Trigger return spring

[ole95]

Along time back (maybe 20 years ago) I bought a couple of trigger return springs I think the the name maybe had trapper in it I just can't remember
really worked good I need a couple more anybody heard of them
they were for NM blackhawks pretty sure they worked for the single six
thanks

 

[flatgate]

Brownell's 969-000-163AA

From a "few years old" Catalog........

flatgate

 

[DeletedMember275]

Brownell's 969-000-163AA

From a "few years old" Catalog........

flatgate

Still works, though (although they're Wolff springs)!

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=0/k=969000163/t=S/ksubmit=y/Products/All/search=969000163

 

[ole95]

That not the one I was after BUT if yall recommend it that good enough for me
Thanks from the bottom of my pea pickin heart
great site

 

[flatgate]

Shucks, I've NEVER used a "aftermarket" New Model trigger spring.

Tweek both legs of the Factory spring.

Springs DO NOT make a trigger job. They are the LAST item to be added.

JMHO,

flatgate

 

[tek4260]

Is this the one?

 

[ole95]

that sho nuff looks just about like it . Was I right about Trapper :lol:

 

[Old_School]

Along time back (maybe 20 years ago) I bought a couple of trigger return springs I think the the name maybe had trapper in it I just can't remember
really worked good I need a couple more anybody heard of them
they were for NM blackhawks pretty sure they worked for the single six
thanks

I used Trapper return springs in a couple of NM Single Sixes, but that's been 30 years ago. I doubt they're still in business. Wolff pretty much owns the market now.

 

[tek4260]

I believe it was Trapper. My dealer had a few sets he bought out of an old gun shop and I got them plus a few here and there on grip frames and on this forum.

 

[Grizzly]

Trapper Gun Inc.
18717 E. Fouteen Mile
Fraser, Mich. 48026
313-792-0133

Funny, I just dug out some old ruger boxes and had an old Trapper spring kit package in one.

 

[Grizzly]

They also refer to the spring kit as "Bullseye" which I've seen them referred to in old magazine tuning articles. The package says: another tune up kit from: Bullseye shooting aids

 

[stantheman86]

I used a NOS Bullseye kit in a Speed Six, works great, pops CCI caps.

I know this is a Blackhawk thread, but the Bullseye kits are good.

I have seen silver and black colored springs, I used the silver.......I assume the black is lighter. The silver Bullseye springs don't feel that much "lighter" but I can defintely feel the lack of staging.

 

[Thel]

No experience with them in Blackhawk but have used them in Security Sixes, a Python and a few other guns. They are or were in Gratiot. Last time I inquired on Pistolsmith.com someone stated they were out of business. As I recall either MidSouth or Natchez Shooters Supply sold them on the 'net.

 

[M'BOGO]

Trapper Gun Inc.
18717 E. Fouteen Mile
Fraser, Mich. 48026
313-792-0133

Funny, I just dug out some old ruger boxes and had an old Trapper spring kit package in one.

Gotta say, the 313 area code goes back to the '80's, when it covered most of the east side of the state. Then there were several more splits over the years. Now 313 is Detroit or Wayne County?

As for Thel's comment about Gratiot, leads me to believe I'd been in there about 10 or 11 years ago, and they closed down about five or six years ago. There was a Trapper Guns in a older storefront (from the looks of the building, dating from the days before the stripmalls, maybe the turn of the twentieth century), and didn't make a to do about being a smith. Not much inventory, and really not friendly. There was a beautiful Savage 99 in .303 Savage, with color case, nice wood, obviously refinished. Tried to talk to the gent behind the counter, and didn't seem interested in talking to me. Not saying I have the gift of gab, or that he was rude.

John Taffin in mentioning Trapper Gun, has made me wonder, and now believe there was more going on there.

 

[Too Many]

That same design spring is still being sold by the Cowboys and Indian Store which caters to CAS. Have no idea who makes them though.

 

[David Bradshaw]

Rattles a memory. Larry Kelly, who introduced Electron Discharge Machining to recoil management in firearms, and founded Mag-na-Port, had a beef with the Trapper outfit up in Michigan. Business rivalry caper, I think.

The aftermarket trigger spring for Ruger single action followed on the New Model transfer bar lockwork, which had a noticeably stiffer letoff than the Peacemaker-style single actions.

In writing rules to define a Production category repeater or single shot in IHMSA silhouette, we mandated factory parts only, except for aftermarket grips made to a standard pattern. This kept aftermarket trigger springs out of guns shot in PRODUCTION and REVOLVER category competition.

You could bend or cut a Ruger trigger spring to lighten letoff, and clean sear engagement, but that was it. It may be worth remembering that all the tournaments won, championships won, and records set were done with factory trigger springs. This applies to Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Dan Wesson, Freedom Arms, United Sporting Arms, Colt Python, Manurhin MR 73, Virginian Silhouette Dragoon, and any other wheelguns I may have left out.

To this day I have no need of an aftermarket trigger spring in a Ruger (or S&W), etc.

That said, for the shooter unfamiliar with trigger work, a drop-in light spring offers a predictable alternative to unskilled tinkering.

ENGAGEMENT
Remember this at all hazards: To test for correct engagement, accumulate light pressure on trigger until the hammer falls. The trigger must SWEEP REARWARD at hammer fall.

