then advocate nothing more.

So instead of hotrodding a .45 Blackhawk that MAY handle ~30,000 psi loads (and did when Mr. Linebaugh tested 'em, but may or may not today what with line changes over the years in materials, etc.), I bought a Redhawk in .44 Mag that Ruger DESIGNED to handle 35,000 psi, right out of the book. SAAMI's book! According to Hodgdon, I can push a 355 gr bullet out the end of that gun at up to 1235 fps (approx 1210 ft lb muzzle energy), while still being within design specs of the gun AND ammo. Since that will kill pretty much anything in my neighborhood, I'm happy.

To each his own in this situation... ;)

Rick C

 

[Thumbcocker]

cause it kills stuff deader

 

[grobin]

First what do we mean by "not loads"?

A. +P and similar that are within SAAMI pressures but just.
These are useful when you need full power loads and factory loads are wimpy e.g. 10mm 'FBI' loads are really down gunning to 40mm. A guide killed a griz with a 9mm using Buffalo Bore 147 gr at 1100 fps. Article in American hunter.

This is just getting full value for the cartridge.

B. '+P+' loads that exceed SAAMI specs.
There are several reasons for these (many may be met by A. loads).
1. Competition, 9mm loaded hot makes the 'major' category along with 45acp. But the brass costs ¢4/round less than 45acp (starline). As you can't normally recover the brass in competition this adds up.
2. To meet a particular need. Shooting elk at long ranges. (I agree going from 300 Winchester mag to 338 lupua is a better solution if feasible.)
3. Macho, my 105mm will blow a hole in y'r steel target and your's will not! Phsychrity is relatively expensive but not compared to restorative surgery and physical therapy!

"kills stuff deader"-this is the old stopping power falicy. The 9mm that killed the griz would likely go through a human with minimal damage.

 

[volshooter]

If I need more power I use a more powerful cartridge/firearm.
I own from a .22 to a .454 Casual in hand guns. I'll use what I have and not hotrod.
Years of experience have shown me there is nothing the .454 will do that the .44mag will do.
Dinosaurs haven't been around for some time, no need for hand cannons. We have wild hogs and black bear, a .45LC will take them as well, as I've heard a .357 mag.
If you need more power, say grizzly country, buy a more powerful firearm.
I understand wanting to get the most from your cartridge, is it worth damaging your firearm to get hot rod loads when you can buy another more powerful one?
I shoot for best groups. After all is accuracy not our goal? I've taken a few deer with .45ACP and .357.
Ruger firearms are the finest carry pistols in the woods, If I need a .44mag I'll carry it. My go to is a New Vaquero with approved loads. I don't feel under gunned, even facing black bear.

Just my opinion, carry enough firearm to handle your business.

 

[AJGUNNER]

When I got my first .44 Magnum and started reloading for it, I had a raging case of "Magnumitis". I quickly worked up my loads to near max and sometimes right at max. I liked the huge muzzle blast, the wrist breaking recoil and mebbe the looks I got from other shooters at the range (?). Most of it was being able to control and get good results from "The most powerful handgun in the world", at that time. I started with 38 Special, and when that became too tame, I went to the 357 Magnum, then "needing" more power (ugh, more power!) I got my first 44 Magnum. I wasn't into hot rods or big shiny trucks and the other factors in my life were "normal" I just liked big guns (I'd ask a Psychiatrist if I really wanted an answer, but I don't). For some, big powerful guns adds cojones to their britches, but I just enjoyed the big guys and didn't brag about them either... :wink:

BTW that was 30 years ago and my loads today are sane...

Wow---Are you certain that we are not brothers??? This is pretty much my story to a T.

I am just thankful that Elmer Keith did some "hot rodding" back in the day, so that we can all play with the 44 magnums now without wrecking a perfectly good ruger.

 

[Jon406]

I wouldn't want a weak load in Bear country. :D

Exactly

What I carry in my bear woods revolver, doesn't mean I shoot those loads all the time.

 

[Greenjoytj]

Why buy a bigger firearm for just the occasional high power use if you can SAFELY hot load the firearm you already have?

Or

Buy once cry once and get a 460 S&W Magnum and shoot any of the 3 older cartridges that will fit. 45 S&W Schofield, 45 Colt, 45 Casull.

Who hasn’t landed a very big fish by playing it carefully on tackle that was really too light for the weight of fish caught.