Ruger should build this...............

[gtxmonte]

Instead of all the "Ruger should build this threads".............why don't we see Ruger should be Ruger threads. That means build rugged, quality, affordable firearms that don't have to be sent back 3 or 4 times to get something usable. Instead of jumping in every market and seeming to bounce around with no direction, just do what you do. While Ruger has never been known to be the most accurate, have the best fit and finish, or really be the best in any category........you could pretty much always count on them to be rugged, reliable and work. Not so much these days

 

[Jimbo357mag]

........you could pretty much always count on them to be rugged, reliable and work. Not so much these days

I think Ruger has changed over the last several years. Seems they are trying to make and sell more guns and make more profit for shareholders. I believe it was most noticeable after they dropped the 'S' in their Ruger logo.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Bill wanted to make money, but he also insisted on his products being of good quality and value . . . after all, his name was on everything.

Today, not so much, more's the pity.

:roll: :roll:

 

[BlkHawk73]

Until the people producing them, the workers start having the same desire and pride that there was years back, nothing will change. It used to be that an employee had pride in the end result. Now it's just "hey, I make guns" as if it's some sort of bragging status thing. They're there for a paycheck and little else. Like that across the board.

Add in that people want Cadillacs for the price of a Kia and well... :roll:

 

[HAWKEYE#28]

Just perhaps..............why some only pursue Old Models '72 and earlier 8) :wink:

 

[contender]

According to the folks at Ruger that I spoke with directly, ,,, their QC is actually gotten better over the last several years. So,, if you have concerns,,, buy some stock,, then attend the annual stockholder meeting,, and voice your concerns. There,, you can hear the numbers for yourself,,, and you can question them or challenge them to prove their numbers.

 

[BlkHawk73]

What contender said! Let's not forget... People are FAR more likely to gripe and complain about a product than to go out and praise a product. Think...you buy something you're not happy with, you let it be known but do you make it known every time you buy a product you're happy with? Nope! So...factor the couple million units shipped and the number of "bad" ones and you'll see it's really not bad at all compared to the hundreds of thousands of years past.

 

[rugerguy]

we have, and goingback did buy stocks just to do this...BUT bottom line it is still people building, making things ,for other people to use and I have noticed from having to "service & repair" all these years as well as spending time at 4 of the major makers, the care, input, handling, testing of any and ALL prototype, BEFORE actually shipping them out ,is NOT there folks USED to look at as they handle, build ,assemble their particular job in the sequence of thoings, finally going to test firing , feed fire and function they ALL at some time looked at each and every gun, and if ANYTHING seemed or actually was "wrong" it went back into the system till it was done right...no time for that these days its numbers out the door, let the buyer do the test,feed and fire and if needed ,return under warranty...always time enough to redo it , than to take the time and do it RIGHT in the first place...nature of the beast of manufacturing....QC is SUPPOSED to pick up on any and all of this as well as the final packaging,look it over , wipe it down, wrap it up and ship it. BEEN there , DONE that, and have seen, watched some folks just do NOT do their job,in some cases they are protected by a union, so could care less, they have other things on their minds, there is always the Monday,Wed and Friday built stuff.........humans being human...........the numbers ,stock values, are based on just that NUMBERS and HOW many, and yes, for the most part I agree with Splitz and my wife, they care,like and go after the "old model" stuff. and I also enjoy, like to work and tinker on them, NOT the "new stuff" and the sharp cutting edges of stainless steel or "black plastic " ( polymers)..................just our .02 cents

 

[gtxmonte]

According to the folks at Ruger that I spoke with directly, ,,, their QC is actually gotten better over the last several years. So,, if you have concerns,,, buy some stock,, then attend the annual stockholder meeting,, and voice your concerns. There,, you can hear the numbers for yourself,,, and you can question them or challenge them to prove their numbers.

