Vaquero- Does Yours shoot POA?

[Wasp]

I was wondering if most people find their Vaqueros shoot POA? If so, at what distance?
How accurate would you guess it is?
What caliber?
I know it's not refined adjustable sights, just wanting to hear some thoughts and opinions based on experiences.


...if you have pics of targets and notes, those are welcome as well.

I'm looking at a .357

 

[seasterl]

Out of over a dozen Ruger New Model single-action or double-action (RedHawk) revolvers ranging in age and fixed or adjustable sights, almost all of them (with only two or three exceptions) have over- or under-clocked barrels. I got to where I can tell just by looking over the gun, then confirming shooting from a solid rest. The adjustable sight models can be fixed by adjusting windage but all my Vaqueros would all shoot 2-4” left of point of aim at fifteen to twenty yards. To correct, I find loads (bullet weight and velocity) to matches elevation since I didn’t want to fully commit to filing down my front sights. To correct windage I bent the front sight since I don’t have a cylinder frame vice and barrel vice, and I don’t have a local gunsmith to assist. I’m happy to get the Vaqueros to fire to point of aim at this short distance by bending the sight although most attest to breaking their sights. It is possible to achieve very good accuracy with a Vaquero, but I think two things are necessary: (1) try to settle on your favorite load (e.g., a fast-moving 158gr jacketed or lead bullet) that’s precise (smallest groups) or does what you want (target or hunting), and (2) send it to a competent gunsmith to properly clock the barrel or replace the front fixed sight blade with a windage-adjustable model… if you do that, get a couple different height blades fitted to regulate it for different bullet weights,… and to further improve accuracy, get it fitted oversized base pin, and action job, and maybe darken in the rear-facing recess of the rear sight groove for improved sight alignment. Add some custom grips to better fit your hand to the gun and improve trigger finger positioning and then you’ll end with with an accurate, fixed-sight beauty of a gun you’ll likely never sell. It’ll be your favorite forever. I own (or had) up to nine Vaqueros and these are the things I’ve learned about them. IMO, they’re not worth keeping if they don’t shoot to point of aim, but they’re awesome after you regulate the sights.

Edited for typos

 

[Rclark]

None of mine shot to POA for the load I wanted to shoot. I answered this in the 'other' forum. All had to be adjusted (barrel turned, front sight filed). Now they do for the intended load. None of mine are .357.

 

[Air-cooled]

I have one Vaquero, I consider it: a) an art form and b) a point and shoot weapon. If I wanted to use sights I'd get a Blackhawk.

 

[dobegrant.45]

I have two Vaquero’s both original models. The first is a 7 1/2” .44 magnum and it shoots to point of aim at 50 yards with a 240 gr bullet over 8.5 hrs of Unique, I can ring a 6” steel plate consistently. The other is a 5 1/2” .45 colt , I usually shoot a 255gr bullet over 8 hrs of Unique and it is point of aim at 25 yards.

 

[bowzette]

One did shoot POA/POI and one did not. The one that didn't I sent to Ruger and asked for regulation with 158 gr at 15 yards. In a week I had it back with a target showing POI dead-on. Got to love Ruger CS.

 

[eric conrad]

One did shoot POA/POI and one did not. The one that didn't I sent to Ruger and asked for regulation with 158 gr at 15 yards. In a week I had it back with a target showing POI dead-on. Got to love Ruger CS.

 

[eric conrad]

I agree with Rclark. The definition of Vaquero is Shoots low and left. If you need help, get a hold of 2 Dogs or Bobby Tyler.

 

[buckeyeshooter]

I have 4 vaqueros, 44 mag with made up 44-40 extra cylinders. Mine shoot point of aim, but I put in a lot of work finding correct loads that worked in all 4 guns.

 

[noahmercy]

Six Vaqueros have passed through my hands over the years, all original large-frame models. (2) 45 Colt 5 1/2" SS Bisleys. (2) 45 Colt 3 1/2" CC Sheriff Model Birdsheads, (2) 357 Magnum SS (one 4 5/8" Bisley, one 5 1/2 standard). Also a pair of 32 H&R Magnum "Vaqueritos" (Super Single Six), one blued , one SS. These Vaqueros & Single Sixes were used in Cowboy Action Shooting matches, and occasionally for trail carry. Combined round count on all eight was well over 50,000.

