Vision Question

[Hvymax]

I have noticed that handguns seem to shoot High/Left for me. Fully rested with minimal input. Most of my pistols have the rear sight off visibly to the right or just shoot left, high. I was shooting one of my unmodified Beretta 96's at 25yds and got 5 shots in one hole 6" high and 4" left. Similar happens with my Armscor 38 with fixed sights. Also people have problems hitting anything with "My Guns". I'm still better than 20/20 past 3' but this is strange. I know my son had issues with regular iron sights until I set him up with apertures. I always start any range session shooting fully rested to eliminate the ME variable before shooting normal drills etc. I always say that shooting offhand does absolutely nothing to establish the accuracy of any firearm.

 

[contender]

It may not be a vision issue.

It's very likely a grip, and follow-through issue.

High left usually means you are either anticipating recoil, or maybe "pushing" the gun as it fires, or lastly, no real follow through.

And for me,, offhand shooting is always "different" than shooting from a rest. And offhand shooting really tells me if I'm having issues with my grip, my technique, or my worst habit,, not a proper follow through.
When I slow down, focus on all the necessary skills, and do as I SHOULD do,, offhand,, my results scare even myself. And if I use a rest,, I only allow part of the frame to sit in the firm, yet flexible (a little) shooting bags, and rest the heels of my hands on another bag. It too, when done properly,, will give results that rival many offhand rifle shooters.

 

[Hvymax]

My rest supports the grip and frame of the pistol. I literally just line up the sights and release the Single Action trigger. It's consistent with various firearms. The Beretta really showed me with the one hole group.

 

[blume357]

The print out on my wall says "Pushing: Anticipating Recoil".
My shooting experience was sometimes to the left .... usually at 9:00 and I finally realized it was how I had my finger placed on the trigger.
I deduced this finally with a red dot... you can't see the slight movement of the iron sights but you can with the dot.

One thing is for sure... if all or most of your handguns are doing this it ain't the gun... it's you.

 

[jimbo1096]

It’s funny that with me I’m usually high right until I settle down after a couple of shots and then it’s dead on target at 6 o’clock hold. This is from a 15 to 25 foot target. When I shoot offhand it really shows me where I’m going to actually be in a situation more like in real life. I’m thinking I’m not going to be able to say hold up guy just let me go get my rest sit down and then say let’s continue. So offhand it’s really where I need to be in my practice.

 

[NC FNS]

I’m going with astigmatism. Mine makes it difficult to tell how centered the front sight is.

 

[NC FNS]

The print out on my wall says "Pushing: Anticipating Recoil".

You reminded me of a mock "teaching" target I saw a while back, where the center said "Great" and each piece of pie surrounding the center said "You suck".

 

[Hvymax]

Yeah like I said fully rested only thing more would be a ransom rest. Astigmatism is a possibility. Most of my guns have groups at 25yds that might cause doubt. The Beretta just cinched it with the one hole group. Astigmatism is a possibility I suppose. A really accurate gun shows everything because it ain't the gun. A gun that does 6" at 25yds can hide all kinds of defects. I already have the laser dialed in now I suppose I could push the sight a bit but I don't want to wreck it for anyone else if I give it to one of my kids and they think my guns are all screwed up.

 

[sceva]

People don't all hold and shoot the same. I often shot with a friend and when adjusted his guns shot center for him but hit low and to one side for me. Mine shot center for me but shot high and to the opposite side for him.

 

[Mike J]

I have never really shot my handguns off a rest. I realized a couple of years ago I was experiencing vision changes. I was trying to shoot a postal match at 50 yards & discovered I could not see the center dot of the target well with the 4x32 scope that has been on that rifle & always performed well in the past. I am sure the scope works as well as it always has.

With handguns I have to always watch my grip. Especially if I haven't shot for a while. If I go out & shoot a group my tendency is to have one shot dead center & all the other shots will be directly below it centered. I tend to milk the grip. When I struggle with this if I spend some time on dry fire it seems to go away until the next time. I try to grip the gun tightly enough to prevent my grip tightening as I pull the trigger. It can be very frustrating.
I remember once Jimbo 357 here had posted a challenge. I was trying to shoot a playing card at 25 yards with my old Dan Wesson revolver. I shot the allowed 5 rounds slow fire single action. When I went to check my target I had one hole dead center of the card. The other 4 were all touching just off the bottom edge of the card. The old Dan Wesson is accurate. The loose nut behind the trigger is the problem. I am pretty sure the dead center shots are always the first shot but after that I tend to flinch/milk the grip if I don't stay on my toes.

 

[Hvymax]

People don't all hold and shoot the same. I often shot with a friend and when adjusted his guns shot center for him but hit low and to one side for me. Mine shot center for me but shot high and to the opposite side for him.

That's what's happening with me. It sounds like Astigmatism is the culprit. What's weird is nothing is blurred except the normal inside 3' thing. The 1 hole group thing with a known accurate gun is what really brought it to my attention. I noticed it with my new fixed sight revolver and thought the gun was off. Now I have to decide wether to wreck my iron sights guns for anyone else or just adapt when shooting those guns. All of my carry guns have optics now. I'm not so far off that I wouldn't hit the bad guy at 25yds with any of them. My center mass shots would be lower right clavicle at 25yds. This getting old thing is crazy my sight is literally bending!!! I line up a perfect sight picture fully supported resting and with a gun that is known to be dead nuts accurate for me (years ago) and others along with every other iron sights guns I shoot are doing the same!!!

 

[beentheredone]

Sounds like It's-not-me Syndrome. If that's the case, it may be incurable, but there is hope for the guy who pays strict attention to where is front sight goes in the instant the trigger is pulled...

 

[Hvymax]

When shooting from my rest only a ransom rest would be steadier. I never reference any non rested shooting for accuracy purposes. I'll usually start any shooting drills on the bench to verify accuracy before running drills so I know any deficiencies are mine. The guns I use regularly get "adjusted" as needed but I never really noticed anything but my arms getting shorter starting in my 50's.
What brought this to my attention was my new revolver with fixed sights. Groups were what I expected just not where I expected them. Then I decided to work on one of my old Berettas that I knew was stupid accurate 10-12 years ago and got a 1 hole group in the same place. Which left me with the question WTF??? I had been noticing that people had issues hitting anything with any of my guns but thought it was a them thing. Evidently Astigmatisms can do all kinds of weird crap. If you've seen anything where I post a group etc it's because I still surprise myself sometimes because my regularly used firearms are so "Tuned" to myself. Grips, Sights, modifications as needed etc. I adapt them to where they come up and everything is right there aligned and instinctive. I even glued wedges to my Poly80 40/357 Sig creation to make it fit. I guess now I know why I have been loving the new optics as much as I do.
So this isn't a "It's not me" syndrome it's a It's me I just don't know what it is. I remember going skeet shooting the first time after shattering my arms and my wrists being fused and I couldn't hit anything and couldn't determine what I was doing. And shouting at one of my instructor friends to tell me where I'm shooting so I can correct it. I wound up having to shim my stocks that had worked fine for decades. I suppose the sights on my old edc P11 should be a clue. The rear sight is all the way to the right and it has the tallest front sight available. I always figured it was the gun.