I don't really care what they say their overall numbers are. New Rugers have been a part of my family since the 70s. In my own experience, the ones that don't make the cut has risen dramatically since then. To the point that I will be hard pressed to buy another new Ruger again

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

I suppose there's a certain amount of individual perspective involved in what a "good" product is, what a "not exactly good but acceptable" one is, and an "unacceptable" one. A lot of people seem to think that since Ruger will eventually fix their otherwise unacceptable gun, that means good customer service, and they praise the fact that "It took two or three trips back to the factory, but now it works just fine" when what they really should be saying is "I spent enough money on this item it should have worked exactly as designed right out of the box." If anyone here is in that camp, I feel sorry for you. For at least two reasons, the first being you didn't get what you paid for out front, and the second being that as long as you don't raise holy he(ck) about that fact, the company will continue as it's been doing. No penalty, no change.

"But guns aren't like a lot of other products" some will be be quick to tell us. No, they're not. The purchase of them is highly regulated, so you can't take one home and just bring it back because it doesn't work right and exchange it for one that does--no, it's yours, and you have to be content with letting the people who couldn't build it right the first time try again and again. Now, if that's not discomforting enough, there are plenty of costs associated with getting a new one, even if the factory decides the one you sent back is such a lemon it deserves to be replaced. Again, the consumer is being punished for the misdeeds of not himself, but the manufacturer of the product he's bought.

Now I don't know what kind of an alternative universe of marketing allows that kind of behavior by the manufacturers, but the mainstream certainly doesn't seem to. Ruger has no warranty, written at least, and by that fact, there's no credence in an oral one. All they say is they'll try to make you happy if you get a bad one. What's that mean? They're under no obligation to make things right, so one of these days the bean counters will figure out what it's costing them for the crack customer service team, and a vote will be taken to eliminate that branch. Now you've bought the equivalent of a used car: sold "as is, where is" and that's that. Any repairs will be on the customer. Will that happen? Who knows, but if gun sales start to decline because of a lowered political-economic push, the CEO's gonna be hard pressed to keep those stockholders happy, especially the ones who bought their stock at four times what I sold mine for when I thought it was already a little higher than it should be. Ruger's done a number of things I'd think are desperation moves over the last few years, so nothing they might do next would surprise me a lot.

There's an old adage to the effect that it takes a lifetime to build a reputation, only minutes to destroy it. Ruger's enjoyed a decent reputation for years, especially when Bill, Sr. was still alive. But for many of us, the QC issue ruined it. I won't say I've bought my last Ruger, because there are a couple of older ones I'd like to have if I can find good specimens at the right prices, but it's pretty much a certainty I'll never buy another new one. Too much of a crap shoot based on my previous experiences. And even if Dr. Deming himself were to rise from the grave and get the attention of Ruger's management regarding the QC issues and they fixed it so they were truly turning out zero defect products, a lot of us have suffered the "once bitten, twice shy" problem, and we're not going to spend more of our own hard earned money to find out we're now wrong. Worse than that, when asked by prospective buyers about the Rugers we already have, at least some of us will answer honestly, which costs sales.

All in all, Ruger's QC may well be getting "better" but that's a relative term. Compared to "horrible", "bad" is an improvement! My old gunsmith boss liked to say "Ruger's designed a lot of good guns over the years. They just haven't built one yet." That said, I'm in agreement with the OP they need to concentrate on a core business and do the best they can with it rather than continuing to try to be all things to all the market and really doing a half baked job of it. Will they? Ask the CEO...

Rick C

 

[HAWKEYE#28]

THERE REMAINS A "FOREVER" FIX FOR THE CONDITION OF THE PRODUCT BEFORE IT GOES OUT THE DOOR TO THE CONSUMER: THE QUALITY CONTROL INSECTION IS A SEPARATE AND DISTINCT POSITION FUNCTION UNEMCUMBERED BY PRODUCTION STAFF AND MANAGEMENT. BILL JR REMOVED QC AND IT'S STAFF AND HAD FINAL INSPECTION AT THE BUILD STATIONS (AKA THE FOX WATCHING THE HEN HOUSE)......HE NEARLY CRASHED THE BUSINESS WITH THIS COCCA-MAY-MEE DECISION..........PRODUCT TEST IS ANOTHER STAND ALONE FUNCTION."WILL IT WORK? DOES IT WORK? HOW LONG WILL IT WORK?" SADLY, SOME BUSINESS BELIEVES THESE FUNCTIONS ARE TOO EXPENSIVE TO HAVE IN PLACE...........EVENTUALLY, THESE BUSINESSES FAIL........... :roll: :shock:

 

[Prescut]

I'm from Prescott where they make them. I have many.

