Time bomb?

[Joe S.]

I am a by the book reloader. Check and double check.

That said, i loaded up some 357 magnum ammo the other night with 158 grain jhp and 8 grains of Unique.

Was talking reloading with a buddy and he said that sounded over max.

Im away from my books right now but it seems i got that load from my Lyman manual and its not like me to even start at listed max. Seems like listed max in whatever book(s) i referenced was 8.4?

Anyone use that powder/ bullet combo? What charge are you using?

Guns are Marlin 1894 and 4" S&W 586.
TIA

 

[Cholo]

I load 7 grs. with the same bullet. If I want more, I go with 296 or 2400. With that said:

www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=30

 

[Jim Puke]

He is correct

As cholo said, 7 is good to go.

Although, there have been manuals list 8grs as max...but it is widely considered to be too hot.

Lyman 44 shows 8grs as max load.
http://www.castpics.net/project2/CastDatalist.php?t=CastData&z_Cartridge=LIKE&x_Cartridge=357+magnum&v_Cartridge=AND&w_Cartridge=LIKE&y_Cartridge=&z_BulletWt=%3D&x_BulletWt=158&z_Bullet=LIKE&x_Bullet=&v_Bullet=AND&w_Bullet=%3D&y_Bullet=&z_Powder=LIKE&x_Powder=unique&v_Powder=AND&w_Powder=%3D&y_Powder=&Submit=Search+%28*%29

 

[Jimbo357mag]

The Alliant website has 7.7gr of Unique with a Speer GDHP for 1040fps out of a 10" barrel. I would say there is a little room there. Other faster powders like W231/HP-38 can get a 158gr XTP or hard cast bullet up to 1200 fps without going over the max pressure.

If that has been working for you without any problems and you like that load I don't see a reason to change.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=158&shellid=28&bulletid=38

 

[Joe S.]

Well i havent shot one yet. Probably load a few at 7 and 7.5 and see how they feel first. If ok, then run a few at 8....

 

[Tellico]

From myAmmoGuide.com YMMV

Bullet Wt. 158 jhp
(gr)

Powder Unique
Type

Charge 8.3
(gr)

Muzzle 1185
Vel. (fps)

K.E. 492
(ft-lbs)

Pressure 38300 cup


Barrel 4.0
Length (in)

Overall 1.590
Length (in)

 

[anachronism]

As far as I'm concerned, you're fine. I would shoot them in almost anything larger than a S&W J or K frame. For background, .357 is my favorite caliber, I've loaded it stupidly hot, and wimpy low. I've killed deer with it, squirrels, and tin cans. I've shot silhouette with it, and won. I won my state Field Pistol iron sight championship with a 357 Contender. Revolvers, rifles, Contenders, and derringers. If I could only have one caliber? .357 magnum. I'm perfectly comfortable with that load in a 586 or Marlin. Remember, the .357 has been neutered perhaps twice because too many manufacturers introduced inadequate guns for the caliber, making us guys who shoot L frames and GPs wondering what the hells going on. It is solely your decision, but I have a number of manuals that show even higher loads for Unique. I also seem to remember that Unique was reformulated some years back to make it "cleaner" burning. I think they quietly lowered the recommended charge weight shortly after that point too.

 

[Joe S.]

Thanks yall

 

[Cholo]

I just checked my Lyman 3rd Edition, and they list a Hornady 158 JHP with a starting load of 6.4 and max. load of 8.3 grs. of Unique.

There's a reason to start 10%, or more, below max. and work your way up. 35 +- years ago the pet .357 load used to be 15 grs. of 2400 with a 158ish gr. SWC. I loaded 14. All I can say is... :shock: 13.5 was fine in that M28 with only .5 gr difference! I'm no ballistics expert, but it seems you can reach the top pretty quickly.

Work up like you plan to do. Carefully inspect the primers (not always a good indicator of over pressure) and note the difference in appearance. Like some politician once said: I've never watched porn , but I'd know it if I saw it :wink:

 

[6gun]

My Speer # 11 manual has 8.2 as max., newest Speer manual has 7.7 max. for 158 gr.JHP using Unique.

I bought these 2 manuals 25 years appart your 8.0 load my be perfectly safe I'm not going to say it is or isn't, one thing to remember is some powders have changed over the years so to be on the safe side you should always use data from the newest manuals available, loading by the book means never using a obolete book.

 

[WESHOOT2]

The bullet chosen matters.

 

[mikld]

Well i havent shot one yet. Probably load a few at 7 and 7.5 and see how they feel first. If ok, then run a few at 8....

Jes wondering; do you have a need for maximum loads? I don't think I have ever started out a load with max. or near max. charges. When my .357 Magnum is too "small" or not powerful enough, I go to my .44 Magnums...

 

[Joe S.]

Weshoot, it is winchester jhp but i also got some Hornady xtp's

Mikid, the way i usually do it is somewhere around halfway between min and max charges listed if both are listed. Since i set it to 8, i can only guess it was because min listed was around 7.6 or 7.7 with max at 8.3 or 8.4.