If the trigger KICKS FORWARD at hammer fall, you have FUGITIVE ENGAGEMENT. The sear angles are wrong and must be fixed. Do Not test engagement by pushing on a cocked hammer! (That is an arbitrary pressure certain to ruin a proper trigger if enough pressure is applied!)
David Bradshaw

 

[Cholo]

If the trigger kicks forward----any among----you have FUGITIVE ENGAGEMENT. The sear angles are wrong and must be fixed.
David Bradshaw

Back about '78 a friend put a Bullseye spring kit in his Colt Trooper MK IV .357. It worked fine with the factory springs, not so with the Bullseye springs. When the hammer fell the trigger would reset forward rather violently. He was going to send it to an authorized Colt repair facility in Nashville. I told him to simply put the old springs back in. I don't know what he finally decided to do and I never knew what caused it. Can you explain that in more detail? Thanks...

 

[David Bradshaw]

Cholo.... Thanks for mention of the double action revolver trigger. The same "no-kick-forward" rule covers SA and DA trigger/hammer engagement: when fired single action, the trigger should sweep rearward at hammer fall.
With a DA revolver, fugitive sear engagement causes the trigger to kick forward. It does not take much "kick" to cause a misfire as the trigger catches the falling hammer. With the transfer bar system, trigger kick drops the transfer bar, preventing the hammer delivering its blow to the primer.

Many misfires occur with transfer bar revolvers in the presence of a fugitive trigger job. The Ruger sear angles are designed to REGAIN. A Smith & Wesson which has had the Baboon Stone put to case hardened hammer and trigger will not retain proper engagement for long.

The only Colt double actions with which I've had good experiences are the Python and various .44 Specials and .45 ACP's of an earlier generation. I have not had positive results with the MK III Trooper and other attempts to build a revolver more price competitive with Ruger and S&W. They seem to have guts designed by Rube Goldberg. Has the MK IV separate hammer and trigger springs?

Colt DA's tend to be more timing sensitive than S&W and Ruger.

When you think about, a successful DA design must overcome strong trigger rebound thrust to break CLEAN single action, at lighter than rebound pressure. There is a geometry to this, and no one has gotten it better than Smith & Wesson. Smith & Wesson, along with old school Colt, followed by Ruger and the Dan Wesson, certainly accomplished proper functioning. (Although the nickel-plated, sintered-metal hammer and trigger of Dan Wesson do not long endure DA fire.) Without knowing about or wanting to work with newer Colt attempts at a DA revolver, I have a feeling that the internal setup is too sensitive for my style of living.

(Let me digress a moment more: In addition to what I consider weak design, the nouveau Colt DA's I've fired were disgracefully inaccurate. One MK III had a forcing cone patterned after a grain funnel. I mean no offense to anyone who owns one of these revolvers. It is just that I see these guns as a smear of Sam Colt's name, brought on in desperate times by clowns stuffing money into deep pockets sewn inside pinstripe suits, laughing all the way to the bank. I never asked William Ruger his take on these revolvers; had I, it might have been an insult to his intelligence.)

David Bradshaw

 

[SAJohn]

David, Thank you for the great information. Just to add a little bit more about single action trigger springs: I did some work on a new model .45 Blackhawk. From the factory the pull was 3 lbs 4 oz with the usual creep and grit. After slicking up the insides and reshaping the trigger spring, the trigger pull was reduced to a smooth 2 lbs 4 oz. I then completely removed the trigger spring. The pull dropped to 1 lb 6 oz.

John

 

[David Bradshaw]

SAJohn.... thank you. Getting off track here: When I perform a trigger job on the New Model, it is either of two ways:

1) Dead clean break---- a) light, competition, about 1 lb; b) for field, about 2-1/2 to 3 lb.

2) Glide----very smooth "creep." Allows for lighter trigger with very strong engagement. Takes fast draw, which a light, dead clean trigger will not.

Takes more discipline to squeeze a "glide" trigger. I get along with both setups. My final test insures that the trigger sweeps rearward at hammer fall.

Note: Remember, the NM trigger controls the transfer bar. Trigger must reset upon release to drop transfer bar below firing pin.
David Bradshaw

 

[tek4260]

The "trigger reset" can be fixed by doing away with the "pinch" of the transfer bar by the hammer. I had a few that wouldn't reset after installing the Bullseye spring, but a bit of work on the second step of the hammer cured it.

FWIW, all my Ruger single actions have lighter trigger springs and 26# hammer springs. I also remove about 1/2 of the sear engagement.

 

[Cholo]

David, thanks for the detailed answer! I actually had to dig my Colt Trooper out of the safe as it's the same model that 2 of my friends had back then. It's a Trooper MK III, not MK IV

 

[M'BOGO]

Rattles a memory. Larry Kelly, who introduced Electron Discharge Machining to recoil management in firearms, and founded Mag-na-Port, had a beef with the Trapper outfit up in Michigan. Business rivalry caper, I think.

David Bradshaw

Mag-Na-Ports current location, which is off of I-94, is about five miles from the last location of Trapper Gun on Gratiot (pronounced Grash-it, silly French ) which is M-3, between 12 and 13 Mile roads.