I can't explain the pain I have felt buying new Rugers. Having to tell friends who work there about it, is worse. It's like mourning a long gone dog that was a tried and true buddy.

I think you guys, who think it's just a small percentage, are as unable to count as I am. Asking Ruger is asking advice from the dealer. We can only guess about change.

Bill had pride with his name on the door. Human nature.
Now, CEO's get money and have a fiduciary responsibility to the stock holders to maximize profits. So that's what he does.

I still love my Rugers. That hasn't changed.

 

[gunzo]

Asking for "consistent quality", whatever that level of quality may be, is not too much to ask. A Kia is a Kia. It's not a Caddy & no realistic person ask it to be. But the buyer would expect proper service from it. And the buyers BIL would expect the same if he bought one. That's not too much to ask.

Blaming the worker is ridiculous!! Workers do as they are instructed or trained to do if they want to keep a job. It doesn't matter if they are screwing on grips, or shoving a rubber washer in the end of a shock absorber. It all falls back to management being responsible for the worker doing their job and the outcome of the final product.

Building this weeks new model or adding variation #27 to an existing model is not going to fix an obvious problem. It will only add to it.

My vote is with the OP.......fix some problems with the stuff they already make, & then come out with latest & the greatest. That simply has to be better in the long run.

 

[NH Rugerman]

If you owned a company that manufactured 2,500,000 products a year, what would the acceptable Warranty cost/product return percentage be to you? 1%, .5% , .25%....

What is the industry standard? Are some returns based on people expecting a custom level of fit and finish with a mass produced product?

Oh, and by the way, your sales growth has been the highest in the industry for 10+ years and your distributors and shareholders are very happy....

I think Ruger doesn't have a QC problem, I think many have an expectation problem....my opinion, nothing more.

 

[Captain America]

...I think Ruger doesn't have a QC problem, I think many have an expectation problem....my opinion, nothing more.

I'm of this opinion also. The six new Rugers I've purchased in the last year have all performed exactly as I hoped they would with zero problems. Everyone is different, we have customers who have "problems" with every car they buy, those cars get traded in and the new owners never seem to have any issues.

 

[gtxmonte]

I am not overly "picky" because for all intents and purposes most Rugers are fairly cheap to buy and I don't expect them to be perfect, actually not even close. But canted barrels, sights falling off, guns that won't actually function, horrific machining, loading gates that the actual round won't pass through, won't shoot within several feet of where pointed and or shotgun patterns, barrels that should have been tossed in the trash is NOT being picky. That's simply expecting to get what you pay for. That's a partial list of my recent findings. Most I can fix myself, because I hate to send anything back, especially if I can fix it. But many aren't like that and also many don't have the experience to fix minor problems. So some can think whatever they want, but if you don't think Ruger has a QC problem you are living under a rock. Even they(Ruger) admit they have a QC problem and are "working on it"

Actually today, I picked up a brand new stainless Blackhawk 357 magnum from my gunsmith. The barrel was canted horribly. No possible way to adjust the sights. But the throats were ok, it had no pinch when the barrel was screwed in frame. So rather than risk them "cranking it down" to try and straighten it, or replacing barrel, I simply had the front sight sweated off and repositioned myself. I let THEM try and "fix" as a last resort

 

[Colonel Daddy]

Just perhaps..............why some only pursue Old Models '72 and earlier 8) :wink:

YUP!! HAWKEYE#28 may have just nailed it! 8)

 

[protoolman]

I don't understand picking up a new gun with a canted.sight or other major problem. Wouldn't you just hand it back to the dealer and say no thanks? Special editions are one thing I guess but if your Stainless blackhawk isn't right just order another one from a different dealer and open the box for inspection prior to purchase or better yet buy off the shelf at the local stocking dealer.

 

[gtxmonte]

It was bought online

 

[Rick Courtright]

If you owned a company that manufactured 2,500,000 products a year, what would the acceptable Warranty cost/product return percentage be to you? 1%, .5% , .25%....