I cast my own bullets and handload, and benched all these for testing. The worst groups with "cowboy" ammunition was 2 1/2 inches at 25 yards. The best was around 1 1/2" at the same distance. One particular load with Hornady XTPs for the SS 32 (slightly more accurate than the blued one) would go right at an inch if I held my tongue just right. Ringing a two foot long chunk of an oxygen tank at 125 yards was easy with any of the guns Neither the 45s or 357s ever had a factory load down barrel, so I can't speak to how well they may have performed with mass-produced ammunition.

As to POI, they all did very well with ammo featuring bullets close to the "standard" weights for those calibers: 250/255 in 45 Colt, 158 grain 38/357, and 100 grain 32 H&R. None of them ever shot dramatically far off as long as bullet weight wasn't dramatically different, although I did have to file the front sight down on one of the 5 1/2" Bisley 45s since it hit well below the sights when new. A common complaint with many single action revolvers is that they shoot "low and left". My guess is that over 99% of them don't...it's almost always someone new to SAs and they require a slightly different grip and squeeze than most other style handguns, with the result that the barrel is often pulled down and to the left (for right-handers) during firing. Benching the gun usually "miraculously" cures the issue.

 

[Black_Talon]

they require a slightly different grip and squeeze than most other style handguns,

What sort of grip and squeeze do they need not to shoot low left?

 

[seasterl]

My FA and S&W very rarely needed any windage adjustment and if they did, it was so slight I could hardly notice. On my Ruger revolvers (fixed and adjustable sights) I can look at it and see the barrel improperly clocked, and from a steady sandbag rest at 15yds, the same shoot left and most of them need to have the rear sight blade adjusted to the right. (I’ve been shooting handguns for thirty-two years and also shot revolvers competitively, so not a new-comer.). So yeah, Ruger wheelguns can have some drawbacks, but I think most of us in this forum (myself included) think these flaws are worth overcoming. I think the Vaqueros, in particular, are worth the effort to get them to shoot straight and accurately. They have a lot of character, IMO!

Edited for typos

 

[KRuger]

Black Talon asked,"What sort of grip and squeeze do they need not to shoot low left?"
From my experience only; I've come to expect "L&L" patterns when 1) I'm shooting a plow handle grip, 2) I'm gripping it too tightly, and 3) Either I have too much grip on the right side of the gun or too much trigger finger in the guard.
While not discounting the overclocked or underclocked barrel concepts; I think we often blame our guns for our own errors.
I regard my square trigger guard on my SBH as my tutor when it raps my knuckle while shooting low power loads.
Just my opinion.
KRuger

 

[needsmostuff]

What sort of grip and squeeze do they need not to shoot low left?

Not a textbook, do it this way kind of thing. The ONLY way to "get there " by shooting enough for total comfort and familiarization with that particular gun.
Get some comfortable to shoot ammo then shoot it a lot. Try different stuff. How you grip it how you pull the trigger and just as important, stand up and get off the bench bags every now and then. Benching is fine for testing ammo and such, but it is not how to shoot a handgun. They just plain shoot different when rested on a bench.
Most of my better single action shooting with a plow handle is done with a tighter grip with the bottom 2 fingers. Middle and trigger finger doing little
gripping. Trigger pull is straight back with just the distal pad on the trigger. Do some dry firing. Study the sight picture as the hammer drops seeing if it moves around. Try different grips and pulls.
Sometimes I use one hand, sometimes two. But if two it's only for gentle cupping support ,,,,,,,, no gripping.
The second I shove my trigger finger in to the second joint or grab the grip like a fist, groups go out the window. No such thing as cranking out the shots, execution of EVERY shot must be concentrated on.


Not saying it is the case. But taking a big ole single action to the range once or twice a year with a box of brutal , Ruger only beast loads will never get it there. Getting comfortable with it will.

 

[LPRoad]

I own 4 Vaqueros. All large frame original type complete with the heinous warning on the side of the barrel. 2 are 5.5” Bisley Vaqueros in 45 Colt that I shoot in CAS. the third is a 3.5” 45 Colt and the final one is a 4 5/8“ .357.

They all shoot to point of aim with my reloads. I rarely shoot the 45s beyond 15 yards, and I have modified the front sights on the Bisleys to shoot POA with the light 45 Cowboy Special rounds.

The 357, despite the relatively short barrel is one of my more accurate 6 guns and I often use it in SASS long range revolver side matches for that reason.