I dont have a "need" per say, but i just like to play with different loads and i havent settled on one for the 586 yet.

 

[6gun]

My Lyman # 49 manual lists 357 mag. 158gr. JHP using Unique starting load at 6.4grs.--- max. load 8.3grs so according to them your not over max. using 8.0 grs. but are closing in on max, real bad idea to do 8.4grs.

 

[6gun]

I just checked Alliants web sight for Unique powder they list !58gr. Speer GDHP (Gold Dot hollow point) 7.7grs. Unique, they are not listing a starting or max. just that load only, that would make a good safe load, thats what I would go with if I were loading Unique.

 

[Joe S.]

I looked again at my manuals. The Lyman manual is what i have, so not sure why i did 8 instead of 7.5. Just gonna set those aside til i load some lighter ones and work up.

 

[6gun]

I always check the bullet manufacturers manual and the powders manufacturers web site then compare the data of both as a rule before selecting my chosen powder charge, has always worked for me and given me good safe loads.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Don't have the books close, but do have my spreadsheet w/ "most all the stuff I've ever tried" listed. Like Joe, I try to go "by the book" as much as possible, and w/ most loads, don't venture much above starting levels these days. W/o the book to look at, I'm assuming whatever I have on the sheet is starting load level.

That being said, I found a recipe I'd once used w/ 7.8 gr Unique and a Remington JSP, w/ no negative comments in the notes column... I'm pretty sure that probably came from an OLD Alliant booklet, before the new, cleaner Unique came out (I'm still finishing some from the '70s!)

Since the current Alliant website load for a 158 GDHP shows 7.7 gr, and for a 158 LSWC says 6.0 (my spreadsheet shows I've used 6.1 in the past), it looks like they may have down tuned just a touch w/ the "new" formulation...

Rick C

 

[Joe S.]

Thanks Rick!

 

[WESHOOT2]

The Winchester bullet will handle that charge of Unique.

 

[tek4260]

Joe, they may not be as accurate as some other charge weight, but they are in no way unsafe. Shoot them first, then work down if you find their accuracy lacking.

 

[Joe S.]

Thanks yall

 

[Paul B]

I think that the current "cleaner" version of Alliant's Unique is slightly faster burning than the original version when made by Hercules. My thoughts run tht way as well with Aliant's #2400 vs the Hercules version. The difference isn't much but based on results from my firearms I have to consider them so.
I still have a box of Winchester .357 Magnum ammo made in the late 1950's to early 1960's and when shooting some in a 6" S&W M28, a solid heavy "N" frame handgun, recoil was definitely snappy compared to current issue from the same company. I broke a couple down and the powder looked very suspiciously like #2400. The charge weighed 15.5 grains. Back in 1959 I had a 4" S&W M28 and I remember loading 15.0 to 15.5 gr. of #2400 with my home cast 158 gr. gas checked SWC bullets. (Lyman #358156) BTW I still have that mold. 8) ) Manuals back then showed 15.5 gr. to be the max load. Back then when I could see better, I shot many groups from that 4" at max loading into groups you could cover with a two bit piece. (A quarter for the young who may never have heard the term. :lol: ) I do know that when I replaced that 4" Smith many long years later, Alliant had taken over the manufacture of Unique as well as the other Hercules owders and max loads had dropped to 14.0 to 14.5 gr. of #2400 for use in the .357 mag. and I'm thinking why? I loaded some up with my original load data and WOW,recoil was much stouter that I'd remembered and accuracy went all to hell That's when I noticed it was being made by Alliant. I now stick to that 14.0 gr. max load these days. I really never did much with Unique in the .357 other than for some mid range small game and target shooting. I have used a lot of it in stiff loads for a 38/44 S&W Outdoorsman though Makes the .38 Spl. into a decently potent package.
Paul B.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I think that the current "cleaner" version of Alliant's Unique is slightly faster burning than the original version when made by Hercules. My thoughts run tht way as well with Aliant's #2400 vs the Hercules version. The difference isn't much but based on results from my firearms I have to consider them so.

Hi,

A buddy likes 2400. He had access to both "old" and "new" at one time, and noticed exactly the same thing Paul suspects. He wrote to Alliant asking, and they wrote back the powder had NOT been changed, Still, he did have to shave a few tenths of a grain from both .44 Mag and .357 Mag loads.

So, it appears "Start low, work up" is STILL as good a watchword as ever! Many experienced loaders use that adage w/ ANY component change, and it should probably be mentioned even a new lot of "the same ol'" powder CAN be as much a component change as any other.

Rick C

 

[GasGuzzler]

Hi,

There's proof 2400 works the same no matter. I use Herc data for Alliant 2400 then adjust it up or down to make it work for me. I don't always check one place or another but many places. The internet is NOT a bad place to get information unless you're a lemming.