Hi,

Let's use those same numbers in a different way and see what you think:

You live in a city of 2,500,000 people. It has a violent crime rate of 1% per year (no homicides, just acts which require the victim to go to the hospital where their treatment ranges from getting cleaned up, maybe x-rayed or tested other ways, bandaged up, then kept overnight for observation to be released the next day all the way to surgery and at least a few days there. Some come out ok, others are never right.) That's 25,000 violent crimes. Is that an acceptable level, or do you have a crime problem? If we cut it to 0.5%, or 12,500 violent crimes: acceptable now, or do you still have a crime problem? What if we cut that in half again, to 0.25% or 6,250 violent crimes: did your crime problem go away just because that's about the same number most cities your size have?

Think about it--is being at least apprehensive if not downright critical about living, working, maybe just visiting, in your city even at that lowest crime level where "only 1 in 400 people will be victim of a violent crime this year" an "expectation problem?" I think not.

And then, let's ask each of the victims of those crimes if your city has a crime problem. To each of them, the rate's 100%! Sounds quite real to me... just as those thousands of people who got bad Rugers think there's a real problem.

Rick C

 

[DGW1949]

Lean "just in time" manufacturing, the increasing use of stampings, MIM, aluminum, plastic and in general, favoring fluff over substance...processes which are in a constant state of change, poorly thought-out design aspects, improper machining, improper assembly..."cell leaders" who's main job is to beat workers over their head with "numbers" and to keep "the line flowing"...that's the kind of stuff we're actually talking about here...not unlike a race to the bottom really.

Might sound great to the bean counters, and there's no arguing that it's been great for share holders.
Thing is though, when the most-often overheard (positive) comment relative to the reputation of the company you're running is "it's got great customer service"...well, that ought to tell ya something.

DGW

 

[dougader]

Just perhaps..............why some only pursue Old Models '72 and earlier 8) :wink:

When I decided to get a 357 magnum revolver back into my collection I didn't even look at new revolvers. I bought a pre-'73/post flat top OM Blackhawk for $4xx.xx

I spent less money and had zero problems with anything on the gun. Acceptable general use "patina" and that's it. Great revolver with none of the modern headaches associated with recent releases.

 

[gtxmonte]

Lean "just in time" manufacturing, the increasing use of stampings, MIM, aluminum, plastic and in general, favoring fluff over substance...processes which are in a constant state of change, poorly thought-out design aspects, improper machining, improper assembly..."cell leaders" who's main job is to beat workers over their head with "numbers" and to keep "the line flowing"...that's the kind of stuff we're actually talking about here...not unlike a race to the bottom really.

Might sound great to the bean counters, and there's no arguing that it's been great for share holders.
Thing is though, when the most-often overheard (positive) comment relative to the reputation of the company you're running is "it's got great customer service"...well, that ought to tell ya something.

DGW

Winner, winner, chicken dinner right here. When the overwhelming best response you get about a company is "they have great customer service".............well that's VERY telling. That means there is lots of experience with the customer service dept. Many gun companies have great customer service, but that's the very common response with Ruger, meaning it's well known and gets used a lot. Not so long ago Ruger was maybe known for "best gun for the money". Which would you rather be known for?

To ever effect change, people have to be held accountable. This thread is a prime example. Many are way too quick to defend the company they love, rather than expect, or even demand better. Every little problem I have with a Ruger, even though I may not send it back, I take the time to let them know I wasn't happy, what the problem was and that I expect better. More need to do the same. That old saying "squeaky wheel gets the grease applies". We see threads all the time regarding "we asked for this and they built it"................how about as "fans" of the brand we ask that they build some good guns?

I don't expect a $400 Ruger Blackhawk to have the fit and finish of a $2500 Freedom Arms. What I DO expect is to be able to get a shell through the loading gate, the sight or barrel on the gun reasonably straight. To not look like it was machined with a hatchet and the parts to stay attached to the pistol when you shoot it. Barrels that don't look like the surface of the moon inside and an action that doesn't feel like it's full of rocks. None of those items are TOO much to ask from your $400 gun